ans4e64 Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 Jake Grove- the C Parcells signed would be a much better option but what does Parcells know about builidng a football team whoever the Bills sign at this point will not be an upgrade, just filler like for the last 15 years. they need to spend premium picks on the OL Jake Grove? The same guy coming off microfracture knee surgery, and who can't stay healthy or consistent? The guy the Raiders let walk when they already have a terrible line? There's a new one for ya
silvermike Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 With five starters, injuries on the offensive line are pretty inevitable at some point during the season, and to some extent, you're only as good as your 6th offensive linemen. Even with Peters, that's Demetrius Bell, a guy who's never played in a regular season NFL game. With Peters gone, every NFL fan and journalist will have to do some research to figure out who the primary backup will be. Except Pete Prisco, of course. So as scary as it is to look at our potential starting lineup for the fall, just imagine what it will be like when any single one of those guys gets hurt.
BillsVet Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 So as scary as it is to look at our potential starting lineup for the fall, just imagine what it will be like when any single one of those guys gets hurt. The Bills have been fortunate their OL hasn't been injured like other areas of the team were in 07-08. I have no doubt they'll use rookies and untested street FA's to round out their depth on the OL. The idea of Chambers are principle backup is adequate I suppose. But the interior OL is thinner than one-ply TP. If they figure the draft will provide their depth, it's a serious lack of judgment. Bell is a year away from being a player in the NFL, if at all. The remaining non-starters are from the UDFA or street free agent ranks. That lack of experience is disconcerting.
jahnyc Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 Trading Peters will create another gaping hole and the Bills will not receive equivalent value. No one here wants to pay him the money he is seeking, but there is really no choice but to do so. If Peters is traded, left tackle would become the biggest need and the Bills will draft a tackle with their first pick. A rookie LT, Chambers or Bell at LG (or even a rookie) and the new guy at center would be a recipe for disaster, particularly with an injury prone qb. I would suggest that even if Peters agrees to a new deal or does not hold out, LG may be the biggest overall team need. Assuming that Peters is not traded on or before the draft, I can still see the Bills taking a LT prospect with their first pick to hedge their bets (they can play him at LG if Peters stays). I would really like to see the Bills use the first pick on an outside LB such as Cushing or Mathews, and then in the second round take the best OG (i.e., Unger, Mack or Robinson). Starters and upgrades are needed at LG, LB, DE, TE and Safety (maybe DT as well). I would argue that our offseason has once again been about creating new holes and not filling enough of the old holes.
silvermike Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 The Bills have been fortunate their OL hasn't been injured like other areas of the team were in 07-08. I have no doubt they'll use rookies and untested street FA's to round out their depth on the OL. I don't object to Chambers as a backup tackle I think, it's just that it seems we expect him to start out of position in our best-case scenario right now. Worst case, Peters leaves, and he's starting at OT. Hangartner is a solid journeyman and a great signing, but he's not the kind of signing that makes a mediocre OL good. But he was at least an upgrade over Preston. The part of this that boggles my mind is that we replaced Dockery with nobody.
BillsVet Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 I don't object to Chambers as a backup tackle I think, it's just that it seems we expect him to start out of position in our best-case scenario right now. Worst case, Peters leaves, and he's starting at OT. Hangartner is a solid journeyman and a great signing, but he's not the kind of signing that makes a mediocre OL good. But he was at least an upgrade over Preston. The part of this that boggles my mind is that we replaced Dockery with nobody. Chambers is a nice story, but he's not starting caliber on any part of the line IMO. They tried him at guard when Butler went down and he struggled mightily. Expecting him to play an entire season is a smokescreen the front office is laying down. And the same thing goes for Walker playing LT for an entire season. I think a lot of fans think that because he played OK against Seattle that he can handle the role for an entire season. I doubt it. I agree on Hangartner. If he was as in demand, someone would have swooped in and offered him more than Buffalo did. He'll be unspectacular, which is indeed an improvement over Preston or Fowler. Not signing a veteran in UFA demonstrates the Bills are arrogant enough to think a rookie will come in and start right away.
Bill from NYC Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 Whether Peters is here or not, its up to Trent Edwards to become our Kurt Warner, allowing us to become the Cardinals: a high-powered offense, despite a mediocre offensive line. The skill positions are jam-packed with talent, and therefore set up perfectly to emulate Arizona. Peters would absolutely make things easier on him, but whether Peters is here or not, its up to Edwards. I completely agree that it is time for Trent to take the next step. But, let me politely remind you that when Kurt Warner became Kurt Warner his LT was Orlando Pace, who at the time was probably the best LT in the history of football.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 I completely agree that it is time for Trent to take the next step. But, let me politely remind you that when Kurt Warner became Kurt Warner his LT was Orlando Pace, who at the time was probably the best LT in the history of football. Who was his left tackle when he became Kurt Warner again, after the Giants benched him and let him walk, and Whisenhunt thought he'd be better off starting Leinart?
Bill from NYC Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 Who was his left tackle when he became Kurt Warner again, after the Giants benched him and let him walk, and Whisenhunt thought he'd be better off starting Leinart? That would be Mike Gandy, the guy who if one wanted to point fingers, was the biggest reason that the Cards lost the superbowl. Gandy was over-matched and stunk up the field. Warner is an interesting story. Looking at hos 04 stats with the Giants (6 TDs/4 Ints/39 sacks/10 games), one would think that he was done, especially with his history of injuries. He had a few very tough seasons, yet he was able to put it all together last year. I give him a ton of credit, although I still maintain that he played behind the best LT ever while he was developing. Trent otoh is entering his 3rd year. Once again, he needs to improve, but to take away his pro bowl LT and replace him with a journeyman or a fat RT would be a dumb move, one that only the most inept franchise would even consider. What should they do, trade him for a first rounder and draft another safety?
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 If the Bills can't get a deal done with Peters by the 20th trade him on Draft Day! Lazy Fat ass that he is.
PushthePile Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 That would be Mike Gandy, the guy who if one wanted to point fingers, was the biggest reason that the Cards lost the superbowl. Gandy was over-matched and stunk up the field. Warner is an interesting story. Looking at hos 04 stats with the Giants (6 TDs/4 Ints/39 sacks/10 games), one would think that he was done, especially with his history of injuries. He had a few very tough seasons, yet he was able to put it all together last year. I give him a ton of credit, although I still maintain that he played behind the best LT ever while he was developing. Trent otoh is entering his 3rd year. Once again, he needs to improve, but to take away his pro bowl LT and replace him with a journeyman or a fat RT would be a dumb move, one that only the most inept franchise would even consider. What should they do, trade him for a first rounder and draft another safety? The Rams offense was comprised of five future HOF players in their prime and I'd say all of them assisted eachother in development. Would the Rams juggernaut have been less explosive if they had an average LT? Possibly, but I don't think a whole lot different. The Cardinals have an average LT and were plenty explosive last year. Orlando Pace was one of the best to ever play his position and Gandy is a serviceable vet. The difference between the two is in big games, IMO. The Cardinals win the SB last year with Pace. Who is Jason Peters closer too, Pace or Gandy? I'd say he falls somewhere in between. If I had to choose I'd say he would be closer to Gandy, because like others have said Pace could be the best all-time. I'm on the fence about restructuring Peters. Their is no question that the kid is good. Is he highest paid LT in the NFL, good? At this point I would have to say no. Could he be? Maybe. In order for him to be worth the risk, he is going to have to work his way up to top 3-5 status within his contract years. The Bills have to decide if he has the work ethic to go along with the talent. It's impossible for anyone on this board to prove to me, one way or another what type of character/work ethic Peters has. If it weren't for the top of the heap money demands, this would be a no-brainer. Is he worth 10% of our salary? IDK
Bill from NYC Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 The Rams offense was comprised of five future HOF players in their prime and I'd say all of them assisted eachother in development. Would the Rams juggernaut have been less explosive if they had an average LT? Possibly, but I don't think a whole lot different. The Cardinals have an average LT and were plenty explosive last year. Orlando Pace was one of the best to ever play his position and Gandy is a serviceable vet. The difference between the two is in big games, IMO. The Cardinals win the SB last year with Pace. Who is Jason Peters closer too, Pace or Gandy? I'd say he falls somewhere in between. If I had to choose I'd say he would be closer to Gandy, because like others have said Pace could be the best all-time. I'm on the fence about restructuring Peters. Their is no question that the kid is good. Is he highest paid LT in the NFL, good? At this point I would have to say no. Could he be? Maybe. In order for him to be worth the risk, he is going to have to work his way up to top 3-5 status within his contract years. The Bills have to decide if he has the work ethic to go along with the talent. It's impossible for anyone on this board to prove to me, one way or another what type of character/work ethic Peters has. If it weren't for the top of the heap money demands, this would be a no-brainer. Is he worth 10% of our salary? IDK Very good post! Wrt being "explosive," I make the case that yes, a team is more explosive when a qb has no fear of being hit from the blind side. But, what Pace did was more than just making the team explosive. Faulk, who as you say is a future HOFer, was provided truck lanes of running room by Pace. Also, Warner could wait for his wideouts to get open and if that didn't happen, he could hit Faulk in the flat. The key is the time that he had. That team also threw many screens, with Pace charging downfield and killing defenders. Wrt Peters, you are correct. I can't possibly say whether or not he is motivated, but can the Bills as a franchise take a chance? Our OL has sucked for 15 or so years, with only a couple of glimpses of good play. Jason Peters is already the best player on this unit to come along in many years. The Bills are a team that seems to simply not care so much about blocking. We both know where the team historically, as well as Dick Levy in the present allocate their best resources, and this is to the secondary. Peters is only on the team because the Bills are lucky. If we lose Peters, do you see any indication that the Bills would either want to replace him with a top player, or even could if they had the inkling to do so? You see, I for one cannot, thus my stance that Peters should get a new contract and remain a member of the Buffalo Bills.
Mr. WEO Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 Very good post! Wrt being "explosive," I make the case that yes, a team is more explosive when a qb has no fear of being hit from the blind side. But, what Pace did was more than just making the team explosive. Faulk, who as you say is a future HOFer, was provided truck lanes of running room by Pace. Also, Warner could wait for his wideouts to get open and if that didn't happen, he could hit Faulk in the flat. The key is the time that he had. That team also threw many screens, with Pace charging downfield and killing defenders. Wrt Peters, you are correct. I can't possibly say whether or not he is motivated, but can the Bills as a franchise take a chance? Our OL has sucked for 15 or so years, with only a couple of glimpses of good play. Jason Peters is already the best player on this unit to come along in many years. The Bills are a team that seems to simply not care so much about blocking. We both know where the team historically, as well as Dick Levy in the present allocate their best resources, and this is to the secondary. Peters is only on the team because the Bills are lucky. If we lose Peters, do you see any indication that the Bills would either want to replace him with a top player, or even could if they had the inkling to do so? You see, I for one cannot, thus my stance that Peters should get a new contract and remain a member of the Buffalo Bills. Trent will never be "like Warner", so you can stop holding your breath. As for Warner, it's interesting to see that a lot of people here would say that in SL, Warner was in a "QB killing" offense--now his career was "made" by a left tackle. Did Trent feel like he was protected from a blind side hit last season? He didn't look like it. There is far too much value placed on LT, unfortunately---the Cards this year is a perfect example. Warner had a great statistical year and took fewer sacks (on a full schedule basis) with Gandy to his left than when Pace was next to him. So was it the quality of the LT or wasn't it? Same QB, different high powered WRs, different team, different (JAG)LT, essentially the same result. And suggesting that Gandy lost the SB for the Cards is symptomatic of this degree of valuation of the LT. It's crazy. Anyway, Peters is not an every Sunday LT. Saying that the Bills have "no choice" but to pay him 10 or 11 million ignores the fact that he is under contract and will either play or he will hold out.
Bill from NYC Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 There is far too much value placed on LT, unfortunately I am starting to agree with you. Those idiot GMs who take them in the top 5 every year should wake up and follow the Bills role model of drafting defensive backs, gimmick players and small wideouts with their top picks.
Bill from NYC Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 Who needs Peters when you've got TO? And Whitner.
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