Lori Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 I'm guessing the research will show them that. At the prices they charge, and given the Bills lack of production on the field, how do they expect to fill the stadium when they struggle to get 35,000 for an Argo's game? And talking to several people as we walked toward Union Station after the Dolphins game (thank goodness for the Skywalk!), they doubted they'd be back. Of course, the fact that the game could have put someone mainlining caffeine to sleep didn't help. It's no coincidence that the survey suggested the possibility of lower ticket prices for the games that haven't been sold yet (other than to people who purchased the entire eight-game package).
jester43 Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 Sorry, can't provide a link, but I was sent a survey from Rogers since I bought tickets for Toronto, and part of it was asking about pricing because they are trying to get 1 pre-season and 2 regular season games for Toronto in 2010, 2011, and 2012. $99 per seat would be the cheapest each year for those three games, in the upper deck. No discount for pre-season. I SWEAR TO GOD THEY MOVE ANOTHER HOME GAME THERE AND I AM DONE.
BillsVet Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 I got to disagree with your statement about Pittsburgh being a depressed area. They have some core businesses that are recession proof. There is building going on there. The Colts stadium was built by taxpayers who this year will have a $48 million bill to deal with, up from $20 million last year. The Toronto field needs to be replaced before anymore games are played on it. I've heard Pittsburgh described as both down or up. The transition from one type of economy to another can take a considerable amount of time, and with government looking to maintain their spending levels despite decreasing populations, it's hard to effect improvement. Indy has that debt split up over a 10 county area, not just the city of Indianapolis. That debt is more easily digested for that fact. I'd be OK with two regular season games in Toronto next year if that keeps the other six in the Ralph. I think the canadians are crappy fans who sit on their hands the whole game. Of course the bills give them nothing to cheer for so I guess thats fair. this is the way it will go. WNY can't support a winning NFL franchise . the people can't pay the freight and there are only a few businesses that can buy the suites, very important.. If this is true, the proverbial pot is increasingly warrming. Eventually it'll be entirely boiling and Bills fans will be cooked. If there is an option to purchase another game, I think most fans can read between the lines and see where this is going. The PR answer is increasing revenue, but it makes no sense to add games in a lucrative market without looking long term at moving the team to that very market. Of course the company line will be more revenue, but I can't see the addition of another game in Toronto as advantageous to fans who go to the Ralph.
trolls_r_us Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 don't forget: Erie County must approve of any further moving of games, as the leaseholders. I think the state also had to sign off, but I am not sure. The point is that the Bills CANNOT unilaterally decide to move games without the consent of the county. I would say NO to the Bills moving more games if I were the state and county. Time to bring this to a head and settle this thing. What is the true plan?
jax bill backer Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 give it two more years bills are gone just admit it.
The Dean Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 don't forget: Erie County must approve of any further moving of games, as the leaseholders. I think the state also had to sign off, but I am not sure. The point is that the Bills CANNOT unilaterally decide to move games without the consent of the county. I would say NO to the Bills moving more games if I were the state and county. Time to bring this to a head and settle this thing. What is the true plan? I would think the NFL would also need to approve it...if it isn't already an option in the deal, approved by the NFL and Erie County (if they get a say).
LGB Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 don't forget: Erie County must approve of any further moving of games, as the leaseholders. I think the state also had to sign off, but I am not sure. The point is that the Bills CANNOT unilaterally decide to move games without the consent of the county. I would say NO to the Bills moving more games if I were the state and county. Time to bring this to a head and settle this thing. What is the true plan? haha, the Bills seemingly will do whatever they want, including moving...err...playing in Toronto and still get subsidized by over $800,000 a game by western NY taxpayers for each "home" game.
billybob Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 I don't understand what everyone is so upset about- once you set a principle everything else is just a negotiating- you agree to let your wife sleep with another man then you get upset when she wants to increase the frequency? pathetic.
EndZoneCrew Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 give it two more years bills are gone just admit it. ok..I admit it....now what fuktard?
spartacus Posted March 23, 2009 Posted March 23, 2009 In 20 years, it will be 7 games in Toronto, 1 in Buffalo. make that 4-5 years and you will be right on
Kipers Hair Posted March 23, 2009 Posted March 23, 2009 This is a fallacy that has kept Ralph in WNY's good graces for the past ten years. This truth is that owning the Bills has been VERY lucrative for Ralph----he has no stadium debt, no loan debt. "His" stadium sells out nearly all it's games. This business had an operating margin of over $100 million between '04-'07. He just pocketed over $70 million form a dying Rogers last year. Escalating costs?? Those only exist if you are spending to the cap or have a large debt to service. Neither is true with Ralph. The only thing that can hurt him is if fans stop coming to games, but even then, the sheer mass of guaranteed money form the NFL TV rights would keep him in the black. The next guy who owns the Bills will be strapped for sure. But Ralph has the absolute best financial situation in the League. He's printing money while he goes out to congress and to the other owners with his hand in his hat. Sure - he has made very good money, but it could have been twn fold in a more robust market. He did well for the city and region keeping it in WNY, but if you think he owes WNY anything and that he the opportunity income he lost is not substantial (High 8 figures, perhaps 9 figure range), you are a fool.
LGB Posted March 23, 2009 Posted March 23, 2009 I don't understand what everyone is so upset about- once you set a principle everything else is just a negotiating- you agree to let your wife sleep with another man then you get upset when she wants to increase the frequency? pathetic. so Bills fans gave their blessing for the move to Toronto?!? lol Ralph Wilson, has been crying poverty for years...and for years the Bills made a lot of money thanks to their rabid fans. But over the past few seasons the team's small market and antiquated stadium have placed the Bills in the bottom third of revenue of the NFL. The picture is not completely bleak for the Bills bean-counters. Revenue and value has steadily increased even though there hasn't been a whiff of the playoff in 9 years. During those years the Bills value has easily climbed to more than double...going from $326 million in 1999 to $885 million in 2008. Fan support and taxpayer money have been a big part of that, because as everyone knows, it has not been the product on the field.
BillsWatch Posted March 23, 2009 Posted March 23, 2009 Hey, depending on the post (or poster) the Bills are the laughingstock of the league...why not let Canada have another chuckle in their house? Rather ship the posters to Canada. If toxic waste transport covered by free trade agreement? I SWEAR TO GOD THEY MOVE ANOTHER HOME GAME THERE AND I AM DONE. Done using ALL CAPS, posting or going?
Lori Posted March 23, 2009 Posted March 23, 2009 FWIW, this is sounding more and more like the "Bills in Toronto" group went off on its own to commission this survey. The team is not amused. Expect something from them either later tonight -- remember, they're on West Coast time right now -- or tomorrow morning.
The Dean Posted March 23, 2009 Posted March 23, 2009 FWIW, this is sounding more and more like the "Bills in Toronto" group went off on its own to commission this survey. The team is not amused. Expect something from them either later tonight -- remember, they're on West Coast time right now -- or tomorrow morning. I figured the Bills would be pissed off about this. Can't wait to hear what they have to say.
Lori Posted March 23, 2009 Posted March 23, 2009 Adam Benigni just updated his story on wgrz.com with the statement (emphasis mine): "We are aware that there is interest in expanding the Bills in Toronto Series by an additional regular season game in the future. We're also aware that our hosts have conducted a survey as part of their internal process of evaluating whether to propose an expansion of the series. We have an agreement to play one regular season game for the next four seasons. We have no agreement, nor has there ever been one, to play an additional regular season game in Toronto. Any such future agreement would require consultation and the approvals of Erie County, Empire State Development Corporation and the NFL owners." Add: http://www.wgrz.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=65162
The Dean Posted March 23, 2009 Posted March 23, 2009 Adam Benigni just updated his story on wgrz.com with the statement (emphasis mine): ...and there you have it. Thanks, Lo.
Lori Posted March 23, 2009 Posted March 23, 2009 And as I suspected, the link to that pop-up window is now busted, although the one for the two-game package is still there: http://production5.voxco.com/start/logit/S...POPUP_2GAME.htm I'm shocked. Shocked, I say. Of course, because we completely expected this, you can still see a .jpg of the incriminating evidence here on the Wall: http://www.stadiumwall.com/uploads/monthly...-1237672069.jpg
thebug Posted March 23, 2009 Posted March 23, 2009 And as I suspected, the link to that pop-up window is now busted, although the one for the two-game package is still there:http://production5.voxco.com/start/logit/S...POPUP_2GAME.htm I'm shocked. Shocked, I say. Of course, because we completely expected this, you can still see a .jpg of the incriminating evidence here on the Wall: http://www.stadiumwall.com/uploads/monthly...-1237672069.jpg What, you think some phone calls were made?
The Dean Posted March 23, 2009 Posted March 23, 2009 And as I suspected, the link to that pop-up window is now busted, although the one for the two-game package is still there:http://production5.voxco.com/start/logit/S...POPUP_2GAME.htm I'm shocked. Shocked, I say. Of course, because we completely expected this, you can still see a .jpg of the incriminating evidence here on the Wall: http://www.stadiumwall.com/uploads/monthly...-1237672069.jpg Good stuff, Lori. Now, Rogers has every right to ask their subscribers that question, and the wording is straightforward and not misleading, IMO. So, it doesn't look like they did anything wrong here... ...except potentially piss off their business partner (the Bills), if they didn't inform the Bills prior to doing this research. If they didn't know about it, I'm sure the Bills are pissed about being blind-sided by the news coming from fan boards, etc. I mean, someone would have to be stupid...really stupid...Skooby stupid...to not know this would become public information, very quickly.
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