patfitz Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 As someone who followed the Bills since the early 1960's in my humble opinion if Lou Saban were the head coach with the same group of players that Marv Levy had the Bills would have at least one if not more than one Super Bowls. All you have to do is look at what Saban did with the early Bills champions and in his second stint with basically OJ, the Electric Company, Fergie and one of the most underrated Bills' of all time- WR Bob Chandler. Besides his football savy he was by far the most passionate of any of the Bills' HC's and could get the very best of his players. Let's see if DJ can do as well with TO as Lou did with Cookie. Just ask Whitey, Lou lived and died for his teams. It's too bad his name isn't on the Bills Wall of Fame where it rightfully belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 His name definately belongs on the wall. I know it's because of a beef with Ralph, but I'm not sure what that beef is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hansen Forever Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 As someone who followed the Bills since the early 1960's in my humble opinion if Lou Saban were the head coach with the same group of players that Marv Levy had the Bills would have at least one if not more than one Super Bowls. All you have to do is look at what Saban did with the early Bills champions and in his second stint with basically OJ, the Electric Company, Fergie and one of the most underrated Bills' of all time- WR Bob Chandler. Besides his football savy he was by far the most passionate of any of the Bills' HC's and could get the very best of his players. Let's see if DJ can do as well with TO as Lou did with Cookie. Just ask Whitey, Lou lived and died for his teams. It's too bad his name isn't on the Bills Wall of Fame where it rightfully belongs. I couldn't have said it better! Saban would have taken home the Lombardi at least once had he been around in the late 80's. He could motivate people, and we wouldn't have to sit in horror as Thurman forgot his helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Lou Saban had several chances to make it to Superbowl with multiple teams. Right now we are hearing only the positive about the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 No disrespect to Saban, but, as G. Host said, he never won a Super Bowl in the NFL. He quit on the Bills and Broncos, in the middle of awful seasons. Keep in mind, he won two AFL Championships, in what was, an alternative pro football leauge, to the NFL. There were 8 teams, comprised of some stars, granted, and a lot of guys who couldn't make it in the NFL. Marv won titles in the CFL, with Montreal. Shouldn't that count? No? Get my point? Give Levy some respect. I don't know what evidence anyone has to indicate that Saban would have been any more successful with the Bills of the 80's and 90's as Marv was. I can tell you, Saban's bull headed personality would have likely alienated plenty of modern era players, and forget about Saban letting his OC coach, or his QB call his own plays. I do agree, Saban belongs on the Bills Wall of Fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 No disrespect to Saban, but, as G. Host said, he never won a Super Bowl in the NFL. He quit on the Bills and Broncos, in the middle of awful seasons. Keep in mind, he won two AFL Championships, in what was, an alternative pro football leauge, to the NFL. There were 8 teams, comprised of some stars, granted, and a lot of guys who couldn't make it in the NFL. Marv won titles in the CFL, with Montreal. Shouldn't that count? No? Get my point? Give Levy some respect. I don't know what evidence anyone has to indicate that Saban would have been any more successful with the Bills of the 80's and 90's as Marv was. I can tell you, Saban's bull headed personality would have likely alienated plenty of modern era players, and forget about Saban letting his OC coach, or his QB call his own plays. I do agree, Saban belongs on the Bills Wall of Fame. The game that Levy Coached and the game that Saban coached were very different. Just look at the number of assistant coaches now and the number in the Saban era. Saban was a hands on coach. Levy was an administrator. Both did a great job in Buffalo and both of them need to be on the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 No disrespect to Saban, but, as G. Host said, he never won a Super Bowl in the NFL. He quit on the Bills and Broncos, in the middle of awful seasons. Keep in mind, he won two AFL Championships, in what was, an alternative pro football leauge, to the NFL. There were 8 teams, comprised of some stars, granted, and a lot of guys who couldn't make it in the NFL. Marv won titles in the CFL, with Montreal. Shouldn't that count? No? Get my point? Give Levy some respect. I don't know what evidence anyone has to indicate that Saban would have been any more successful with the Bills of the 80's and 90's as Marv was. I can tell you, Saban's bull headed personality would have likely alienated plenty of modern era players, and forget about Saban letting his OC coach, or his QB call his own plays. I do agree, Saban belongs on the Bills Wall of Fame. OK, I'll bite. Not the 80-90's Bills, but the 1964 Bills. It was an off year for Lombardi's Packers which offered a rare window for any other NFL team to step up and steal a championship. The fortunate recipient of this were the Cleveland Browns -less of the O. Graham monsters, they featured ONE sure-fire threat: some guy named after the team.. The Bills '64 unit was absolutely solid. Outstanding defense -by ANY standard, equally powerful running game and yes, the best special teams in pro football. Lou had a short leash on QB play, fostering the Kemp/Lamonica debate, but that was the only unsure aspect of the team. He went solely with Kemp late in the season and -as we all know- was the first Bill carried off the field on teammates shoulders. I firmly believe we'd have held JB in check and would have won a Super Bowl, had there been one to play for. The '65 team had to overcome many injuries to repeat but IMO, weren't as overall impressive as Lou's first champion team. Flame away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 As someone who followed the Bills since the early 1960's in my humble opinion if Lou Saban were the head coach with the same group of players that Marv Levy had the Bills would have at least one if not more than one Super Bowls. All you have to do is look at what Saban did with the early Bills champions and in his second stint with basically OJ, the Electric Company, Fergie and one of the most underrated Bills' of all time- WR Bob Chandler. Besides his football savy he was by far the most passionate of any of the Bills' HC's and could get the very best of his players. Let's see if DJ can do as well with TO as Lou did with Cookie. Just ask Whitey, Lou lived and died for his teams. It's too bad his name isn't on the Bills Wall of Fame where it rightfully belongs. Saban had a chance to coach in the SB , but he quit the Bills and Joe Collier coached them against KC. That loss put KC in the SB, not the Bills. Again, I thought Saban was great but he walked out on the Bills twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Saban had a chance to coach in the SB , but he quit the Bills and Joe Collier coached them against KC. That loss put KC in the SB, not the Bills. Again, I thought Saban was great but he walked out on the Bills twice. As did Knox, Polian, Butler and Mularky.. There's a trend here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 As did Knox, Polian, Butler and Mularky.. There's a trend here. Unfortunately, yes there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 As did Knox, Polian, Butler and Mularky.. There's a trend here. Actually though, all of those guys at least quit after a season. Lou quit on both the Bills, and Broncos, Bobby Petrino style, in the middle of a season. As I recall, also, Butler and Knox just chose not to re-sign with Ralph, they lived out their contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Actually though, all of those guys at least quit after a season. Lou quit on both the Bills, and Broncos, Bobby Petrino style, in the middle of a season. As I recall, also, Butler and Knox just chose not to re-sign with Ralph, they lived out their contracts. OK, but 'left' they did. Knox to the never-winning Seahawks, Butler to the also-ran Chargers, Polian to the terrible Colts and Mularky to the soon to be 1-15 Dolphins. My point it is that we won league titles with Sweet Lou. Upon his return, he ressurected the franchise and took it back to the playoffs. Like Jauron, the players loved playing for him. Unlike Jauron, they won. The Ralph issues should be put aside and Saban should be on the WOF. R.I.P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haven Moses Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 If you believe what Marlin Briscoe says about Saban, no way Bruce Smith, Biscuit, or Thurman could have played for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Actually though, all of those guys at least quit after a season. Lou quit on both the Bills, and Broncos, Bobby Petrino style, in the middle of a season. As I recall, also, Butler and Knox just chose not to re-sign with Ralph, they lived out their contracts. Saban was hired by the college I went to (after I had left) and quit before they even played one game. If I remember correctly, he quit one week before their first game. So in my eyes, based on his history, he'll always be a quitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 As did Knox, Polian, Butler and Mularky.. There's a trend here. Polian did not leave by his own choice. Add: Polian didn't go directly to the Colts, either. He spent a year working for the league before joining the expansion franchise in Carolina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 For the record, Lou coached in the NFL ten years, after the SB was established. He never sniffed it. In fact, in his last ten years, his teams went to the playoffs ONCE...and lost the first game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 OK, but 'left' they did. Knox to the never-winning Seahawks, Butler to the also-ran Chargers, Polian to the terrible Colts and Mularky to the soon to be 1-15 Dolphins. My point it is that we won league titles with Sweet Lou. Upon his return, he ressurected the franchise and took it back to the playoffs. Like Jauron, the players loved playing for him. Unlike Jauron, they won. The Ralph issues should be put aside and Saban should be on the WOF. R.I.P. I am not setting out to discredit Lou Saban. I think it is absurd that he is not on the Bills Wall of Fame. But, it seems people are needing to go out of their way to discredit Marv Levy, to show support for Saban. To me, the impact the two men had on the Buffalo Bills franchise is undeniable. But, to say that Saban could have won a Super Bowl (the original thesis of this thread) with the talent that Levy had on his roster is pretty suspect. As The Dean as pointed out, the role of the head coach, in the 1960's and 1970's is far different than it was in the 1990's and 2000's. Saban may have stood out amongst his peers, but so too did Levy. Marv may not have been the greatest X's and O's guy, but he had the right personality to get along with a meddling owner, a GM with a hot temper, and some very large sized egos. Marv put together a staff of coaches, whom he let coach, for better (Ted Marciabroda) or worse (Walt Corey). We have seem how Super Bowl participating teams often fall off the NFL map the following year... Marv's players baught whatever he was selling, even though, it was clear, year in year out, they were one of the best teams in the NFL, not the very best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Saban was hired by the college I went to (after I had left) and quit before they even played one game. If I remember correctly, he quit one week before their first game. So in my eyes, based on his history, he'll always be a quitter. Yes, and he walked out on the Broncos, mid way through a disasterous 1971 season, freeing him up to return to the Bills in 1972. I think he moved to the Broncos front office for the rest of that season. To be fair to Lou, I don't really know what the circumstances were in Denver (maybe he felt it was better for the team if he was gone, or maybe the owner was leading him that way, or maybe it was health related), but the guy did sort of have a history of having a slow burning fuse, and normally quit before he was fired... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) I am not setting out to discredit Lou Saban. I think it is absurd that he is not on the Bills Wall of Fame. But, it seems people are needing to go out of their way to discredit Marv Levy, to show support for Saban. To me, the impact the two men had on the Buffalo Bills franchise is undeniable. But, to say that Saban could have won a Super Bowl (the original thesis of this thread) with the talent that Levy had on his roster is pretty suspect. As The Dean as pointed out, the role of the head coach, in the 1960's and 1970's is far different than it was in the 1990's and 2000's. Saban may have stood out amongst his peers, but so too did Levy. Marv may not have been the greatest X's and O's guy, but he had the right personality to get along with a meddling owner, a GM with a hot temper, and some very large sized egos. Marv put together a staff of coaches, whom he let coach, for better (Ted Marciabroda) or worse (Walt Corey). We have seem how Super Bowl participating teams often fall off the NFL map the following year... Marv's players baught whatever he was selling, even though, it was clear, year in year out, they were one of the best teams in the NFL, not the very best.If Lou had passed in say 2004, I don't think you would see this to be the case so much... but unfortunately Marv pissed away a lot of good will in 2006 + 2007, especially looking back now in retrospect. Even though he was only a figure-head & most that happened really wasn't his fault, he should've told Ralph NO. So many bad moves and the high character BS that no one but the most feeble-minded of Bills fans (eg. The Dean) bought. ETA: (eg. The Dean) Edited March 31, 2009 by Rico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 OK, I'll bite. Not the 80-90's Bills, but the 1964 Bills. It was an off year for Lombardi's Packers which offered a rare window for any other NFL team to step up and steal a championship. The fortunate recipient of this were the Cleveland Browns -less of the O. Graham monsters, they featured ONE sure-fire threat: some guy named after the team.. The Bills '64 unit was absolutely solid. Outstanding defense -by ANY standard, equally powerful running game and yes, the best special teams in pro football. Lou had a short leash on QB play, fostering the Kemp/Lamonica debate, but that was the only unsure aspect of the team. He went solely with Kemp late in the season and -as we all know- was the first Bill carried off the field on teammates shoulders. I firmly believe we'd have held JB in check and would have won a Super Bowl, had there been one to play for. The '65 team had to overcome many injuries to repeat but IMO, weren't as overall impressive as Lou's first champion team. Flame away. I saw every game that was a beautiful team. They would have given any team any time a run for their money. What a matchup Brown - Gilcrest would have been! Gogolak - Groza Dubenion - Warfield. Kemp - Frank Ryan. The 20th century version of the Battle of Lake Erie. The Bills were three deep everywhere! Lamonica was a much better passer than Kemp but lacked the conservative temperment favored by Saban. The great thing was when Lamonica had to come off the bench he completely changed the tempo of the game. He could run and he could throw it deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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