Pete Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I would not be happy with that... Maybe as a third round pick, but def not at 11 Ayers in the third round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I'd rather have Moreno than Beanie Wells. Moreno I believe will be a player in the mold of a Westbrook. Beanie in my view, runs very linear, stiff hips to straight up. To tell you the truth, I never really was to impressed with him in college. I was saying that Mayock doesn't even have him in the top 20. Look at Beanie's combine #'s. There was a thread on TSW with 10 yard split times. I can't remember the exact #'s, but I know that Beanie was far better than Moreno. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lylP9aeFc7E Look at the shiftiness and quick feet on that big man, not to mention the explosion when he hits the open for a guy his size. He doesn't really run that stiff at all stick. He actually looks like a faster, more explosive version of this guy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOBILLS78 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I would not be happy with that... Maybe as a third round pick, but def not at 11 I agree, although I'd be fine with him in the second round. The guy is just not explosive, period. My buddy is a huge Vols fan and said Ayers disappears for three-four game stretches. Just completely irrelevant. The last thing the Bills need is another lumbering defensive end. I've watched two highlight videos of him and for the most part, the plays he makes are when he's largely unblocked. Yay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I am guessing Ayers is our first pick He better not be. He had three sacks this year!! Nine in his entire four-year career!! Stay away from him. I'd rather trade down and take a shot at Michael Johnson from GT. People can cry "workout warrior" and compare him to Mike Mamula all they want, but at least he had some decent production in college. What did Ayers do?? Basically nothing. AVOID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I might be totally wrong on this, but I don't remember the last time we drafted someone that we had in for a visit. The Bills brought in Leodis McKelvin in late March last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 the talk of the third round is highly unrealistic. There is a tiny chance he's still there at our 2nd pick. I'd rather get more of a pure pass rusher that we can move around and cause defenses problems. If we got Ayers AND Connor Barwin, I'd be very happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I was saying that Mayock doesn't even have him in the top 20. Look at Beanie's combine #'s. There was a thread on TSW with 10 yard split times. I can't remember the exact #'s, but I know that Beanie was far better than Moreno. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lylP9aeFc7E Look at the shiftiness and quick feet on that big man, not to mention the explosion when he hits the open for a guy his size. He doesn't really run that stiff at all stick. He actually looks like a faster, more explosive version of this guy: you may be right, this is just what I observed out of him. I really was never to high on Wells, like I said earlier, I thought he was to stiff. I just like Moreno, not so much as your grind it out type of guy, but as a 10-15 carries a game 60+ receptions aseason sort of a guy. I think he's gonna be a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Good. Let's hope Cleveland takes him at #5 then so we won't make a retard decision with our #11 pick this year The guy has Moreno rated his #6 and Beanie isn't even in the top 20? Even after Beanie's pro day 40-yard dashes that were clocked as low as 4.36 when he's 220lbs+? I hope it goes right in order with "his" top 20 because that means Raji falls right into our lap. Isn't it funny how almost every year guys like Beanie run much better at their school's pro days than at the combine? There's absolutely no way Wells ran under 4.4 IMO. I would love to know how one goes from a 4.59 to a 4.36 in the 40 in a span of under a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 you may be right, this is just what I observed out of him. I really was never to high on Wells, like I said earlier, I thought he was to stiff. I just like Moreno, not so much as your grind it out type of guy, but as a 10-15 carries a game 60+ receptions aseason sort of a guy. I think he's gonna be a good one. Yeah, I think he's gonna be good as well. I said that he reminds me of Tomlinson in a way. The LSU game stands out to me from this year where he ripped off a 60+ yard TD run. IMO, Wells is one of the top 20 players in this draft. I don't see Moreno as the #6 player in this year's crop. JMO sort of like Mayock's, only he get's paid for his Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Isn't it funny how almost every year guys like Beanie run much better at their school's pro days than at the combine? There's absolutely no way Wells ran under 4.4 IMO. I would love to know how one goes from a 4.59 to a 4.36 in the 40 in a span of under a month. Donte Stallworth ran a 4.18 (allegedly) at Tennessee. Don't believe any times except for the ones obtained in Indy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Isn't it funny how almost every year guys like Beanie run much better at their school's pro days than at the combine? There's absolutely no way Wells ran under 4.4 IMO. I would love to know how one goes from a 4.59 to a 4.36 in the 40 in a span of under a month. Didn't watch much of Wells at OSU so don't have a real opinion on the guy. However, the track at Ohio State is reputed to be pretty fast. But it's not even that simple. All the players ran indoors but to make it even more of a joke, some players ran on FieldTurf and some ran on AstroTurf. Agreed that you can't place much faith in these times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 OSU's track is extremely fast and supposedly up to .15 are added to the 40 times run on their pro day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 He better not be. He had three sacks this year!! Nine in his entire four-year career!! Stay away from him. I'd rather trade down and take a shot at Michael Johnson from GT. People can cry "workout warrior" and compare him to Mike Mamula all they want, but at least he had some decent production in college. What did Ayers do?? Basically nothing. AVOID. It isn't always about sacks. If the DE consistently applies pressure to the QB, disrupts his timing and forces errant passes, he is doing his job. I am not advocating a selection of Ayers. However, I really get the impression that the Bills are not sold on Maybin -- and if they can't trade down from 11, both Brown and "Rack" are already gone, and the team is dead set on drafting a DE, Ayers is probably the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 It isn't always about sacks. If the DE consistently applies pressure to the QB, disrupts his timing and forces errant passes, he is doing his job. I am not advocating a selection of Ayers. However, I really get the impression that the Bills are not sold on Maybin -- and if they can't trade down from 11, both Brown and "Rack" are already gone, and the team is dead set on drafting a DE, Ayers is probably the guy. You can always trade down, it just depends it the compensation is worth it. But if you can take the same guys (Ayers, Pettigrew) at #20 than you can take at #11, then you should be willing to take less for your #11 pick. And I agree that sacks aren't everything. But three is unacceptable from a top draft pick, I'm sorry. Again, I'll take my chances with trading down and drafting Michael Johnson over Ayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 It isn't always about sacks. If the DE consistently applies pressure to the QB, disrupts his timing and forces errant passes, he is doing his job. I am not advocating a selection of Ayers. However, I really get the impression that the Bills are not sold on Maybin -- and if they can't trade down from 11, both Brown and "Rack" are already gone, and the team is dead set on drafting a DE, Ayers is probably the guy. At first glance, Robert Ayers reminds me a lot of Justin Tuck and Osi Umenyiora. Same frame, same athleticism. Some guys just mature later than others. Hence the term "late bloomer". For the guys who said he's done nothing, I've read that he had a great 2008 season. He was unstoppable in the Alabama game and apparently did the same at Senior Bowl week. Put on the tape of the Giant/Pats Superbowl and remind yourself what a big nasty DE can do to Tom Brady's game. Ayers very well could be worth the risk of drafting him at #11. Sorry, but I do put a lot of stock in him being a "late bloomer". Enough of drafting little high motor guys and inflated linebackers and expecting them to exert a pass rush! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 At first glance, Robert Ayers reminds me a lot of Justin Tuck and Osi Umenyiora. Same frame, same athleticism. Some guys just mature later than others. Hence the term "late bloomer". For the guys who said he's done nothing, I've read that he had a great 2008 season. He was unstoppable in the Alabama game and apparently did the same at Senior Bowl week. Put on the tape of the Giant/Pats Superbowl and remind yourself what a big nasty DE can do to Tom Brady's game. Ayers very well could be worth the risk of drafting him at #11. Sorry, but I do put a lot of stock in him being a "late bloomer". Enough of drafting little high motor guys and inflated linebackers and expecting them to exert a pass rush! You mean the Alabama game where he had four tackles and zero sacks? Yeah, real unstoppable. I saw Super Bowl XLI. If I could draft Tuck or Umenyiora I would but I'm pretty sure it's a little late for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 You mean the Alabama game where he had four tackles and zero sacks? Yeah, real unstoppable. I saw Super Bowl XLI. If I could draft Tuck or Umenyiora I would but I'm pretty sure it's a little late for that. Mike Mayock kicked him into his top twenty based on that game. Just because he didn't get a sack doesn't mean he wasn't causing havoc. Clearly neither of us saw the game. Anyone here watch that Bama/Vol game care to add their opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In space no one can hear Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 At first glance, Robert Ayers reminds me a lot of Justin Tuck and Osi Umenyiora. Same frame, same athleticism. Some guys just mature later than others. Hence the term "late bloomer". For the guys who said he's done nothing, I've read that he had a great 2008 season. He was unstoppable in the Alabama game and apparently did the same at Senior Bowl week. Put on the tape of the Giant/Pats Superbowl and remind yourself what a big nasty DE can do to Tom Brady's game. Ayers very well could be worth the risk of drafting him at #11. Sorry, but I do put a lot of stock in him being a "late bloomer". Enough of drafting little high motor guys and inflated linebackers and expecting them to exert a pass rush! Randon thoughts: I put alot of stock in Mayock's projections, his track record at identifying talent is very strong. Thus, reservations I have about Ayers are a muted because of Mayock's belief in him. It's important to remember that while Ayers sack numbers are not strong, he did have 15.5 tackles for a loss. which is a strong reflection that he is able to get pressure. Just a note though- that you bring up Tuck and Umenyiora, they were much more productive college players. Tuck had 13.5 sacks as a junior and Umenyiora had 16 in his final college season. Obviously a bonus with Ayers is, like Tuck, he will be able to be moved inside on passing downs-while the smallish ends/linebackers like Brown and Maybin can't provide that versatility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 You can always trade down, it just depends it the compensation is worth it. But if you can take the same guys (Ayers, Pettigrew) at #20 than you can take at #11, then you should be willing to take less for your #11 pick. And I agree that sacks aren't everything. But three is unacceptable from a top draft pick, I'm sorry. Again, I'll take my chances with trading down and drafting Michael Johnson over Ayers. I've watched all available video on both Ayers and Johnson. Yesterday I had posted 10 yard split times on many of the top prospects. I believe Johnson had a 1.50 split (very quick) and Ayers had a 1.66 split (pretty mediocre). In spite of that, the game tapes show that Ayers has a great initial burst/explosion and Johnson doesn't. Johnson does seem to have very nice closing speed though. Johnson's football speed doesn't seem up to his timed speed while Ayers' football speed is faster than his timed speed. Ayers also appears to have great change and of direction and suddenness while Johnson seems more of a long strider and more deliberate/predictable in his movements. I found the Ayers video to be more impressive than the Johnson video. If both were there at the Bills pick I'd personally take Ayers in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 here's Ayer's highlights from the Vols/Bama game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccuoGx3A6t4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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