McBeane Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 I doubt he would be taking steroids this close to the draft though. Just think about if he got caught. His career would be over before it started. I mean after all, some people have a great work ethic and are very dedicated to becoming bigger and better athletes. Let's give the guy some credit.
Solomon Grundy Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 I heard he's been hanging out with A-Rod's cousin:)
H2o Posted March 19, 2009 Author Posted March 19, 2009 I doubt he would be taking steroids this close to the draft though. Just think about if he got caught. His career would be over before it started. I mean after all, some people have a great work ethic and are very dedicated to becoming bigger and better athletes. Let's give the guy some credit. Luis Castillo and this was pre-draft because I remember talk of the Bills possibly taking the guy. http://www.boston.com/sports/articles/2005..._took_steroids/
H2o Posted March 19, 2009 Author Posted March 19, 2009 Penn State DE Aaron Maybin reportedly posted a 10'10" broad jump at the Nittany Lions' Pro Day. He also had a 40" vertical. Maybin's broad jump (an explosion test) would have been No. 1 by any non-defensive back at the Combine, and the vertical would've ranked second behind only Conor Barwin (40.5") among linemen. per Rotoworld The results of his bulking up are evident. I also think that this shows he was working on his lower body strength as well. A 10'10" broad jump is outstanding, especially for a DE. And a 40" vertical is pretty sick for a guy 252lbs.
BUFFALOTONE Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 that ain't natural! +1 hate to be a skeptic but adding 25 lbs of muscle while doing a lot of speed drills is pretty close to impossible no matter what you eat. I wont say he is juicing but he is on a string of supplements and not protein or carb shakes.
Leonidas Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 Different stopwatches, maybe, although the final link in that list says 4.78. FWIW, NFLDraftScout is the site used by PFWA members, and supplies the official draft bios to the NFL media site. And Sports Illustrated reported 4.75 ... http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/foot...ders/index.html Okay, well NFL.com didn't report that, and I'm pretty sure they're official: TOP PERFORMERS DEFENSIVE LINEMEN Name Time Sidbury Jr., Lawrence 4.64 Barwin, Connor 4.66 Orakpo, Brian 4.70 Brown, Everette 4.73 Johnson, Michael 4.75 Sulak, Stryker 4.77 Brown, Cody 4.84 Butler, Victor 4.84 Veikune, David 4.87 Gilbert, Jarron 4.87 http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers
Magox Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 FWIW, here's the story those pictures are from. (I read it in the print edition yesterday ...) Maybin's makeover PSU star transforms body to prepare for NFL scouts That's a good find Lori. However, I am a slightly skeptical of some of these athletes that have these pro day workouts that are considerably better than the scouting day combine workouts. I am not sure if teams are able to do this or not, but if possible, If I were a GM and i was seriously considering drafting a player that had a huge jump in their workout numbers, I'd ask the player if he would take a voluntary, discreet drug test, just to make sure. It would make perfect sense to do so, considering a team is investing the success of their organization on such an important decision. If Maybin, took no illegal drugs or supplements, and he did in fact have these workout numbers, then I would have to say, without a doubt, that his stock has risen considerably. I have been on the bandwagon against drafting Maybin, but considering last year's production, 25 lbs of added solid muscle weight, and now his explosive Vertical and broad jump #'s, which in my view is a sign of potential edge rushing explosion, I would have to say that he in my book, would now merit serious consideration for the #11 pick. Without the drug test, if legal, which it should be, if he volunteered, I would be highly skeptical and would rather go another rout.
Leonidas Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 Why has it risen, exactly?? He put on all this weight and ran slow at the combine, so now his stock is higher?? All athletes run faster at their pro-day, it's a known fact. The guy won't be a successful 4-3 DE and we'd be wasting a pick with him.
thewildrabbit Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 Do they have a test for human growth hormone, you know the stuff Barry Bonds and most of the baseball players used to bypass the steroid testing. Seems a tad abnormal for a player to bulk up that quickly and then to suddenly go from a 4.89 (combine) to a 4.59 (pro day), again,I'd rather see Buffalo go with Robert Ayers or Tyson Jackson at DE.But then I put more precedence in stopping the run then just rushing the passer.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 I am not sure if teams are able to do this or not, but if possible, If I were a GM and i was seriously considering drafting a player that had a huge jump in their workout numbers, I'd ask the player if he would take a voluntary, discreet drug test, just to make sure. It would make perfect sense to do so, considering a team is investing the success of their organization on such an important decision. If Maybin, took no illegal drugs or supplements, and he did in fact have these workout numbers, then I would have to say, without a doubt, that his stock has risen considerably. Without the drug test, if legal, which it should be, if he volunteered, I would be highly skeptical and would rather go another rout. Here's an op-ed piece that Florio wrote on ProFootballTalk in the wake of breaking the Bills sign Pat Thomas story (is that official yet?). http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/19/...e-drug-testing/ While reading this article I had the same exact thought as Magox...ask him to submit to a voluntary test. I think there is enough raised eyebrows and concern about the legitimacy of his weight gain that a negative test result would put to rest fears that teams may have about his sudden transformation. If he says no, he's almost hurting himself at this point. He could even do one drug screen and make the results available to all teams for that matter. It would be easier on him than taking multiple screens.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 For those too lazy to read the PFT article, here's an excerpt that answers a lot of questions: "But there’s definitely an opportunity for incoming rookies to use banned substances, if they so choose. All rookies are tested at the Scouting Combine, for banned substances and for recreational drugs like marijuana. Then, they are all subject to testing once they sign their first contract and report for duty, typically in July or early August. Before the Combine in late February and from the completion of the Combine for at least five months, they can do whatever they want, without the chance of the NFL catching them." And this regarding Human Growth Hormone: "The only exception is HGH. Since the NFL doesn’t test for it, any player can use it as long as he isn’t dumb enough to buy it with his credit card over the Internet, or lucky enough not to have his transaction detected after the Internet pharmacy from which he bought the HGH is raided by the feds." And in fact I've read that the reason HGH is not tested for is that no reliable test has been developed yet for HGH.
John from Riverside Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 I am really starting to think we might not take a DE at all in the first......unless Orakapo or Everett Brown fall to us. I think we are going to trade down and depending on what we do in FA might even still take a TE......... THis is becoming a really hard draft to try to predict mostly because we are not doing squat in free agency
Magox Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 Here's an op-ed piece that Florio wrote on ProFootballTalk in the wake of breaking the Bills sign Pat Thomas story (is that official yet?). http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/19/...e-drug-testing/ While reading this article I had the same exact thought as Magox...ask him to submit to a voluntary test. I think there is enough raised eyebrows and concern about the legitimacy of his weight gain that a negative test result would put to rest fears that teams may have about his sudden transformation. If he says no, he's almost hurting himself at this point. He could even do one drug screen and make the results available to all teams for that matter. It would be easier on him than taking multiple screens. Thanks for the link. I absolutely agree with your assesment. If he has nothing to hide, then he should willfuly submit a drug test result to all potential NFL suitors. That way, there is no doubt. I would have to believe that any team would be naive to think that "juicing" himself in some sort of manner isn't a possibility. The jump in #'s are staggering. Not to mention, there were NFL analysts had him dropping in value, some suggested even into the 2nd round. After his, what I thought to be disastrous Combine workout, there is little doubt that he had lots of motivation to better himself in his pro day work out.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 Petition for Trent to spend a couple months in lancaster. Did you see his arms? If nothing else he'd gain durability....
dave mcbride Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 Thanks for the link. I absolutely agree with your assesment. If he has nothing to hide, then he should willfuly submit a drug test result to all potential NFL suitors. That way, there is no doubt. I would have to believe that any team would be naive to think that "juicing" himself in some sort of manner isn't a possibility. The jump in #'s are staggering. Not to mention, there were NFL analysts had him dropping in value, some suggested even into the 2nd round. After his, what I thought to be disastrous Combine workout, there is little doubt that he had lots of motivation to better himself in his pro day work out. People (not you) need to wake up and smell the coffee. There's a reason why big time colleges have 300 pound sophomores on the offensive and defensive lines, and it ain't because they were eating their vitamins and drinking protein shakes in high school. 300 pounds is not natural. Lest anyone has forgotten, there were no 300 pounders in the NFL until juice became widely accessible in the 1980s. Now practically every offensive lineman and DT tips in at over 300 pounds. The NFL sweeps it under the rug because exposing it would mean that the whole house of cards would come crashing down. It's worth noting that HGH also speeds healing (it's what Andy Pettite was nabbed for), and given the chronic injuries that all players in the NFL deal with, I suspect that HGH use is rife. One way to think about it is that if everyone can use it, at least the playing field is equal.
thewildrabbit Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 People (not you) need to wake up and smell the coffee. There's a reason why big time colleges have 300 pound sophomores on the offensive and defensive lines, and it ain't because they were eating their vitamins and drinking protein shakes in high school. 300 pounds is not natural. Lest anyone has forgotten, there were no 300 pounders in the NFL until juice became widely accessible in the 1980s. Now practically every offensive lineman and DT tips in at over 300 pounds. The NFL sweeps it under the rug because exposing it would mean that the whole house of cards would come crashing down. It's worth noting that HGH also speeds healing (it's what Andy Pettite was nabbed for), and given the chronic injuries that all players in the NFL deal with, I suspect that HGH use is rife. One way to think about it is that if everyone can use it, at least the playing field is equal. Tell that to Hank Aaron
Mr. WEO Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 People (not you) need to wake up and smell the coffee. There's a reason why big time colleges have 300 pound sophomores on the offensive and defensive lines, and it ain't because they were eating their vitamins and drinking protein shakes in high school. 300 pounds is not natural. Lest anyone has forgotten, there were no 300 pounders in the NFL until juice became widely accessible in the 1980s. Now practically every offensive lineman and DT tips in at over 300 pounds. The NFL sweeps it under the rug because exposing it would mean that the whole house of cards would come crashing down. It's worth noting that HGH also speeds healing (it's what Andy Pettite was nabbed for), and given the chronic injuries that all players in the NFL deal with, I suspect that HGH use is rife. One way to think about it is that if everyone can use it, at least the playing field is equal. America is much larger than it was back than. Obesity is epidemic. Not true a geeration ago. These O-linemen are not musclebound---most are simply strong but morbidly obese athletes, like Peters, with abnormally high body fat composition. HGH will not add muscle bulk.
dave mcbride Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 America is much larger than it was back than. Obesity is epidemic. Not true a geeration ago. These O-linemen are not musclebound---most are simply strong but morbidly obese athletes, like Peters, with abnormally high body fat composition. HGH will not add muscle bulk. Then how come these guys are significantly stronger and faster than the 275 pounders from yesteryear?
dave mcbride Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 Tell that to Hank Aaron Baseball and football are apples and oranges. Everyone assumes roids and HGH are rife throughout the NFL, but people don't care. Baseball fans prioritize statistics and history, and steroid use f**ks that stuff all up. The only stat that really matters in the NFL is W-L.
Mr. WEO Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 Then how come these guys are significantly stronger and faster than the 275 pounders from yesteryear? Don't know if they are faster. As for stronger, 30-40 years ago, most college athletes stayed all 4 years (they didn't have many options). College for them wasn't spending 8 months a year being catered to by a craven, sport-revenue dependent administration coddling them with state of the art training facilities, all the nutrition they can consume, specialty coaches and trainers, high tech conditioning methods, etc..... This continues, an order of magnitude higher in the NFL. Way back in the day, these guys had to work for a living outside of football.
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