Imagine that your starting o-line is stacked as follows

[BuffaloBill]

If Peters does not sign here is what the o-line is likely to look like on opening day (Monday evening) - with likely depth player listed second or third:

 

LT - Bell / Walker (depends on whether the Bills move Walker)/ Draft choice

LG - Chambers / Draft choice

C -Hangartner / Draft Choice

RG - Butler /Draft Choice

RT - Walker /Bell / Draft choice

 

If this is the line then there is no need to go after a pass catching TE in the draft as there will be "max protect" on most plays with the TE staying back to block and the RB chipping somebody then steping down field a bit for the dump off.

 

Does this scenario not make you ill? Time for the Bills to sign Peters - get him into OTA's and camp and move on. The picture of their line is ugly without him. With him in the line up this is how the picture changes:

 

LT - Peters/ Walker (depends on whether the Bills move Walker if Peters is injured)/ Bell

LG - Chambers / Bell

C -Hangartner / Draft Choice

RG - Butler /Draft Choice

RT - Walker /Bell

 

Assuming Chambers plays as well as if not better than Dockery we have an upgraded unit with solid depth if the Bills draft well.

 

TO does not do much good if the line is cobbled together and Edwards has no time to throw. This is not the year to let Peters sit out - sign his deal - let the rest of the line come together, see if you can prove Bell out as quality depth and look at whether keeping Peters at his high salary makes sense after the end of the season.

[BillsNYC]

Pettigrew is supposed to be a stud blocker.

[lets_go_bills]

Peters still has two years left on his deal. I don't anticipate him not being here. It's a matter of when, not if, he'll sign a deal.

 

I don't expect the Bills to address the O-Line in the draft early, their first three picks will be DE, TE, OLB (not necessarily in that order). They may just add some late round O-Lineman for depth.

 

I think our opening day rotation will be:

 

Peters-Chambers-Hangartner-Butler-Walker.

[MississippiBob]

After reading everyone's concern for the O-Line coming up in 2009, I have to ask if anyone has the scoop on the players we already have on our roster?

 

1. C. Denman

2. M. Philip

3. B. Rodd

4. J. Scott

 

Do any of these players represent a viable "back-up" option, or have they been signed as training camp bodies?

[BillsGuyInMalta]

After reading everyone's concern for the O-Line coming up in 2009, I have to ask if anyone has the scoop on the players we already have on our roster?

 

1. C. Denman

2. M. Philip

3. B. Rodd

4. J. Scott

 

Do any of these players represent a viable "back-up" option, or have they been signed as training camp bodies?

Brandon Rodd lives in the apartment below me. He likes playing Halo.

 

Thats all I got.

[billsfan_34]

If Peters does not sign here is what the o-line is likely to look like on opening day (Monday evening) - with likely depth player listed second or third:

 

LT - Bell / Walker (depends on whether the Bills move Walker)/ Draft choice

LG - Chambers / Draft choice

C -Hangartner / Draft Choice

RG - Butler /Draft Choice

RT - Walker /Bell / Draft choice

 

If this is the line then there is no need to go after a pass catching TE in the draft as there will be "max protect" on most plays with the TE staying back to block and the RB chipping somebody then steping down field a bit for the dump off.

 

Does this scenario not make you ill? Time for the Bills to sign Peters - get him into OTA's and camp and move on. The picture of their line is ugly without him. With him in the line up this is how the picture changes:

 

LT - Peters/ Walker (depends on whether the Bills move Walker if Peters is injured)/ Bell

LG - Chambers / Bell

C -Hangartner / Draft Choice

RG - Butler /Draft Choice

RT - Walker /Bell

 

Assuming Chambers plays as well as if not better than Dockery we have an upgraded unit with solid depth if the Bills draft well.

 

TO does not do much good if the line is cobbled together and Edwards has no time to throw. This is not the year to let Peters sit out - sign his deal - let the rest of the line come together, see if you can prove Bell out as quality depth and look at whether keeping Peters at his high salary makes sense after the end of the season.

Are you serious? We dont need a pass catching tight end? A tight end who is a threat in the passing game causes defenses to be more honest and utilize the nickel package more. If not then they can apply more pressure on the O line. Also, a good catching TE can give the QB a nice target to throw to and also expoits the seams of a defense. Every good offense in the NFL has a quality TE who can catch. Even if we have a sh-- line I still would want a threat at TE.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I wouldn't kill myself if the line was as follows:

 

LT- Walker

LG- Unger/Robinson?

C- Hangartner

RG- Butler

RT- Chambers/Bell

 

Its not as good as it would be with Peters, but it seems pretty solid, in my opinion.

[BuffaloBill]

Pettigrew is supposed to be a stud blocker.

 

 

This is the point - if he is not out in pass routes how will the offense be better?

[BuffaloBill]

Are you serious? We dont need a pass catching tight end? A tight end who is a threat in the passing game causes defenses to be more honest and utilize the nickel package more. If not then they can apply more pressure on the O line. Also, a good catching TE can give the QB a nice target to throw to and also expoits the seams of a defense. Every good offense in the NFL has a quality TE who can catch. Even if we have a sh-- line I still would want a threat at TE.

 

 

I guess you missed the point ... I said no need to get a pass catching TE because the line without Peters will require the TE to stay back and block in max protect mode. If so the best route the TE can do is a shoert or dump off scenario. Teams also took this away last year by dropping 7 or 8 into coverage. Trent Edwards never figured out how to beat it.

[Bill from NYC]

I wouldn't kill myself if the line was as follows:

 

LT- Walker

LG- Unger/Robinson?

C- Hangartner

RG- Butler

RT- Chambers/Bell

 

Its not as good as it would be with Peters, but it seems pretty solid, in my opinion.

 

LT - Fat, plodding and out of position

LG - Rookie

C - Unknown

RG - Good when healthy

RT - Journeyman

 

Solid? I am thinking not even close. The season would be over before it starts imo.

[BuffaloBill]

LT - Fat, plodding and out of position

LG - Rookie

C - Unknown

RG - Good when healthy

RT - Journeyman

 

Solid? I am thinking not even close. The season would be over before it starts imo.

 

 

Why is it so hard for people to see this? The Bills need to suck it up and get the Peters deal done. All this excitement caused by TO signing is a pile of Bull chips if the line can't block. Not to forget that the conditions in the Ralph usually take the passing game off the table at least one home game a year (sometimes two) because of precipitation or wind or both.

[Bill from NYC]

Why is it so hard for people to see this? The Bills need to suck it up and get the Peters deal done. All this excitement caused by TO signing is a pile of Bull chips if the line can't block. Not to forget that the conditions in the Ralph usually take the passing game off the table at least one home game a year (sometimes two) because of precipitation or wind or both.

 

Not to single out any one poster, but there is a whole generation of Bills Fans who have never seen a decent draft in terms of bringing in big guys to block and tackle. Most have never seen a solid offensive line. Despite the weather conditions you point out above, Dick Levy goes charging after secondary players, and of course some rbs and wrs.

 

I think that many fans are simply conditioned to thinking that the lines are a moot point. Trust me, if Jauron fields a bad OL and concentrates yet again on safeties and corners in the draft, people will defend him. They always do.

[BillsVet]

LT - Fat, plodding and out of position

LG - Rookie

C - Unknown

RG - Good when healthy

RT - Journeyman

 

Solid? I am thinking not even close. The season would be over before it starts imo.

 

I always find it ironic that one of Donahoe's biggest shortcomings was a failure to build the OL. He went out and signed inferior talent to block for the "name" speciality players he drafted. The same thing's happened with Levy/Brandon. They've drafted no one above the fifth round on the OL, signed an average OT in Walker, and severely overpaid for Dockery. The result is an OL which blows no one away, and which will depend on rookies to keep Edwards off his back in 09. Meanwhile, the guy charged with keeping the blindside clean (and team's best OL) is demonized for wanting a new contract.

 

In 06, both the OL and DL had issues. Three seasons of rebuilding later, both lines still need an infusion of talent. Levy and Brandon had/have little clue what they were/are doing, as exemplified by their rebuilding the OL. First they spent huge dollars on underachievers. Now they're going the cheap route with guys like Hangartner who've never started in the league.

[PushthePile]

This is the point - if he is not out in pass routes how will the offense be better?

If he routinely blocks his man out of the play, the offense is better. Scouts are saying he's the best all around TE in last 5 years. Even if the team has Peters next year, we are still going to need some o-line help. I would rather see the Bills offense rely on Marshawn and Freddie's legs late in games than Trent's passing (even with TO). Pettigrew would go a long way in making this happen, IMO. He is also a very capable target as well. So much is made of his blocking that people just overlook his recieving skills.

[PushthePile]

I always find it ironic that one of Donahoe's biggest shortcomings was a failure to build the OL. He went out and signed inferior talent to block for the "name" speciality players he drafted. The same thing's happened with Levy/Brandon. They've drafted no one above the fifth round on the OL, signed an average OT in Walker, and severely overpaid for Dockery. The result is an OL which blows no one away, and which will depend on rookies to keep Edwards off his back in 09. Meanwhile, the guy charged with keeping the blindside clean (and team's best OL) is demonized for wanting a new contract.

 

In 06, both the OL and DL had issues. Three seasons of rebuilding later, both lines still need an infusion of talent. Levy and Brandon had/have little clue what they were/are doing, as exemplified by their rebuilding the OL. First they spent huge dollars on underachievers. Now they're going the cheap route with guys like Hangartner who've never started in the league.

Most teams in this league are constantly looking to fix their lines. Only a few teams in the NFL can say they have had consistently good play on both. The Bills fit in the pile with the teams that haven't had continuity. They haven't been as inept on both lines as you say. I'm right there with you in terms of the team needing upgrades now, but you make it seem like no effort has ever been made. Dockery and Walker weren't cheap either. Mike Williams was a bust. Various middle of the road OL FAs haven't worked out. The Bills have hits and misses, just like every other team out there. This should be a draft with emphasis on the lines and I think it will.

[BuffaloBill]

If he routinely blocks his man out of the play, the offense is better. Scouts are saying he's the best all around TE in last 5 years. Even if the team has Peters next year, we are still going to need some o-line help. I would rather see the Bills offense rely on Marshawn and Freddie's legs late in games than Trent's passing (even with TO). Pettigrew would go a long way in making this happen, IMO. He is also a very capable target as well. So much is made of his blocking that people just overlook his recieving skills.

 

 

Blocking TE's have not been the problem ... a blocking line that allows a good route running TE has been. All of this chatter about Tony G or Pettigrew or Kauffman is not worth the internet page they appear on if the lince can't block. In spite of the fact that many want to maqke him into a posterchild Jason Peters can block and well. The point is that there are already enough quetion marks on the line. The Bills do not need to create another by failing to sign Peters to a deal that any other team in the league would gladly sign him to.

[PushthePile]

Blocking TE's have not been the problem ... a blocking line that allows a good route running TE has been. All of this chatter about Tony G or Pettigrew or Kauffman is not worth the internet page they appear on if the lince can't block. In spite of the fact that many want to maqke him into a posterchild Jason Peters can block and well. The point is that there are already enough quetion marks on the line. The Bills do not need to create another by failing to sign Peters to a deal that any other team in the league would gladly sign him to.

I agree that the team should continue to try and sign Peters. I'm just a big fan of Pettigrew and think he could help this team alot. I have no problem with a TE who stays home mostly, just as long as he can move the chains once in awhile. That is what we haven't had in here in a long time. On a side note, I think Royal's blocking was a little overrated as well. He was a better blocker than reciever but not really dominant in my estimation.

[Bill from NYC]

The Bills fit in the pile with the teams that haven't had continuity. They haven't been as inept on both lines as you say.

 

I respectfully disagree. Please consider this.....when have you felt confident about the Bills making a crucial first down on 3rd and short? Or, their defense stopping their opponents consistently on 3rd and long?

I make the case that great defensive linemen do not need a great secondary. It helps, but the quickest and most efficient way to stop a football team is to out muscle them. On offense, a dominant OL is able to provide openings for not so great running backs. But, can a great back be expected to gain big yardage with sub-par blocking? I think not.

 

Toss in adverse weather conditions to the above and it becomes clear that the Bills were improperly built. Now, after all of those early round defensive backs, some still say that we are thin at corner. Why? Because we lost an undrafted free agent.

[ans4e64]

I always find it ironic that one of Donahoe's biggest shortcomings was a failure to build the OL. He went out and signed inferior talent to block for the "name" speciality players he drafted. The same thing's happened with Levy/Brandon. They've drafted no one above the fifth round on the OL, signed an average OT in Walker, and severely overpaid for Dockery. The result is an OL which blows no one away, and which will depend on rookies to keep Edwards off his back in 09. Meanwhile, the guy charged with keeping the blindside clean (and team's best OL) is demonized for wanting a new contract.

 

In 06, both the OL and DL had issues. Three seasons of rebuilding later, both lines still need an infusion of talent. Levy and Brandon had/have little clue what they were/are doing, as exemplified by their rebuilding the OL. First they spent huge dollars on underachievers. Now they're going the cheap route with guys like Hangartner who've never started in the league.

 

Not to be picky, but he HAS started 27 games in the NFL.

[spartacus]

Most teams in this league are constantly looking to fix their lines. Only a few teams in the NFL can say they have had consistently good play on both. The Bills fit in the pile with the teams that haven't had continuity. They haven't been as inept on both lines as you say. I'm right there with you in terms of the team needing upgrades now, but you make it seem like no effort has ever been made. Dockery and Walker weren't cheap either. Mike Williams was a bust. Various middle of the road OL FAs haven't worked out. The Bills have hits and misses, just like every other team out there. This should be a draft with emphasis on the lines and I think it will.

 

The Bills have not seriously upgraded the OL in 15 years.

 

Good teams build their OL thru the draft.

 

Dick Levy has not spent a draft pick better than a 5th rounder on the OL under his watch.

 

For the last 11 years, the Bills brain trust has spent all of 4 draft picks in the top 4 rounds (4 out of 48 picks)on the OL

 

 

they have brought in numerous free agents who they sold as solid upgrades, but who were nothing more than castoffs and re-treads worse than the garbage they were replacing.

 

Carolina needed to get better at C because their 5th round flyer on Hangaratner was not good enough. They spent a 2nd round pick on a real NFL caliber C and let Hangartner go to the Bills - who sell him to their fans as a big upgrade. He's a versatle backup who can't handle big nose tackles - as proven to the Carolina coaching staff by his being abused by Kris Jenkins for 3 years.

 

Next - they voluntarily cut their LG before and without any hope of replacing him with an upgrade. Stupid and shortsighted.

 

Worse- they refuse to extend the one guy on the OL with ProBowl talent and risk another season of distractions for no good reason.

 

All of those skill position players will be wasted without an OL.

 

Although not his fault, TO will totally destroy Trent's confidence be blasting him for not getting the ball down the field. Hard to throw from your back.