atlbillsfan1975 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I don't want to trade or get rid of any of those guys you listed. Peters is the only guy that i think the Bills might HAVE to trade. And the reason i say that is because he is asking for too much money and i dont like his attitude. Not going to get on a tangent about that and hijack this thread into a Peters one. Schobel when healthy is very good. Fans are fickle and want to win now. And so do the Bills, sometimes injuries do play a big role in how well your team plays. If Schobel comes back healthy this year and has 12 sacks or so and the front line gets pressure, then Whitner, McGhee, and Poz look good and everyone is singing their praises next year. The Bills do need to draft a DE pretty high this year to help with this. Edwards is in his 3rd year. I gave J.P three years, and defended him to everyone. To me Edwards has to show a good amount of growth this year. Or else we are looking for a QB next off season. And Parish is a great special team player, who can also line up maybe 10x a game on offense. If they used him right he could be a great situational weapon for Trent. Maybe gets 2-3 catches a game. He needs to be used in open space to show his speed and ellusiveness. Dockery was not worth what he was getting paid and never panned out. He did create a whole at LG but id rather fill it in the draft or FA with a quality guy then an overpaid underperforming guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 Dibs, Lately ... ?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Peters is the best LT we have had since Ballard. House was a RT, not LT. I think it just shows the frustration of fans and the unreasonable, unrealistic views on our current situation. Ya think? A decade of futility and counting, and people still want to scapegoat players. One day they'll catch on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Dibs your points are well founded. One of the problems Buffalo has had is that they have not retained key players over the years. Much time and effort has been wasted keeping the talent turnstyle turning in Buffalo. Solidify the lines and the QB position and things will look much better in Buffalo. One point I very much disagre on you with is Parrish. Unless he takes a pay cut he is a luxury and occupies an otherwise very valuable roster spot. He has not proven himself to be an effective WR. Overall though great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 Maybe it's not players that need to be packaged. I was going to make a point on this in the opener to the thread but figured I'd covered too many issues already. But since you bring it up..... Another thing that has been bugging me....and it relates to the "We should get rid of players." concept....along side with the "We have no talent on the roster." concept....is..... There is a general consensus that the coaching/gameplanning/co-ordinating has been sub-par to say the least.....yet we still end up with 7-9 seasons. Logic would have it that if we were as devoid of talent as many believe....and the coaching is sooooo bad.....we should be finishing closer to 3-13 each year. Putting Wins on the board has the magical effect of turning all of the players into better players. 'Average at best' players become solid starters....solid starter become good....etc. It happens regularly.....sometimes dramatically. Usually it occurs in unison with good QB & line play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 You're on the right track, but in addition to having numerous player changes in this period of futility, we've also had numerous coaching changes also, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyJay1234 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Can we package the whole team for a trade with another team ? Sure The Lions are willing to make this deal if the Bills include the 11 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poeticlaw Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 It's not just me, is it? What is it with the continually incessant ramblings about cutting/trading our good players? It seems to me that unless our players are playing at HOFer level(from their rookie year)......never get injured.....are happy to play at reasonable salaries(based on salaries from 4 year ago)......and never do anything wrong.....there is a large contingent here who will continually agressively argue that we should get rid of the player. If OBD were to listen to the vocal minority here(I'm assuming it's a minority.....I bloody hope it is), we would be saying goodbye to.... Peters(2 probowls, widely considered one of the best young talents at LT in the league): Greedy, lazy, no good, troublemaker Lynch(1 probowl): Thug who is not a superstar Schobel(2 probowls, very few match his sack production, injured last season): Over-rated, over-paid, useless. Whitner(Generally considered a very solid player): No big plays, isn't N'Gata. Parrish(Best punt returner statistically in NFL history): We could get something for him. The only other 'good' players we have are Evans & Stroud.....and apparently Evans is over-paid & Stroud is OK. And it's not just the good players.... Edwards Hasn't hit probowl levels yet....after his 2 seasons. Poz Isn't an instant star....after his 2 seasons(missing his first). McGee Getting older....should be traded while he is still worth something. I know....let's trade every starter.....we'll surely be able to re-build a superbowl team with all of the draft picks. Hell.....big cheers for cutting dockery! Over-paid....obviously a bad player. Still landed himself a $5mil/year deal shortly after being cut. Five Million per year.....for a player that was garbage for us! I still can't believe that there were far more comments about being glad that he's gone than about the huge hole at LG that was created. Draft picks always look better than our current players. Let's trade them for draft picks....we can easily fill the holes via the draft. For those that are not aware.....DRAFT PICKS ARE HIT OR MISS! There is no guarantee of success and in fact there is more chance of failure. And why do people think that our players are more valuable to other teams than to us? It boggles the mind to think that some other team is willing to not only trade valuable draft picks for our guys....but to also then pay them top dollar. If it was going to happen, surely the player is valuable to us!!! Sorry about the ramble/rant but it feels like the patients have taken over the asylum around here lately. Look if everyplayer you mentioned on that list was good we wouldnt be 7-9 for three straight years now would we? Peters is a solid player is he worth over 10 mil a year for one player? Some say yes some say no. I personally think everytime hes unhappy hes going to renegoitiate his salary though is play might not warrant it. The fact was if he wanted a big ontrat he should have ome to camp and been a team player. He would make our team better by subtracting him and getting more picks to fill more spots. Parrish Prolofic return guy not much of a reciever the question with him is he worth 4 mil a year just to return punts. I cannot answer that. Im not opposed to trading him nor am i opposed to keeping him. Either way we would have a solid player or player Schoebel is on the down slide and making too much money we could easily upgrade here. MCgee is a proflic retruner and an average at best cornerback. How many return men do we need. I would rather have a true shutdown corner or a corner that can make big plays he is most certainly gone next year so we should get value for him now! Edwards Yet to prove he can stay healthy, play in cold weather, play in winter conditions, has also shown he cannot shake things mentally. After throwing three ints in one qtr he was a mess and never got better from that point. He can be upgraded and if hes not I am willing to give him the yer since he has noone that can take the job form him over the course of the year unfotunatley. Again like i have said with all our past qbs since Kelly I would like him to prove me wrong so i Know we have a Qb. But like some on this board I would rather have cutler than edwards. At least cutler can throw TDS. NOw for the rest of the list there is no way i would get rid of Lynch the guy is a truck give him holes and youl see not only that hes a bruiser which is a great combo for Jackson a finesse runner. would never break up that tandem. Poz is good maybe not the best fit at ML but it was his first full year at ML hes an OLB by nature. Whitner isnt as bad as everyone makes him out to be either. so out of the 8 players i have it like this 3-Definate keepers 3- have potential trade value we can cashin on now 1- is detrimental to our team and needs to be traded NOW! 1- is nothing but an average Qb who cannot stay healty and has alot to prove this year or hes out the door with DJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 Who pissed in your Wheaties? I don't recall anyone besides you ever coming on this board and saying trade every starter. Many have said trade Peters, and I agree if he doesn't want to play and only wants to B word and moan, get his ass out of here by draft day. Lynch, if he doesn't straighten his act up, we won't have to get rid of him, he will Pacman himself out of the league. Sit back and take a deep breath, seems like you are going a little spastic on us. I never said that anybody said trade every starter.....what I said was that virtually every good player we have regularly gets people strongly calling for them to be cut/traded.....with high support from many posters. This is usually done with little to no thought about the repercussions or logic of the cut/trade.....and quite honestly cuts out reasonable and rational football talk due to the basic hysteria of the many posters. I don't want to pick on you......but you provide a perfect example. You state..... "Many have said trade Peters, and I agree if he doesn't want to play and only wants to B word and moan, get his ass out of here..." What has actually happened this off-season in relation to Peters? Has he held out? Has he bitched & moaned? Has he acted like he doesn't want to play? NO. Last season he wanted a raise.....the Bills said "You're not getting one, but we'll give you one next year." It is now next year & they are negotiating the contract. Unless I'm mistaken, the only word to come out on the subject was 'reported' information stating that they were about $3mil apart at this point. Where is all this 'bitching & moaning' stuff being generated from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 You're on the right track, but in addition to having numerous player changes in this period of futility, we've also had numerous coaching changes also, right? Exactly, every time you change a head coach, GM, coaching staff, etc., it sets a team back a season or two. If Ralph would ever pay what other teams pay to get an established, successful head coach, we might have a little better luck. When was the last time the Bills hired a head coach that had a winning record as a head coach elsewhere? I believe the answer to that is Chuck Knox over 30 years ago (1978). Levy had a losing record in K.C., Wade Phillips had a losing record in Denver, every one else since then has been a joke. Once in awhile you get lucky hiring retreads (Levy), but for the most part, nothing changes. Levy and Phillips (along with Lou Saban) are the only ones that have a .600 winning percentage or better with the Bills, and Ralph forced two of them out of here. It starts at the top and only succeeds with continuity, which the Bills haven't had since Marv Levy left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 You're on the right track, but in addition to having numerous player changes in this period of futility, we've also had numerous coaching changes also, right? I know what you're alluding to......but I don't tend to comment much on RW since I can't figure out how much he sets the agenda(apart from hiring GMs). The whole 'Ralph is cheap' thing I find is overstated.....though an earlier poster in the thread(8and8forever) raised an interesting concept of RW playing favourites which I feel might be closer to the truth. Before I went blaming RW for everything.....I'd like to see what this team could do with a QB who could play at a high level regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ax4782 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I remember people say that 25 games started ,you should be able to tell how good your qb should be .Long enough they said. Well how many games did Edwards start? Plus he is injury prone. And you look he has gotten worse as the season went on both years as a starter. After our 5 and 1 start, he was the worse QB in football. Losman was blamed for every bad game that we had, but when Edwards looses its because of coaches and offensive line,everything but him. the guy showed promise his rookie year but he didn't show me any improvement his second year as a starter and that worries me. And you can't look at a win and lost record and judge a QB. Because your Qb could have a winning drive and the other team could score on your defense with a minute to go on a last second FG and that would count as a lost to the starting QB or the backup QB could come in and score the winning TD and it would count as a win for guy who started. I think we would be a better team with Cutler than Edwards. If Edwards starts this year I hope he shows more improvement than he did his second year as a starter. He has the recievers and if they keep Peters a good left tackle to protect him. As Far as Edwards regressing last year, the statistics don't bear out your statement. As a whole, Edwards vastly improved last year in every statistical category. He has tremendous upside and with receivers on both sides of the field this year he will only get better this season. And please note, Edwards has not started 25 games yet. He has only started twenty. Let's see what he looks like over the first seven or eight games this year before we run him out of town. Continuity means a lot in the NFL. This year we finally have it. If Buffalo can't get to the playoffs this year, then we'll have to make some changes with the coaching staff and perhaps at QB too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrahammer Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I'm with ya all the way Dibs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 Look if everyplayer you mentioned on that list was good we wouldnt be 7-9 for three straight years now would we? Why not? Considering injuries, shoddy QB play, line troubles & bad coaching I'd say it's amazing that we have gone 7-9 for 3 straight years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I never said that anybody said trade every starter.....what I said was that virtually every good player we have regularly gets people strongly calling for them to be cut/traded.....with high support from many posters. This is usually done with little to no thought about the repercussions or logic of the cut/trade.....and quite honestly cuts out reasonable and rational football talk due to the basic hysteria of the many posters. I don't want to pick on you......but you provide a perfect example. You state..... "Many have said trade Peters, and I agree if he doesn't want to play and only wants to B word and moan, get his ass out of here..." What has actually happened this off-season in relation to Peters? Has he held out? Has he bitched & moaned? Has he acted like he doesn't want to play? NO. Last season he wanted a raise.....the Bills said "You're not getting one, but we'll give you one next year." It is now next year & they are negotiating the contract. Unless I'm mistaken, the only word to come out on the subject was 'reported' information stating that they were about $3mil apart at this point. Where is all this 'bitching & moaning' stuff being generated from? First off, this is cut and pasted right from your post: "I know....let's trade every starter.....we'll surely be able to re-build a superbowl team with all of the draft picks. " So dont say you didn't say it. Now what is there yet for Peters to hold out from yet? They haven't had anything to hold out from. We'll see when workouts start if he shows up. See if he is there when camp starts, my guess is no unless he gets traded or gets the money he so doesn't deserve. Another cut and pasted: "Has he held out? Has he bitched & moaned?" You haven't read about him stating he wants to be the highest paid LT in the AFC, with a statement like that he is more qualified to be a standup comic than a LT. One More: "the Bills said "You're not getting one, but we'll give you one next year." Where you there to get a direct quote like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrahammer Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 First off, this is cut and pasted right from your post: "I know....let's trade every starter.....we'll surely be able to re-build a superbowl team with all of the draft picks. " So dont say you didn't say it. Now what is there yet for Peters to hold out from yet? They haven't had anything to hold out from. We'll see when workouts start if he shows up. See if he is there when camp starts, my guess is no unless he gets traded or gets the money he so doesn't deserve. Another cut and pasted: "Has he held out? Has he bitched & moaned?" You haven't read about him stating he wants to be the highest paid LT in the AFC, with a statement like that he is more qualified to be a standup comic than a LT. One More: "the Bills said "You're not getting one, but we'll give you one next year." Where you there to get a direct quote like this? First off, "billsfreak", where is the link of Peters saying that, and even if he in fact did, HOW is that bitching and moaning? You're arguing for the sake of arguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 First off, "billsfreak", where is the link of Peters saying that, and even if he in fact did, HOW is that bitching and moaning? You're arguing for the sake of arguing. That is where you are way wrong, I am just pointing out facts, not dreams I had last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I have the ultimate solution. Let the Bills move. Case closed. I'm just as sick of the whining as you. Do you ever noticed the worst posts are from the people with less than 100 career posts? Friggin' Noobs. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrahammer Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 That is where you are way wrong, I am just pointing out facts, not dreams I had last night. Whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 House was a RT, not LT. He needs to follow his own advice... ...you really got to stop with this incomplete and inaccurate information you post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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