The Dean Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Marv pissed away a lot of good will in 2006 + 2007... So many bad moves and the high character BS that no one but the most feeble-minded of Bills fans bought. Yet the Bills are far better off than when he took over. He SUCKS! I wonder why the good will never left Parcells, even though he totally flopped as a HC in Dallas...with a talented team. (.531 winning percentage, 6-10, 9-7, 9-7, his last three years with the team). Joe Gibbs must have zero good will left. His second stint in DCwas a disaster. Please, take that clap-trap somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Yet the Bills are far better off than when he took over. He SUCKS! I wonder why the good will never left Parcells, even though he totally flopped as a HC in Dallas...with a talented team. (.531 winning percentage, 6-10, 9-7, 9-7, his last three years with the team). Joe Gibbs must have zero good will left. His second stint in DCwas a disaster. Please, take that clap-trap somewhere else. The Bills were mediocre before Marv came back, and they were still mediocre after he left. I don't fully blame Marv though, he was only the figurehead who walked into a big mess... but perception is reality. Parcells and Gibbs have multiple Super Bowl championships on their resume, while Marv has none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 The Bills were mediocre before Marv came back, and they were still mediocre after he left. I don't fully blame Marv though, he was only the figurehead who walked into a big mess... but perception is reality. Parcells and Gibbs have multiple Super Bowl championships on their resume, while Marv has none. The Bills were far less than mediocre, were aging and on the way down. Marv stopped the bleading, got the team younger, and they have been getting progressively better, from a talent perspective. The coach, of course, is another issue entirely. Marv did something no other NFL coach has done, or likely will do. He won 4 consecutive Conference championships. Once he lost a SB with the most talent, the other times, his teams were overmatched. If anything, Marv's rep has gotten better, over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Saban had a chance to coach in the SB , but he quit the Bills and Joe Collier coached them against KC. That loss put KC in the SB, not the Bills. Again, I thought Saban was great but he walked out on the Bills twice. Wilson was a meddler back them and probably still is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 The Bills were far less than mediocre, were aging and on the way down. Marv stopped the bleading, got the team younger, and they have been getting progressively better, from a talent perspective. They are still clearly near the bottom of the league talent-wise, just as after 2005. Only now they are saddled with players drafted to fit a loser defensive scheme and who will probably suck even more after this year once the new regime finally installs a real D. Marv did something no other NFL coach has done, or likely will do. He won 4 consecutive Conference championships. Once he lost a SB with the most talent, the other times, his teams were overmatched. If anything, Marv's rep has gotten better, over the years. Until he came back in 2006. And IMO it will only look worse when Jauron is gone after this year and the team gets blown up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 The Bills were mediocre before Marv came back, and they were still mediocre after he left. I don't fully blame Marv though, he was only the figurehead who walked into a big mess... but perception is reality. Parcells and Gibbs have multiple Super Bowl championships on their resume, while Marv has none. Actually, they weren't mediocre when he arrived. The Bills of the last half of the 2005 season will go down as one of the worst units ever. They were dispirited, weak, fractious, and - most importantly - truly bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Actually, they weren't mediocre when he arrived. The Bills of the last half of the 2005 season will go down as one of the worst units ever. They were dispirited, weak, fractious, and - most importantly - truly bad.Even with one less win, they still couldn't touch 2003 for being worst ever. My point is after 3 years, they should be much further along than they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Even with one less win, they still couldn't touch 2003 for being worst ever. My point is after 3 years, they should be much further along than they are now. Worst ever? Ever ?!? Vince Ferragamo says hi ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Even with one less win, they still couldn't touch 2003 for being worst ever. The more you post, in this thread, the stupider it gets, Rico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 OK, but 'left' they did. Knox to the never-winning Seahawks, Butler to the also-ran Chargers, Polian to the terrible Colts and Mularky to the soon to be 1-15 Dolphins. My point it is that we won league titles with Sweet Lou. Upon his return, he ressurected the franchise and took it back to the playoffs. Like Jauron, the players loved playing for him. Unlike Jauron, they won. The Ralph issues should be put aside and Saban should be on the WOF. R.I.P. RIP Lou... Now, let's not rewrite history to suit our point of view. "Upon his return, he resurrected the franchise and took it back to the playoffs". 1972 (4-9-1) marked a improvement over the previous 1-13 bills of 1971, 1973 & 1974 both season at 9-5 with a playoff loss to Pittsburgh. 1975 marked a high water mark for the Bills offensively up to this time, with very successful running attacks (OJ & Braxton) and passing attacks, yet defense was weak and we finished 8-6. 1976 began with two losses, then two wins, then a loss. Then Saban up and quit. A 2-3 start that saw our Bills lose the next 9 games under Jim Ringo. Saban quit....simply quit....and the rest of his life, despite whatever gifts he possessed, he was nothing more than a quitter. Yes, the Bills did get to the playoffs once under Saban, but that was it. The year he quit, the Bills were miserable. Who can ever forget the Thanskgiving game against the Lions in which OJ ran for the then record 273 yards. We lost. Gary, miracle man Marangi has a lousy 15 yards net passing (Fergie was hurt). Saban ran from the Bills, and I too never forgave him for it. Saban was the quintessential quitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 The more you post, in this thread, the stupider it gets, Rico. http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?s=&am...t&p=1370902 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?s=&am...t&p=1370902 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Drane Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Wilson was a meddler back them and probably still is. That was the jist of it back then. Ralph was very much bottom line back then and had little mercy. I have some great stories from those years. A certain Hall of Famer type was so po'd at the lack of player support from Ralph that he would threaten to sit out games due to "injury" unless a few extra C-notes were handed over an hour before kickoff. OJ credits Saban for making him the player that he was. He said he would have been the Ryan Leaf of that era if Saban didn't come in and turn things around. That team under Saban was very tight, and have done their best to stick together over the years. Whether it is for stadium ceremonies, or poor Bob Chandler and then Ferguie....you can see the love those guys have for each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patfitz Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 I certainly don't disagree with you about the way the game changed, nor do I discount what several others have suggested that by quitting the Bills tiwce not once but twice is enough to turn off many Bills loyalists. As someone who felt the pains of Joe Collier and John Rauch, Kay Stephenson etc. I can only wonder if we will ever see the likes of a Lou Saban again as Bills' Head Coach. The point I was attempting to make is that if given the hypothetical choice of taking a team from good to great I would opt for Saban over Levy hands down. If you want someone to hold the fort for the long run, undoubtedly Marv is your guy, on the other hand if it's now or never I will take my chances with Lou Saban. This is not to suggest Saban was without character flaws or a better person or a player's coach like Marv. It simoly means that he was able to do what few others have done, even if it was just a one time occurence. The same argument could be made for Parcells, Bellicheck, Ditka, etc. and they were a second and third generation compared to Lou Saban. Would Saban have trumped Lombardi? I can only imagine, yet it would have been the ultimate treat to have seen. The game that Levy Coached and the game that Saban coached were very different. Just look at the number of assistant coaches now and the number in the Saban era. Saban was a hands on coach. Levy was an administrator. Both did a great job in Buffalo and both of them need to be on the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 RIP Lou... Now, let's not rewrite history to suit our point of view. "Upon his return, he resurrected the franchise and took it back to the playoffs". 1972 (4-9-1) marked a improvement over the previous 1-13 bills of 1971, 1973 & 1974 both season at 9-5 with a playoff loss to Pittsburgh. 1975 marked a high water mark for the Bills offensively up to this time, with very successful running attacks (OJ & Braxton) and passing attacks, yet defense was weak and we finished 8-6. 1976 began with two losses, then two wins, then a loss. Then Saban up and quit. A 2-3 start that saw our Bills lose the next 9 games under Jim Ringo. Saban quit....simply quit....and the rest of his life, despite whatever gifts he possessed, he was nothing more than a quitter. Yes, the Bills did get to the playoffs once under Saban, but that was it. The year he quit, the Bills were miserable. Who can ever forget the Thanskgiving game against the Lions in which OJ ran for the then record 273 yards. We lost. Gary, miracle man Marangi has a lousy 15 yards net passing (Fergie was hurt). Saban ran from the Bills, and I too never forgave him for it. Saban was the quintessential quitter. Spidey, I'm not re-writing anything. 30-25-1 with a playoff game is, IMO, a ressurection from 9-45-2. As for my point of view; did we win championships with him as head coach? Yes, 2. All other coaches combined: 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Spidey, I'm not re-writing anything. 30-25-1 with a playoff game is, IMO, a ressurection from 9-45-2. As for my point of view; did we win championships with him as head coach? Yes, 2. All other coaches combined: 0 You do know the Bills won FOUR AFC Championship (yes, that's what they are called). AFC Championships are analogous to AFL Championships. Those '64-'65 Bills just got denied a final game (that was rectified after the '66 season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 he was a very very troubled man, but he knew his football. His strength was he understood the basics. The early team was built around very exceptional offensive and defensive lines (and Cookie) and with OJ he knew that a great running back meant nothing without a great offensive line and tight ends and receivers who could block (JD Hill). He probably would have won the superbowl with the Levy teams, but there were demons in the guy and he always found ways to quit or wear out his welcome. That being said he still belongs on the wall. He was last a "coach" at a junior college in Alfred New York. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 You do know the Bills won FOUR AFC Championship (yes, that's what they are called). AFC Championships are analogous to AFL Championships. Those '64-'65 Bills just got denied a final game (that was rectified after the '66 season). What?!? When did that happen?? You say 'analogous', I say 'just another playoff game' towards the ultimate goal: WIN the last game of the season Fine. League Championships separate Saban from the rest. I guess I'm just not gettin' all the hate for the guy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 You do know the Bills won FOUR AFC Championship (yes, that's what they are called). AFC Championships are analogous to AFL Championships. Those '64-'65 Bills just got denied a final game (that was rectified after the '66 season). Lest some forgot, Deano, Marv also had us in the 1988/89 AFC Championship against the Bengals, and we were on our way back to the title game in 1989/90 when this happened... Ronnie Harmon Couple those two seasons with the subsequent 4 consecutive AFC titles, and that's six straight seasons of near total dominance in the AFC, which Marv crafted on the broken ruins of the Kay Stephenson/Hank Bullough fiasco, and back-to-back 2-14 seasons. Anyone who calls Marv's coaching accomplishments "mediocre" is either an idiot, or suffers from amnesia. EDIT: As for Lou, he should have been on The Wall years ago, but to say he would have won at least one Superbowl with Levy's team is saying a lot - like, for starters, that Lou would have stayed with one team for at least 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 What?!? When did that happen?? You say 'analogous', I say 'just another playoff game' towards the ultimate goal: WIN the last game of the season Fine. League Championships separate Saban from the rest. I guess I'm just not gettin' all the hate for the guy.. I love Saban, and agree he should be on the wall. He was a great coach, in his era. Just because I don't think he would be the coach in today's game, that he was then, and simply because I think Levy deserves his due, too, doesn't mean I'm hating on Lou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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