spartacus Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 Hey Spartacus. I'm gonna (for what reason I have no idea) give him/them the benefit of the doubt. However the best person you could compare Hangartner to is Duke Preston. They were both selected in the 2005 Draft, Preston in the 4th round, Hangartner in the 5th. And both can play all three interior line positions. So worst case, we shuffled the cards and have an equivalent player. Best case is that he's an upgrade. Boy this finger crossing is getting old. no - worst case the Bills again are going to blow a golden opportunity to UPGRADE the C position with one of the stud C in the draft. but instead the Bills will delude themselves that a castoff is the answer at C and doom the OL to further ineptness Preston sucked - and hangartner has already proven he can't handle AFC East nose tackles. another step in the wrong direction for Dick Levy not to mention the LG is still a gaping hole and will probably be all year when they try to use Chambers there
Pete Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 no - worst case the Bills again are going to blow a golden opportunity to UPGRADE the C position with one of the stud C in the draft. but instead the Bills will delude themselves that a castoff is the answer at C and doom the OL to further ineptness Preston sucked - and hangartner has already proven he can't handle AFC East nose tackles. another step in the wrong direction for Dick Levy not to mention the LG is still a gaping hole and will probably be all year when they try to use Chambers there who are the stud C's in the draft? I am not sold on Mack
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 29, 2009 Author Posted March 29, 2009 no - worst case the Bills again are going to blow a golden opportunity to UPGRADE the C position with one of the stud C in the draft. but instead the Bills will delude themselves that a castoff is the answer at C and doom the OL to further ineptness Preston sucked - and hangartner has already proven he can't handle AFC East nose tackles. another step in the wrong direction for Dick Levy not to mention the LG is still a gaping hole and will probably be all year when they try to use Chambers there Spartacus, I agree with 90% of what you write. As I said, it's too early to say. You can choose to give the benefit of the doubt or choose not to. However in Hangartner they have a guy who's played hundreds of downs in the NFL and it's captured on game film. To a lesser degree, Chambers also. Also on a technicality, Hangartner hasn't proven anything one way or the other regarding AFC East nose tackles. Mack, Unger, and Wood have not played a down in the NFL yet. I know our talent evaluation record on John Guy's side hasn't been stellar but it's too early to speak in absolutes right now IMO.
Crows57 Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 By the way, using the draft trade chart, the Bills overpaid to get Poz. The difference between #43 and #34 is 90 points. Our 3rd round pick, #74 was worth 220 points. So we overpaid by 130 points. Boy they must have really loved Poz. And yes, both the Poz trade and the McCargo trade have not turned out, even though I'm still a Poz fan and think he can still justify the Bills' stupidity in overpaying. If the Bills thought Poz was a mid-first round pick did they 'overpay'? Said another way, if they traded up to pick 25 instead of 34 and gave up that same 3rd rounder and selected Poz did they get a bargain? People are so freakin married to an outdated draft chart it drives me nuts.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 29, 2009 Author Posted March 29, 2009 If the Bills thought Poz was a mid-first round pick did they 'overpay'? Said another way, if they traded up to pick 25 instead of 34 and gave up that same 3rd rounder and selected Poz did they get a bargain? People are so freakin married to an outdated draft chart it drives me nuts. Well, I use it for two reasons: Firstly it is the starting point for discussion amongst NFL teams. It might not be the end point but it is the start point. Secondly, fans like to throw around outlandish trade scenarios which have no basis in reality. So Crow, IMO it is clearly the lesser of two evils.
Lurker Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 and hangartner has already proven he can't handle AFC East nose tackles. Your's, too...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 29, 2009 Author Posted March 29, 2009 One other point on the draft trade chart. It is obsolete. This is because it doesn't take into account the wide disparity in guaranteed money and contracts in general between the very top picks in the first round and the later first round picks. I've actually seen some proposals for new draft charts. PFT did two. Regardless, I like having football discussions that are grounded in a factual context. I understand your one point Crow. If Poz played as well as Patrick Willis for instance, it would pretty much be a moot point. I'm a Poz fan but the fact that he's only an average linebacker at the moment on top of the fact that the Bills gave up too much for the pick makes scrutiny of this trade the proper thing to do.
LynchMob23 Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 I think with respect to Poz, he was played at the middle late at PSU and so here he still was learning. To be honest, he'd probably thrive as an OLB and to get a Mike in this draft to replace him wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. But, because of his rookie injury, I'm not ready to label him anything other than a work in progress to this point.
Recommended Posts