Alphadawg7 Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 1. Any Cutler thread is a thread that involves Edwards because he would replace Edwards...any case you make against Cutler is basically a case for Trent... 2. I responded to YOUR post about Trent turning the ball over less than Cutler... 3. Trent WAS bad last year more than he was good...just facts...8 of his 13 games he had UNDER an 82 QB rating, 6 of which were under 80... You didnt answer my question: Do you want to rethink you boasty statement that Trent has been "above average" when we needed him after seeing what he actually did on the field, especially our division? For the record...bashing a guy is simply saying he is a bumb, loser, will never get better, dump him...etc...I have NEVER said that he is any of those things, all I have done is remind you and others of his ACTUAL play on the field was not very good in most games last year. His stats are his stats...simple as that, and thats not bashing, thats reviewing the facts. You so desperately try to fluff him up to have performed better than he did. And it seems as if I am crusading or whatever you said because I am constantly responding to ridiculous statements like the one you just made claiming he has been "above average in the clutch" when he clearly has not, or other ridiculous statements claiming he is better than Cutler, people would take him over Brees, etc...I mean the sh*t gets real deep around here. I am not going to be a "homer" and try and pretend the guy has been better than he has just because he is a Bill. I like him, and will support him this season (even if he is in Denver), but that doesnt change my view on his play in 2008...it was bad more than it was good. You have some good posts on other topics, and I always enjoy a good debate, but man Magox, some of the stuff you do and say to prop Trent up to have performed better than he has is just astonishing...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 what are you high?? TE a better clutch player than Cutler, while Cutler may not be great, it would be a stretch to call Edwards decent in the clutch. I know he had those come back games where he valiantly marched us down the field in the 4th quarter and we all felt good, and we all where cautiously thinking super bowl at 5-1....then thats when it hit the fan, teams got tape, realized when they where up they didnt have to play prevent, because we(TE) dont throw the ball down field. Trent was so clutch we managed to drop basically the last 10 games of the season. How has TE not been poor when we needed him(please not playoff schedule, and how we where not on it) Under zero circumstances do I think TE is a bad QB, but the jury is still out, there are some real ball control, arm strength, weather, and durability issues. He still has alot to prove, and I think can be very good. Like Alpha I just dont understand the Golden Boy persona TE has been given, why the constant get out of jail free card on a regular basis. Exactly...I couldnt agree more...
DE Bills Fan Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Reading all of these posts in favor of acquiring Jay Cutler for an unknown price, got me thinking about how absurd it would be for the Bills. I'm not sure if the more intelligent Bills fans think this way, but I can think of at least five reasons not to. 1. Despite his stats, Cutler throws his share of INT's. 18 last season was among league worst in this category. Granted he's young, but QB's with rocket arms tend to force too much and get picked. (Cue a Favre reference) 2. He's been pampered and the center of attention in Denver. A 3 year vet who's started 2.5 seasons, he doesn't have the maturity to handle adversity. That won't change anytime soon. 3. Shanahan's offenses put up points, but he's not going into a Shanahan offense if he goes to Buffalo. 4. His agent Bus Cook has fomented more rebellion among his players, than most agents. It seems he likes being in the news as much as his clients. 5. The price tag, including draft picks and future cap space would be astronomical. McDaniels is attempting to be Belichick Jr in Denver, and will recognize that someone will overpay for a QB. Cutler's trade value, depsite the conflict, will demand a great deal of resources Buffalo should use to build their team. I'm referring to a DE, TE, perhaps an OLB, and OL depth. Don't forget the Bills top 3 DE's are or will be over 30 this season. Stroud is as well. Couldn't disagree with you more. You miss the whole point. Without a QB, you have no chance in the NFL. This is the rarest of rare opportunitied to get asuperior franchise QB. You jump at that chance. If the Bills don't at least try, it shows that it is hopeless...
Magox Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 what are you high?? TE a better clutch player than Cutler, while Cutler may not be great, it would be a stretch to call Edwards decent in the clutch. I know he had those come back games where he valiantly marched us down the field in the 4th quarter and we all felt good, and we all where cautiously thinking super bowl at 5-1....then thats when it hit the fan, teams got tape, realized when they where up they didnt have to play prevent, because we(TE) dont throw the ball down field. Trent was so clutch we managed to drop basically the last 10 games of the season. How has TE not been poor when we needed him(please not playoff schedule, and how we where not on it) Under zero circumstances do I think TE is a bad QB, but the jury is still out, there are some real ball control, arm strength, weather, and durability issues. He still has alot to prove, and I think can be very good. Like Alpha I just dont understand the Golden Boy persona TE has been given, why the constant get out of jail free card on a regular basis. In response to your first question, sometimes. but not now. In regards to clutch, I stand by that statement %100. When the game is on the line, specially in the 4th quarter, he has shown the ability to do what it takes, in order for us to win. Has he done it every single time? No, but just about every time. Considering this was his first full year and not having too much talent surrounding him both offensively and defensively, I think that is pretty damn impressive. As far as your comment what he did the last 10 games. I think you forget that Losman was in some of those games, and that Trent did play well in a few of those games, so your slightly exagerating. and why should he get a pass, well, no one get's a free pass right? He has done enough, to show that he can win games, play efficiently, with not to much talent around him to give him the benefit of the doubt to continue to be our starter this next year. And for the 3rd time. This thread originally had nothing to do with Edwards vs. Cutler. The original poster didn't make those comparisons, I didn't make those comparisons until Alpha brought his crusade against Edwards into the thread. That is a fact. Just take a look and you will see
PushthePile Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Cutler- probowl Qb, never missed a game since highschool despite type 1 diabetes (untreated as well), 3rd in passing yards over the last two seasons, second highest 4th quarter Qb rating over last two seasons, tremendous TD rate, average int %, and seems like a jerk Edwards- playing for his job this season, injury prone (college and pros), 27th in passing tds last year- behind guys like Ferotte, J. Russell, Shaun Hill, Kyle Orton, and Jason Campbell, below NFL average yardage totals since becoming the starter, average int %, and seems like a nice guy I'll take the jerk!
Alphadawg7 Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 where do you get your information from? Cutler int % 2.9 Edwards int % 2.7 career int % cutler %3.03 Edwards %2.79 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?s...2&year=2008 The year before they were the same. But to continue BillsVets reasons, which I believe the most important reasons havn't even been mentioned is : 6) His clutch performances. It was clear, that all the Broncos had to do was win their last three games of the season, and they are in the playoffs. The last three games of the year, when they needed him most, he didn't have one game out of the three where he had a qb rating of over 75. 2 td's 4 int's. 7) Critical junctures of the game he throws disastrous interceptions, ex. Buffalo and Chargers 8) hasn't produced a winning season, in arguably the weakest division of all of football. Considering the things that you mentioned BillsVet, there isn't anything that compels me to want to go after him at all. You are high Magox...here is YOUR post BEFORE I ever posted in this thread...it compares Trent and Cutler...I responded to THIS thread... And for the last time, any Cutler thread involves Edwards because he would be replacing Edwards...not rocket science here...
Magox Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 1. Any Cutler thread is a thread that involves Edwards because he would replace Edwards...any case you make against Cutler is basically a case for Trent...2. I responded to YOUR post about Trent turning the ball over less than Cutler... 3. Trent WAS bad last year more than he was good...just facts...8 of his 13 games he had UNDER an 82 QB rating, 6 of which were under 80... You didnt answer my question: Do you want to rethink you boasty statement that Trent has been "above average" when we needed him after seeing what he actually did on the field, especially our division? For the record...bashing a guy is simply saying he is a bumb, loser, will never get better, dump him...etc...I have NEVER said that he is any of those things, all I have done is remind you and others of his ACTUAL play on the field was not very good in most games last year. His stats are his stats...simple as that, and thats not bashing, thats reviewing the facts. You so desperately try to fluff him up to have performed better than he did. And it seems as if I am crusading or whatever you said because I am constantly responding to ridiculous statements like the one you just made claiming he has been "above average in the clutch" when he clearly has not, or other ridiculous statements claiming he is better than Cutler, people would take him over Brees, etc...I mean the sh*t gets real deep around here. I am not going to be a "homer" and try and pretend the guy has been better than he has just because he is a Bill. I like him, and will support him this season (even if he is in Denver), but that doesnt change my view on his play in 2008...it was bad more than it was good. You have some good posts on other topics, and I always enjoy a good debate, but man Magox, some of the stuff you do and say to prop Trent up to have performed better than he has is just astonishing... No where in my original post did I make a comparison between the two. You brought your Trent Bashing into the discussion, as usual. My original comments about Cutler were all factualy correct. Those are my opinions on why I don't want him here. Let's face it Alpha, You and I are never going to agree about this subject. I have my points, which are valid, and you have yours.
Magox Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 1. Trent's INT ratio is WORSE than Cutlers.2. What GOOD QB isn't pampered & the center of attention? 3. He has shown he has the arm strength to play in Buffalo & would put up more points than Trent. 4. Agree. 5. Belichick gave up Cassell & a Vet LB for a #2. I would GLADLY give Denver a #2 for Cuttler & ANY other player & Trent can be his back up. Alpha look what FLbillsfan wrote? He said INT ratio not turnover ratio I corrected him got it?
firstngoal Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Reading all of these posts in favor of acquiring Jay Cutler for an unknown price, got me thinking about how absurd it would be for the Bills. I'm not sure if the more intelligent Bills fans think this way, but I can think of at least five reasons not to. 1. Despite his stats, Cutler throws his share of INT's. 18 last season was among league worst in this category. Granted he's young, but QB's with rocket arms tend to force too much and get picked. (Cue a Favre reference) 2. He's been pampered and the center of attention in Denver. A 3 year vet who's started 2.5 seasons, he doesn't have the maturity to handle adversity. That won't change anytime soon. 3. Shanahan's offenses put up points, but he's not going into a Shanahan offense if he goes to Buffalo. 4. His agent Bus Cook has fomented more rebellion among his players, than most agents. It seems he likes being in the news as much as his clients. 5. The price tag, including draft picks and future cap space would be astronomical. McDaniels is attempting to be Belichick Jr in Denver, and will recognize that someone will overpay for a QB. Cutler's trade value, depsite the conflict, will demand a great deal of resources Buffalo should use to build their team. I'm referring to a DE, TE, perhaps an OLB, and OL depth. Don't forget the Bills top 3 DE's are or will be over 30 this season. Stroud is as well. The only thing that is absurd would be the Bills not pursuing Cutler. I know that they won't because Jauron is married to Edwards, but there is NO comparison between the two. Cutler is a young QB with a cannon for an arm and the mobility to match. he threw for over 4,000 yds last year and had his team headed to the playoffs despite a running game and the worst defense in the league. Cutler is a top 6 QB in the league. Edwards is far from being a proven NFL starter. He's injury prone, and can't throw the deep ball accurately. There's a reason he lasted until the later part of the 3rd round, and there's a good chance that he won't be a starter in the league after 2009 if Jauron gets the boot, and a new coach either sends him packing, or to the bench. Cutler is a proven starter that will play in the league for 10+ years and has a chance to re-write the record books.
PushthePile Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 No where in my original post did I make a comparison between the two. You brought your Trent Bashing into the discussion, as usual. My original comments about Cutler were all factualy correct. Those are my opinions on why I don't want him here. Let's face it Alpha, You and I are never going to agree about this subject. I have my points, which are valid, and you have yours. You stated that Cutler is not a clutch player and based it on a handpicked three game stretch. Your OPINIONS of his play in the clutch are not only unfound but they are flat out wrong. His 4th quarter Qb rating is second highest in the league over the last two seasons and he has numerous comeback wins. Off the top of my head San Diego this past season and in Buffalo two seasons ago in the opener.
Magox Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 You stated that Cutler is not a clutch player and based it on a handpicked three game stretch. Your OPINIONS of his play in the clutch are not only unfound but they are flat out wrong. His 4th quarter Qb rating is second highest in the league over the last two seasons and he has numerous comeback wins. Off the top of my head San Diego this past season and in Buffalo two seasons ago in the opener. uhhh ya no sh*t they were the 3 most important games of his career
PushthePile Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 The only thing that is absurd would be the Bills not pursuing Cutler. I know that they won't because Jauron is married to Edwards, but there is NO comparison between the two. Cutler is a young QB with a cannon for an arm and the mobility to match. he threw for over 4,000 yds last year and had his team headed to the playoffs despite a running game and the worst defense in the league. Cutler is a top 6 QB in the league. Edwards is far from being a proven NFL starter. He's injury prone, and can't throw the deep ball accurately. There's a reason he lasted until the later part of the 3rd round, and there's a good chance that he won't be a starter in the league after 2009 if Jauron gets the boot, and a new coach either sends him packing, or to the bench. Cutler is a proven starter that will play in the league for 10+ years and has a chance to re-write the record books. Exactly! It is not even comparable. Next thing you know all the Homers around here will be telling us Lynch is superior to Peterson because Minnesota has a good o-line. Just pathetic.
PushthePile Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 uhhh ya no sh*t they were the 3 most important games of his career Relax my friend. Cutler has started 37 games in his three year career, I think he might be able have a few bigger ones in the future. Unlike Edwards who is going into a do or die situation this season and needs to do something he has never done before.What about that 4th quarter qb rating, nothing to say?
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 uhhh ya no sh*t they were the 3 most important games of his career What does that even mean?
Magox Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Relax my friend. Cutler has started 37 games in his three year career, I think he might be able have a few bigger ones in the future. Unlike Edwards who is going into a do or die situation this season and needs to do something he has never done before.What about that 4th quarter qb rating, nothing to say? I never said that Cutler wasn't a bad qb. I said it on another thread a couple times that Up to now, Cutler is more accomplished. He made the probowl, has the bigger arm, classic gunslinger. His 4th quarter qb rating is good. But the bottom line is, that up to now, when they needed him most, he didn't deliver. That is not an unfair statement. It is the truth. Will Cutler have more important games in his career moving forward. I would think that he most likely will. But up to now, in the 3 biggest games of his career, he hasn't produced. So when this thread was created, the original poster stated his reasons why he wouldn't want Cutler, and I stated mine. fair enough?
PushthePile Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 I never said that Cutler wasn't a bad qb. I said it on another thread a couple times that Up to now, Cutler is more accomplished. He made the probowl, has the bigger arm, classic gunslinger. His 4th quarter qb rating is good. But the bottom line is, that up to now, when they needed him most, he didn't deliver. That is not an unfair statement. It is the truth. Will Cutler have more important games in his career moving forward. I would think that he most likely will. But up to now, in the 3 biggest games of his career, he hasn't produced. So when this thread was created, the original poster stated his reasons why he wouldn't want Cutler, and I stated mine. fair enough? Of course it's fair. I am respectfully disagreeing on this one, thats all. I've read lots of your posts and think you are an informed fan. We aren't going to come to a conclusion on this one but that's alright because Trent's our guy. I'll root for Edwards every time he takes the field.
Magox Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 What does that even mean? It's been discussed many times before, here's a recap Denver with 3 games remaining, had a huge lead against the Chargers to get into the playoffs, pretty much everyone thought they were going to get in, do you remember that? So, in the last 3 games, Cutler had 3 very mediocre games, 2 tds 4 ints. Not one game of qb rating of over 75 in the three games. So, the argument is that when they needed him to have his performance, he gave mediocre performances, and had two very important Int's, one against buffalo (kawika mitchel)4th quarter, the other in the 3rd quarter against chargers where on the ensuing play Tomlinson scores a 14 yard td run to change the tide of the game. So, when Pushthepile said, that i handpicked 3 games, thats when I made the comment.
Alphadawg7 Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Magox you like to point out crusades when all anyone does is discuss the truth and facts of what Trent did on the field. You seem to be the only one on a crusade here...and two of them... 1. You are on a crusade to prop Trent up to have done more than he has. In fact, you blatently ignore factual stats to the contrary. 2. You are on a seperate crusade to discredit a Pro Bowl QB to further prop up Edwards... We will just have to agree to disagree because I dont even know how to respond to your outrageous claims for Trent and even worse ones from Cutler...especially when you continuously blatently ignore factual evidence to the contrary of your discussion... No biggie...everyone is entitled to their opinnion...see you on another thread...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Funny thing too is that we seem to agree on a lot of other topics, but we are on polar opposites of this one Magox...lol... Its all good...
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