DC Tom Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Mostly true. But fascism is predicated on socialism = fascists believe that the state is all important, as opposed to the "working class" (as if I don't work twice as hard, and produce 10 times as much, as some union guy every week). But, both share the common view that it is the government's responsibility to provide vocation for it's people, because both advocate governmental control of every aspect of people's lives and/or the government being the central focus of people's lives. It's inaccurate to say fascism is predicated on socialism: fascism is political dogma based on centralized, authoritative leadership with very strong reliance nationalist or "community" (e.g. race) identity. Socialism is an economic principle of state control or ownership of economic means. Neither is predicated on the other; more accurately, both are predicated on centralized control, but are significantly different otherwise. Bullschit. Every socialist is, by definition, a "Communist in Progress", meaning that they swear up and down that all their efforts are geared towards trying to get to Communism....so that's why it's "OK" to murder more people than the Nazis. This means whatever retarded thing they do is both above question because "they know better" and is completely justified as long as it's a means leading towards the Communist end. You cannot be a socialist, unless you are an "eventual Communist". Socialism was defined by Marx as the "in-between" stage moving from capitalism to Communism. If you're talking about Marxists, then maybe. But the simple fact is, socialism and communism have real differences (most obvious being: one's a practical reality and one's a total fantasy). Communism in it's theoretical form is different from socialism, and is unachievable precisely because of the difference: socialism requires central control, communism requires communal control rather than centralized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 It's inaccurate to say fascism is predicated on socialism: fascism is political dogma based on centralized, authoritative leadership with very strong reliance nationalist or "community" (e.g. race) identity. Socialism is an economic principle of state control or ownership of economic means. Neither is predicated on the other; more accurately, both are predicated on centralized control, but are significantly different otherwise. Dude, Mussolini is credited generally as the the first fascist. Um, a fasces is the Roman sticks bundled together, right? Hence the term, right? Mussolini was a socialist and drew most of his ideology from the socialist ethos. It is not only accurate to say that fascism is predicated on socialism, it's 100% correct = "Regarding Mussolini Professor Benito Mussolini,...38,revolutionary socialist, has a police record; elementary school teacher qualified to teach in secondary schools;"<--primary source info The father of Fascism was a friggin' socialist first, for years. He blended in his father's and others nationalist views into his socialist views...which were there first...thus creating fascism. I think you can do the math on the rest right? If you're talking about Marxists, then maybe. But the simple fact is, socialism and communism have real differences (most obvious being: one's a practical reality and one's a total fantasy). Communism in it's theoretical form is different from socialism, and is unachievable precisely because of the difference: socialism requires central control, communism requires communal control rather than centralized. Well, I find I am again talking about how the guy who wrote the damn play book defined the terms = primary source, not some lame dick college professor's interpretation of "theory". Marx wrote what he wrote, socialism is the term he used to define the transition to Communism. That's all there is, there ain't no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Dude, Mussolini is credited generally as the the first fascist. Um, a fasces is the Roman sticks bundled together, right? Hence the term, right? Mussolini was a socialist and drew most of his ideology from the socialist ethos. It is not only accurate to say that fascism is predicated on socialism, it's 100% correct = "Regarding Mussolini Professor Benito Mussolini,...38,revolutionary socialist, has a police record; elementary school teacher qualified to teach in secondary schools;"<--primary source info The father of Fascism was a friggin' socialist first, for years. He blended in his father's and others nationalist views into his socialist views...which were there first...thus creating fascism. I think you can do the math on the rest right? Well, I find I am again talking about how the guy who wrote the damn play book defined the terms = primary source, not some lame dick college professor's interpretation of "theory". Marx wrote what he wrote, socialism is the term he used to define the transition to Communism. That's all there is, there ain't no more. It is of long standing... The folks that want to make endless distinctions between socialism, fascism, communism. It is all the same. A ruling cadre that dismisses the general population as a body inferior, to be manipulated, controlled, silenced, incarcerated, ultimatly killed. A cadre that collects willing acolytes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 It is of long standing... The folks that want to make endless distinctions between socialism, fascism, communism. It is all the same. A ruling cadre that dismisses the general population as a body inferior, to be manipulated, controlled, silenced, incarcerated, ultimatly killed. A cadre that collects willing acolytes. Agreed. And, this is also why we should resist, violently if necessary, all attempts to impose said cadre upon us, this right being specifically guaranteed to us by the founding principles/documents of our country. Look I am in the first group of people they have to kill in order gain/keep their power: people that can build things from scratch without any help from the government or inheritance. My very existence proves their ideology to be the BS that it is, because, according to them, I don't exist. I do, so they have to get rid of me. I look at resisting them as self-defense, and so should every other small business owner, or independent contractor, or VC company founder, or inventor that wants to benefit from his/her own work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Dude, Mussolini is credited generally as the the first fascist. Um, a fasces is the Roman sticks bundled together, right? Hence the term, right? Mussolini was a socialist and drew most of his ideology from the socialist ethos. It is not only accurate to say that fascism is predicated on socialism, it's 100% correct = "Regarding Mussolini Professor Benito Mussolini,...38,revolutionary socialist, has a police record; elementary school teacher qualified to teach in secondary schools;"<--primary source info The father of Fascism was a friggin' socialist first, for years. He blended in his father's and others nationalist views into his socialist views...which were there first...thus creating fascism. I think you can do the math on the rest right? Yeah, I've only studied it for a quarter-century. What the !@#$ do I know. Well, I find I am again talking about how the guy who wrote the damn play book defined the terms = primary source, not some lame dick college professor's interpretation of "theory". Marx wrote what he wrote, socialism is the term he used to define the transition to Communism. That's all there is, there ain't no more. Primary source? Two words: Plato's Republic. Two more words: Moore's Utopia. Marx defined Marxism. Communism was defined well before he wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Lieutenant Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Agreed. And, this is also why we should resist, violently if necessary, all attempts to impose said cadre upon us, this right being specifically guaranteed to us by the founding principles/documents of our country. Look I am in the first group of people they have to kill in order gain/keep their power: people that can build things from scratch without any help from the government or inheritance. My very existence proves their ideology to be the BS that it is, because, according to them, I don't exist. I do, so they have to get rid of me. I look at resisting them as self-defense, and so should every other small business owner, or independent contractor, or VC company founder, or inventor that wants to benefit from his/her own work. This is why I love this forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Yeah, I've only studied it for a quarter-century. What the !@#$ do I know. Apparently not much wrt Mussolini. I too have studied it for the same amount of time...it helps me in my eternal study of organizational theory. I'm just stating the facts. You are free to bring other facts in, but let's avoid the "interpretation/theory" because that's like talking about the Bills offense. Primary source? Two words: Plato's Republic. Two more words: Moore's Utopia. Marx defined Marxism. Communism was defined well before he wrote. Not as a...manifesto. Look you could argue that the Iroquois defined Communism, or the Navajos. But nobody put forward a unified, global, macro and micro economic platform, as well as a political one, until Marx and Engels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBinVA Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 Yeah, I've only studied it for a quarter-century. What the !@#$ do I know. Are you on Obama's payroll then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Look you could argue that the Iroquois defined Communism, or the Navajos. But nobody put forward a unified, global, macro and micro economic platform, as well as a political one, until Marx and Engels. Which was the manifesto of the German school, which IIRC at the time was battling with the French for the intellectual supremacy for the workers' movement. There are as many flavors of communism as a freezer shelf of Ben & Jerry's. That's why it is important to call the most widely known experiment of communism - Marxism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Communism is also socialism. WTF are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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