Mike Mayock

[BeastMode54]

I really respect Mayocks input and insight into players. He might not get the actual teams picks right, but his assessment of players seems to be pretty accurate. I just wonder why he has Robert Ayers at the #5 rated prospect OVERALL. I know we have discussed Ayers before, I just don't know what he sees in him to rank him highly. He had one good year, as did Maybin, but I dont think he has near the upside at all. Maybe he means most NFL ready prospects? I don't know.

[H2o]

I really respect Mayocks input and insight into players. He might not get the actual teams picks right, but his assessment of players seems to be pretty accurate. I just wonder why he has Robert Ayers at the #5 rated prospect OVERALL. I know we have discussed Ayers before, I just don't know what he sees in him to rank him highly. He had one good year, as did Maybin, but I dont think he has near the upside at all. Maybe he means most NFL ready prospects? I don't know.

Ayers bought him a bag of that good ish they got out in Tennessee. Some of that "Young Buck" ish. Mayock has been "high" on the guy ever since

 

I kid, I kid.

[C.Biscuit97]

Well for starters, he isn't an one-dimensional end like the others at the top of the draft. There have been reports that coaches at Tennessee dropped the ball in not playing Ayers more in his career. Plus, the fact he plays in the best football conference and owed Andre Smith doesn't hurt either.

 

That said, I'm not a fan at taking that guy at #11. It seems to high to take a guy who hasn't had great production.

[Steely Dan]

I really respect Mayocks input and insight into players. He might not get the actual teams picks right, but his assessment of players seems to be pretty accurate. I just wonder why he has Robert Ayers at the #5 rated prospect OVERALL. I know we have discussed Ayers before, I just don't know what he sees in him to rank him highly. He had one good year, as did Maybin, but I dont think he has near the upside at all. Maybe he means most NFL ready prospects? I don't know.

 

I'm mystified too. Somebody posted a highlight reel of him in another thread and it didn't impress me in the slightest. He's a guy who, at best, should be a mediocre player. He has John McCargo written all over him. JMO

[R!P REVOLUTIONARIES]

I really respect Mayocks input and insight into players. He might not get the actual teams picks right, but his assessment of players seems to be pretty accurate. I just wonder why he has Robert Ayers at the #5 rated prospect OVERALL. I know we have discussed Ayers before, I just don't know what he sees in him to rank him highly. He had one good year, as did Maybin, but I dont think he has near the upside at all. Maybe he means most NFL ready prospects? I don't know.

 

Maybe it's because he gets to see these guys first hand right in front of him.

[Fingon]

because he played LDE in college.

[Fewell733]

I think Mayock has gotten fixated on thinking that most of the top DE's are really OLBs in a 3-4 because of their size. I think he's wrong.

[Lt. Dan's Revenge]

I think Mayock has gotten fixated on thinking that most of the top DE's are really OLBs in a 3-4 because of their size. I think he's wrong.

 

Ayers is not that type of player though, guys like Maybin and Larry English are. Ayers is perfectly suited to play DE in a 4-3 scheme IMO.

[Fewell733]

Ayers is not that type of player though, guys like Maybin and Larry English are. Ayers is perfectly suited to play DE in a 4-3 scheme IMO.

 

that was my point, and why i think he might rate him high on his DE rankings

[2003Contenders]

I think that Mayock may be perhaps overrating him because he is something of a bit of a rarity in this year's draft: a genuine bona fide DE that can play LDE in a 4-3. Mayock sees that as a precious commodity. If we were a team like New England that was set with most of our positions and didn't have needs at TE, OL and LB -- not to mention a real pass rush specialist than can compliment, spell (and eventually replace) Schobel, then I wouldn't mind adding a guy like Ayers to the mix. For example, he would probably eventually make the overpaid Kelsay expendable. If we didn't have those other glaring needs, in fact, Ayers would probably be an enticing choice. I think he will turn out to be a good all around player, but he is not the pass rush specialist that this team needs right now.

[lets_go_bills]

Mayock says he's a late bloomer with a lot of upside. He's also a big and well-rounded DE.

[Lt. Dan's Revenge]

that was my point, and why i think he might rate him high on his DE rankings

 

Sorry, didn't read it as that. I agree, I am starting to like Ayers better than any DE on the board other than Orakpo and MAYBE Everette Brown. I think those two are a toss up at this point.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

This is the video that Steely Dan and I disagree on. If you want to comment on the plays do me a favor and refer to the plays by the numbers below. Not by a new numbering system.

 

Keep in mind that a player is not going to make "the play" every time but rather that each player has "an assignment" on each play. Also keep in mind that when a defender blows past an immobile blocker, that the reason is often times the quickness of the attack elicits the "deer in the headlights" response. Not many defensive players can make blockers look like lawn ornaments.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccuoGx3A6t4

 

 

1) Pass play, lightning-quick inside pass rush past statuesque guard. Ayers whacks the quarterback (you can hear the hit) who dumps off for a short completion.

2) Slomo replay of above.

3) Same, different angle.

4) Run play, unblocked, crashed down the line, buries ball carrier unassisted for one yard loss.

5) Run play, Ayers beats Andre Smith (345 lbs) off the snap pushes him back one yard to set the edge, ball carrier runs inside and is tripped up by pursuit.

6) Run play, Ayers lines up wide, surges inside, meets and plays off the tight end, stops ball carrier for no gain.

7) Pass play, Ayers lines up uncovered blows through the running back block (like a fly on the windshield, you can hear this too), pressures an incompletion.

8) Pass play, lines up at tackle, blows past guard, QB throws ball away to avoid sack.

9) Run play, takes inside angle, spins off guard block and gang tackles ball carrier (5 yard gain).

10) Run play, lines up wide, delayed rush, blows up tight end to set the edge, ball carrier cuts inside and is stopped by pursuit (2 yard gain).

11) Pass play on 1st down, lines up against Andre Smith, blows past him, QB checks down and completes pass under pressure.

12) Run play, destroys tight end and piles on ball carrier, 1 yard loss.

13) Run play, dances around Andre Smith (no contact) and takes inside angle, ball carrier bounces outside for 10 yard gain.

14) Run play to opposite side, no involvement.

15) Run play at Ayers, drives Andre Smith backwards to set the edge, redirects towards sideline in attempt to catch ball carrier who has a full head of steam, ball carrier turns corner on Ayers pursuit for 1st down.

16) Run play, lines up wide, destroys tight end and blows up ball carrier for 2 yard loss.

17) Run play, drives Andre Smith backwards 3 yards to set edge, ball carrier cuts inside, no inside-out pursuit by defense, ball carrier lunges into end zone.

 

Fifteen plays. At times it looks like he has little help. On 11 run plays he could possibly be faulted on two plays (13 and 15) for being overly-aggressive in his assignments. That would be quibbling. One play was away from him. On the other 8 run plays he was excellent.

 

On four pass plays he had 4 pressures.

 

This is a small sample size of plays but I think it shows that he has the ability to be a star in the NFL.

[thebandit27]

Mayock likes him for the following reasons:

 

- He made the most of his limited opportunities on the football field at Tennessee (see: 2008 vs. Alabama)

- His skill set has shown improvement on a year-to-year basis

- He has sufficient burst and short-area quickness to get off the line as a DE

- He dominated every OT in attendance at the Senior Bowl

 

In general, I think one of the toughest positions to grade is DE, because the level of competition at OT changes so dramatically from college to the NFL. As an acquaintance of mine (who's a junior scout for an NFL team) told me: scouts/draft analysts have to delicately balance college production, personal skill set, pro system applicability, and character to come up with a grade. My guess is that Mayock sees enough in the latter 3 criteria to make Ayers his #1 DE and #5 prospect.

 

Hope that helps.

[1billsfan]

The real question is why is everyone so high on Aaron Maybin? He played in an inferior conference and is way too small to play DE in the NFL. Maybin has bust written all over him which is why I think the Bills are so interested in him. Our team needs to get bigger, not smaller. Our team needs a three down DE, not a "specialist" since the best team in the division, the Pats, actually throws the ball on 1st and 2nd downs. That's obviously a crazy notion that the Bills have yet to grasp.

 

Ayers will end up being an all-pro with a team like the Titans or Eagles and the Bills fans will still be wondering why our team continues to get pushed around. This is a mans game...

 

Maybin = boy

Ayers = man

 

That's why Mike Mayock is so high on him.

[thebandit27]

The real question is why is everyone so high on Aaron Maybin? He played in an inferior conference and is way too small to play DE in the NFL. Maybin has bust written all over him which is why I think the Bills are so interested in him. Our team needs to get bigger, not smaller. Our team needs a three down DE, not a "specialist" since the best team in the division, the Pats, actually throws the ball on 1st and 2nd downs. That's obviously a crazy notion that the Bills have yet to grasp.

 

Ayers will end up being an all-pro with a team like the Titans or Eagles and the Bills fans will still be wondering why our team continues to get pushed around. This is a mans game...

 

Maybin = boy

Ayers = man

 

That's why Mike Mayock is so high on him.

 

Wrong. Maybin played the 2008 college season at 237 lbs. He since put on 22 lbs and worked out at his pro day at 259 lbs.

 

For your reference, here's a nice comparison to current NFL DEs:

 

Player Team Weight 2008 Sacks

R. Mathis Ind 245 11.5

D. Howard Phi 260 9

J. Abraham Atl 265 16.5

 

Jason Taylor played at 249 for most of his career, and twice eclipsed 15 sacks in a seaon. It's a little crazy to make it about size, especially when Maybin's junior-year production equaled that of Ayers' entire college career.

 

Don't you think?

[1billsfan]

Wrong. Maybin played the 2008 college season at 237 lbs. He since put on 22 lbs and worked out at his pro day at 259 lbs.

 

For your reference, here's a nice comparison to current NFL DEs:

 

Player Team Weight 2008 Sacks

R. Mathis Ind 245 11.5

D. Howard Phi 260 9

J. Abraham Atl 265 16.5

 

Jason Taylor played at 249 for most of his career, and twice eclipsed 15 sacks in a seaon. It's a little crazy to make it about size, especially when Maybin's junior-year production equaled that of Ayers' entire college career.

 

Don't you think?

 

 

Sorry but I'm not looking for those type of DEs, I'm looking for the next Osi Umenyiora or Justin Tuck. Our defense is chock full of undersized players and that trend needs to stop. Put on a tape of the Giants/Pats Superbowl if you want to see what I'm talking about.

[thebandit27]

Sorry but I'm not looking for those type of DEs, I'm looking for the next Osi Umenyiora or Justin Tuck. Our defense is chock full of undersized players and that trend needs to stop. Put on a tape of the Giants/Pats Superbowl if you want to see what I'm talking about.

 

Oh I see. That's not what you said originally. Your thesis stated that Maybin is too small to play DE in the NFL. My point is: that's definitely not true.

 

If your personal preference is for bigger DEs, that's another matter altogether. I can see why you'd like Tuck and Umenyiora, since they both go about 275. However, to be fair, look at the Superbowls that sandwich the one to which you refer:

 

Last January, I watched a team whose leading pass rushers both go about 240 lbs win the Superbowl. Sure, it's a different scheme, but who ever said that Maybin couldn't play the same position as Woodley or Harrison if put in the right situation?

 

In January of 2007, I watched bookends Dwight Freeney (who's never sniffed 6'0") and Robert Mathis (who's never sniffed 240) take it to Chicago's o-line and win the big one.

 

My overall point is that you don't need big DEs to have a good pass rush. There's a role for every talented player in the NFL, so long as there is a coach willing to devise a system around what a player does well.

[Drew026]

If people(like mcshay and kiper) were putting high grades next to ayers then you wouldn't find it weird that mayock is giving him such a high grade. Ayers didn't put up the stats of Maybin or Brown, but in most defenses in the NFL he'll probably be better equipped then the other ends/backers.

[Fewell733]

Oh I see. That's not what you said originally. Your thesis stated that Maybin is too small to play DE in the NFL. My point is: that's definitely not true.

 

If your personal preference is for bigger DEs, that's another matter altogether. I can see why you'd like Tuck and Umenyiora, since they both go about 275. However, to be fair, look at the Superbowls that sandwich the one to which you refer:

 

While Tuck might be about 275, Schobel had said - when people were questioning why he was so light (mid 240s) - that he had talked to Umenyiora and he had told him he was playing at about the same weight as Schobel despite at what he was listed at.

 

take passrushers listed weights with a grain of salt and don't think that a guy has to legitimately be 270 to play DE in this league. In fact we have two already - Kelsay and Denney are both Ayers' weight and can't rush the passer worth anything despite impressive workout numbers and college production.