A rational person needs to give props to Peter's agent

[Leonidas]

Doesn't matter. Peters has all the leverage here because the Bills don't have a credible replacement on the roster.

 

Except for the fact that he gave up a league high 11.5 sacks last year and has two years left on his deal. Actually, he has very little leverage. If the Bills are smart they'll sign an LT and get that last bit of leverage and either deal Peters or play hardball.

[Flbillsfan#1]

Good Post Dazzed if a LITTLE LONG. It would have done Pyrite Gal PROUD (where have you been PG?) I think a HUGE POINT you made is the fact that it is about OUR MONEY the players are getting. If the players were not paid so much tickets would be REASONABLY PRICED & BEER would not cost $6 for a cup. It would be NICE if all of us fans could get together & BOYCOTT ALL SPORTS until the Players & Owners bring things back down to earth, but that WILL NEVER HAPPEN

[Dawgg]

Except for the fact that he gave up a league high 11.5 sacks last year and has two years left on his deal. Actually, he has very little leverage. If the Bills are smart they'll sign an LT and get that last bit of leverage and either deal Peters or play hardball.

No disagreements there, but the Bills should have done that last year itself and drafted Clady if they planned to let Peters twist in the wind. Instead, they didn't address the Tackle position and are now caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

If they spend a high draft pick this year on a tackle, then you lose out on a defensive playmaker.

If they pay Peters, they will have to overpay.

If they do nothing, Peters will sit out once again and will put in a subpar effort.

 

Kirk Chambers gives them no leverage whatsoever.

[spartacus]

I disagree. If he didn't hold out and arrived in great shape and played as well as he did in '07, he would be spending his new huge contract money RIGHT NOW.

 

Other than holding out again (and losing gamechecks) there is nothing Peters can do--he is under contract. Very simply, the Bills may decide to give him a new contract, but they do not have to.

 

nonsense

 

The Bills categorically refused to give him a new deal last year.

 

IF he came in as the good trooper, he still would not have even the low ball offer the Bills have on the table. They would be waiting for him to show up at camp to insult him.

 

of course the Bills do not have to give him a new deal.

 

that would be standard practice for an incompetent front office- to piss off and run out of town elite players because they can save a few bucks because his replacement will be paid a lot less (also a lot less talented)

 

they would have been able to sign him last year for $8 mil if they had been proactive.

 

the price keeps going up, the longer they wait

[spartacus]

No disagreements there, but the Bills should have done that last year itself and drafted Clady if they planned to let Peters twist in the wind. Instead, they didn't address the Tackle position and are now caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

If they spend a high draft pick this year on a tackle, then you lose out on a defensive playmaker.

If they pay Peters, they will have to overpay.

If they do nothing, Peters will sit out once again and will put in a subpar effort.

 

Kirk Chambers gives them no leverage whatsoever.

 

This year the top LTs will be gone by the time the Bills pick.

 

LAST year was the year to take Clady or even Branden Albert to fortify the OL and provide some flexibility.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

peters and his brilliant agent have no leverage what so ever he is under contract for 2 more years he can hold out hurt his play again and come crawling back again like last year.

 

also his image will take another hit with a 9 million dollar contract sitting on the table.

 

lastly you assume a lot thinking teams are going to surrender a first round pick and then pay peters top 5 QB money I think not!

Not alot... just ONE !

[Mickey]

I enjoy your posts D&C and appreciate how much thought you put into them.....and usually agree with you on what you have to say. But in regards to this situation I tend to largely disagree.....

 

I agree that the end result looks pretty good for Peters. He most likely will become one of, if not the highest paid OLman in the league. To give props to his agent however, implies that the direction he took was the wisest course of action(or at least wasn't a bad choice).

 

When playing poker, if somebody assumes you are bluffing & therefore calls you.....and then gets lucky on the river.....you don't give them props for their play. This to me is a similar situation.

 

Peters was lucky to make his second pro bowl. He didn't have anywhere near as good a year as 2007 & even though he finished the year closer to that form his overall performance for the year would never have netted him a probowl nod throughout the previous decade. Without that second probowl appearance his 'worth' and 'bargaining power' would have been significantly reduced.

 

The other more important aspect is 'the hold out'.

As you mentioned.....he stuck to his guns and held out. What was the purpose of doing that? He was looking to get himself a massive new extension last season. The hold out was to try and force the Bills into action. This didn't work. Interestingly, had the holdout worked he would have been looking at an overall money level quite a bit less than what he is looking at now(was probably asking for around $9-$10mil/year).

 

What would likely have happened if he didn't hold out?

He could have made it clear that they expect a new deal in 2009(which I'm certain the Bills were already on board with).

Assuming it was his holdout that caused his regression in 2008......he would have played at true all-pro level. This would have not only increased his bargaining power but most likely would have set him up for even more money than he is looking for now.....and I'm sure the negotiations would be quicker and smoother as the Bills would have gotten 2 full seasons to become 'sure' with their purchase.

 

 

Basically the plan of his agent was to 'get more money now'......which didn't work.....and hindered the chance of even greater money in the following year. He is in a good position now despite the holdout.....not because of it.

I think his plan was to try and get Peters out of his contract as soon as possible when the Bills contractually had no obligation to do that at all. The drama last year was worth it to see if they would balk then and if not, to lay the foundation for this year. It was a free roll of the dice. The only real risk was that Peters really was just a flash in the pan and shoulud just capitalize on that before his lack of talent became apparent. I am sure Peters didn't see that as a realisitic risk. He is good, he knows it and that isn't going to change and in the end, talent, in this league, is leverage. Negotiating when the other side has no incentive to do so is a pretty tough position to be in and that was where Peters was last year and would have been this year had it not been for the hold out last year. Now the team has to pay him, trade him or go through another offseason of drama involving one of the best players on the team. There comes a point where the organization's interests are best served by giving him a new deal rather than saving the cash by trying to keep him on the field under his existing contract. Peters had limited leverage and Parker's job was to create more, last year's soap opera did just that.

 

I have always believed that reasonable minds can differ over the best strategy in that very difficult situation but to label Parker's tactics as stupid or moronic etc., is way off. The guy is a successfull agent for a reason and I am sure knows and understands how to handle these situations way better than we do. What made the problem so hard to solve, and still hard to solve, is that both sides have strong positions, usually deals are made when both sides have weaknesses to protect. For Peters, he kind of has nothing to lose at this point, either he gets a new deal or he is stuck being the cheapest pro bowler around. That and his talent gives him some options besides caving. The team's weakness is that they are chronically mediocre and have no better options at LT but on the other hand, they have him under contract still. So there are reasons aplenty for them not to cave either. That is why we had a stand off next year and will again this year unless the team decides it doesn't want to go through that again.

[billsfreak]

If Peter's agent's goal was to either get his client traded or have him hold out again, yea he is doing a pretty good job. He doesn't deserve anywhere close to what he is asking for.

[Leonidas]

No disagreements there, but the Bills should have done that last year itself and drafted Clady if they planned to let Peters twist in the wind. Instead, they didn't address the Tackle position and are now caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

If they spend a high draft pick this year on a tackle, then you lose out on a defensive playmaker.

If they pay Peters, they will have to overpay.

If they do nothing, Peters will sit out once again and will put in a subpar effort.

 

Kirk Chambers gives them no leverage whatsoever.

 

I disagree. I think McKelvin was a great pick and has a much higher ceiling than Greer. He's also a phenomenal returner. If we take Clady we can't take McKelvin. In retrospect we would have been better to handle the contract before Jake Long got his absurd contract from Miami, of course hindsight is 20/20. If Peters had reported earlier I think he would have gotten something done. I think him holding out until a week before the regular season in addition to stinking it up all season really hurt him. And now he has the audacity to ask to be the highest paid offensive lineman in the league? !@#$ him.

 

Kirk Chambers gives them no leverage whatsoever.

 

No arguments there.

 

 

nonsense

 

The Bills categorically refused to give him a new deal last year.

 

IF he came in as the good trooper, he still would not have even the low ball offer the Bills have on the table. They would be waiting for him to show up at camp to insult him.

 

Tell that to Lee Evans.

 

 

they would have been able to sign him last year for $8 mil if they had been proactive.

 

He doesn't deserve $8M/year. He was the worst starting LT in football last year!

 

the price keeps going up, the longer they wait

 

Not necessarily. The only reason he's asking this much is because of Jake Long. If Long busts and gets cut (which I don't expect to happen, FYI) the highest paid lineman is Faneca at $8M/year. That brings his asking price down precipitously.

[The Senator]

Doesn't matter. Peters has all the leverage here because the Bills don't have a credible replacement on the roster.

Yes. Indeed. What's truly amazing is that the Bills haven't realized that they have no other alternative, no choice really, and opened up the bank vault for Almighty Jason!

 

(Peters will, once again, end up with nothing but his dick in his hand.)

[Dawgg]

I disagree. I think McKelvin was a great pick and has a much higher ceiling than Greer. He's also a phenomenal returner. If we take Clady we can't take McKelvin. In retrospect we would have been better to handle the contract before Jake Long got his absurd contract from Miami, of course hindsight is 20/20. If Peters had reported earlier I think he would have gotten something done. I think him holding out until a week before the regular season in addition to stinking it up all season really hurt him. And now he has the audacity to ask to be the highest paid offensive lineman in the league? !@#$ him.

Noting against McKelvin. I love the Leodis pick. That said, the Bills can't have it both ways. Like you said, they should have addressed the situation earlier. Hindsight is not 20/20 in this case. It was very easy to see this coming. He skipped all OTAs and was not returning phone calls from the team, giving them an early indication that he was unhappy with his deal. If they wanted to draft McKelvin, fine... they should have found a starting caliber tackle in the 2nd or 3rd rounds... but they didn't. They continued along the same course with Kirk Chambers. That, in my opinion, gives Peters leverage.

[Dawgg]

Yes. Indeed. What's truly amazing is that the Bills haven't realized that they have no other alternative, no choice really, and opened up the bank vault for Almighty Jason!

What's even more amazing is your adulation for the Bills' front office despite a 10 year playoff draught and 3 straight 7-9 seasons. The Bills have screwed themselves over at this point. As I said earlier, they are stuck with very few alternatives. Not matter what they do, the outcome isn't all that great.

 

(Peters will, once again, end up with nothing but his dick in his hand.)

While you hold Marv's Russ' in your hand.

[DazedandConfused]

I think his plan was to try and get Peters out of his contract as soon as possible when the Bills contractually had no obligation to do that at all. The drama last year was worth it to see if they would balk then and if not, to lay the foundation for this year. It was a free roll of the dice. The only real risk was that Peters really was just a flash in the pan and shoulud just capitalize on that before his lack of talent became apparent. I am sure Peters didn't see that as a realisitic risk. He is good, he knows it and that isn't going to change and in the end, talent, in this league, is leverage. Negotiating when the other side has no incentive to do so is a pretty tough position to be in and that was where Peters was last year and would have been this year had it not been for the hold out last year. Now the team has to pay him, trade him or go through another offseason of drama involving one of the best players on the team. There comes a point where the organization's interests are best served by giving him a new deal rather than saving the cash by trying to keep him on the field under his existing contract. Peters had limited leverage and Parker's job was to create more, last year's soap opera did just that.

 

I have always believed that reasonable minds can differ over the best strategy in that very difficult situation but to label Parker's tactics as stupid or moronic etc., is way off. The guy is a successfull agent for a reason and I am sure knows and understands how to handle these situations way better than we do. What made the problem so hard to solve, and still hard to solve, is that both sides have strong positions, usually deals are made when both sides have weaknesses to protect. For Peters, he kind of has nothing to lose at this point, either he gets a new deal or he is stuck being the cheapest pro bowler around. That and his talent gives him some options besides caving. The team's weakness is that they are chronically mediocre and have no better options at LT but on the other hand, they have him under contract still. So there are reasons aplenty for them not to cave either. That is why we had a stand off next year and will again this year unless the team decides it doesn't want to go through that again.

Thanks for a thoughtful response in keeping this thread going.

 

I think these thoughts are getting to the main point of this dispute which is to find a solution to the quandary you lay out.

 

My sense of why it is actually Peters with the leverage here and our Buffalo Bills who have to get off the dime and make something happen is:

 

For Peters, the downside of no deal occurring is that he has to settle for the "booby" prize of a $4 million annual salary. This is a substantial paper loss in that as a consecutive Pro Bowl participant he is publicly judged by the league to be one of the top LTs in the game (though there are other opinions like the one a couple of posts back that held that Peters is the worst LT in football last year- one wonders why he even pays attention to the NFL when they elect the worst starter at a position to the Pro Bowl).

 

Though not getting this cash is regrettable (I am sure that he is at least miffed over not getting the $11 mil he apparently is asking for or the $8 mill the Bills are offering according to the not always reliable Buffalo Snooze) my sense is that even in the worst case he is crying all the way to the bank.

 

For the Bills though, the potential downside is that if no deal is made to extend Peters they save some bucks with this business decision, but it makes a pretty clear statement that they view the Buffalo Bills as merely a business rather than the obsession that many of us Bills fans have made it.

 

Is there any danger of this whole endeavor alienating the avid fan base? Well apparently not since I am still writing too-lengthy e-mails and a couple of you are still reading them.

 

However, going 0 for the decade in making the playoffs would seem to lay down a real baseline of risk and the simple fact the Bills will not show a 25is Pro Bowl making LT the money begins to confirm the notion this is merely a business.

[The Senator]

What's even more amazing is your adulation for the Bills' front office despite a 10 year playoff draught and 3 straight 7-9 seasons. The Bills have screwed themselves over at this point. As I said earlier, they are stuck with very few alternatives. Not matter what they do, the outcome isn't all that great.

 

 

While you hold Marv's Russ' in your hand.

thanks for the personal attack, dawwwwwggg dickwad.

[PromoTheRobot]

Peter's agent counts on front office people to wet themselves like many on this forum do, especially when he is in a weak position. In fact his only leverage is to damage the team which already casts a pall on the negotiation. Add to that his client's behavior and subsequent poor performance, despite his pro bowl vote last season, and you have an extremely bitter pill to swallow with no guarentee of getting Peters best even if you do cave to his demands.

 

The Peters fanboys point to his rep and ignore his actual performance. They excuse his selfish behavior as justified when a real team player could have asked for a renegotiation while showing up to OTA's. To me, Peters actions make him unworthy of a cap-buster deal. I would rather trade him and move on.

 

PTR

[Leonidas]

Noting against McKelvin. I love the Leodis pick. That said, the Bills can't have it both ways. Like you said, they should have addressed the situation earlier. Hindsight is not 20/20 in this case. It was very easy to see this coming. He skipped all OTAs and was not returning phone calls from the team, giving them an early indication that he was unhappy with his deal. If they wanted to draft McKelvin, fine... they should have found a starting caliber tackle in the 2nd or 3rd rounds... but they didn't. They continued along the same course with Kirk Chambers. That, in my opinion, gives Peters leverage.

 

They should have addressed it, yes, but not by another pick. Look, Peters has handled this thing all wrong. Apparently he hadn't even been in contact with Buffalo and just expected them to give him a new contract. That's a horrible negotiation strategy. Contact the FO, make your case, then show up to camp. Guarantee he would have had a deal by now.

 

All that being said, if he had shown up in shape and had a stellar year he would have had a case and probably would have gotten a new deal mid-season. But he sucked, in a BIG way. I don't blame the FO for not reworking his deal, he certainly didn't earn it this season. Now he has the audacity to demand to be the highest paid lineman in the league. !@#$ him.

 

Whether or not you think he has leverage is irrelevant. It's all up to the FO at this point. Peters has two years left on his deal, so he can hold out if he wants and get nothing for it. But he's only hurting himself. If it looks like he's going to do that and we can't get good value for him in a trade then look elsewhere and let him destroy his own career.

 

 

Peter's agent counts on front office people to wet themselves like many on this forum do, especially when he is in a weak position. In fact his only leverage is to damage the team which already casts a pall on the negotiation. Add to that his client's behavior and subsequent poor performance, despite his pro bowl vote last season, and you have an extremely bitter pill to swallow with no guarentee of getting Peters best even if you do cave to his demands.

 

The Peters fanboys point to his rep and ignore his actual performance. They excuse his selfish behavior as justified when a real team player could have asked for a renegotiation while showing up to OTA's. To me, Peters actions make him unworthy of a cap-buster deal. I would rather trade him and move on.

 

PTR

 

Exactly.

[bflobarry]

Something to consider: From Peter's POV, he has played pro bowl level LT for several years now, for far less than his value. So this upcoming contract is actually a leveler, in that it makes up for the Bills getting him on the cheap for the last several years. Let's say he gets 40 mil over 4 years. Add that to only 3 mil for the last 2 (pro bowl) years: that's 46 Mil for 6 years, or 7.66 mil per. That is STILL cheap for a pro bowl LT. The guy to his right made 9 mil, and was a stiff. I'm not defending it, just pointing out his perspective...

[DazedandConfused]

Peter's agent counts on front office people to wet themselves like many on this forum do, especially when he is in a weak position. In fact his only leverage is to damage the team which already casts a pall on the negotiation. Add to that his client's behavior and subsequent poor performance, despite his pro bowl vote last season, and you have an extremely bitter pill to swallow with no guarentee of getting Peters best even if you do cave to his demands.

 

The Peters fanboys point to his rep and ignore his actual performance. They excuse his selfish behavior as justified when a real team player could have asked for a renegotiation while showing up to OTA's. To me, Peters actions make him unworthy of a cap-buster deal. I would rather trade him and move on.

 

PTR

Personally, I think Peters is a jerk. But this conclusion ends up as a so what for me because:

 

A. I don't know Peters personally and have no personal interaction with this fellow who appears to be a jerk so what I think of him personally is fairly irrelevant.

 

B. I do interact with Peters and the Bills as a wild-eyed fan, but in regards to a dispute between this player who I think is a jerk and this team which I root for whose FO from Ralph on down they appear to be jerks as well. However, choosing whose side am I on based on who I think is a jerk does not get me very far.

 

I think that Peters does have leverage because in the end at worse he will make more money than he has ever made before (and a lot more than he deserves IMHO based on his contribution to society).

 

The Bills however having missed the playoffs for about the decade are flirting with making what has been an obsession for most fans into merely another business.

 

The Bills get little credit from this fan for making a good business decision about LT when overall they stand on the precipice of mismanaging their whole OL set-up just when they happened to get TO to team with Evans to give Edwards some powerful offensive tools to go with Lynch.

 

It will be even more frustrating for this fan, if they welcome in this revamped O attack (TO appears to be a bigger jerk than any of them but he does put a weapon on the field that makes it very hard for the opponent to make it tough for the Bills by lining up 7 or 8 in the box and dting Evans) and trot out an OL which needs a new LG, a new C, and has a Pro bowl LT who is unhappy with his salary while we are sitting there with a lot of cap room.

 

To me the key question for this team is that given the Bills OL last year Peters, Walker, Dockery, Butler, Fowler/Preston what order would you rank them in the play they showed last year (my guess is that most folks would rank them as players in about that order).

 

However, their compensation was roughly in this order Dockery, Walker, Peters, Butler (once he got extended), Fowler.

 

Something should be done here (I think it will this off-season as they will show Peters the money in part due to things playing out in a way that has strengthened Peters case).

 

If nothing is done, it will be further evidence for this fan that the team that I love is merely just a business to the FO.

[Leonidas]

Something to consider: From Peter's POV, he has played pro bowl level LT for several years now, for far less than his value. So this upcoming contract is actually a leveler, in that it makes up for the Bills getting him on the cheap for the last several years. Let's say he gets 40 mil over 4 years. Add that to only 3 mil for the last 2 (pro bowl) years: that's 46 Mil for 6 years, or 7.66 mil per. That is STILL cheap for a pro bowl LT. The guy to his right made 9 mil, and was a stiff. I'm not defending it, just pointing out his perspective...

 

How the hell is $7.66M/year CHEAP for ANY LT??? After #1 overall pick Jake Long, NO LT makes that much!!! What are you talking about...??

[The Senator]

Personally, I think Peters is a jerk. But this conclusion ends up as a so what for me because:

 

A. I don't know Peters personally and have no personal interaction with this fellow who appears to be a jerk so what I think of him personally is fairly irrelevant.

 

B. I do interact with Peters and the Bills as a wild-eyed fan, but in regards to a dispute between this player who I think is a jerk and this team which I root for whose FO from Ralph on down they appear to be jerks as well. However, choosing whose side am I on based on who I think is a jerk does not get me very far.

 

I think that Peters does have leverage because in the end at worse he will make more money than he has ever made before (and a lot more than he deserves IMHO based on his contribution to society).

 

The Bills however having missed the playoffs for about the decade are flirting with making what has been an obsession for most fans into merely another business.

 

The Bills get little credit from this fan for making a good business decision about LT when overall they stand on the precipice of mismanaging their whole OL set-up just when they happened to get TO to team with Evans to give Edwards some powerful offensive tools to go with Lynch.

 

It will be even more frustrating for this fan, if they welcome in this revamped O attack (TO appears to be a bigger jerk than any of them but he does put a weapon on the field that makes it very hard for the opponent to make it tough for the Bills by lining up 7 or 8 in the box and dting Evans) and trot out an OL which needs a new LG, a new C, and has a Pro bowl LT who is unhappy with his salary while we are sitting there with a lot of cap room.

 

To me the key question for this team is that given the Bills OL last year Peters, Walker, Dockery, Butler, Fowler/Preston what order would you rank them in the play they showed last year (my guess is that most folks would rank them as players in about that order).

 

However, their compensation was roughly in this order Dockery, Walker, Peters, Butler (once he got extended), Fowler.

 

Something should be done here (I think it will this off-season as they will show Peters the money in part due to things playing out in a way that has strengthened Peters case).

 

If nothing is done, it will be further evidence for this fan that the team that I love is merely just a business to the FO.

fixed