The Dean Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Agreed this is all splitting hairs & quite irrelevant now but.........why wasn't he at camp? Either he was told that he would not get an extension that year......or he was told they could work out a deal during the season & he wanted one worked out pre-season. Considering the 'effect' of a holdout......and also considering the fact he had 3 years left on a fairly recent existing contract.....I'd say it by far more likely the former rather than the later. I'm convinced (with absolutely no real evidence) that Peters' new agent (who wasn't on board for his previous deal) convinced him the Bills would cave if he sat out. Peters isn't the brightest bulb on the tree, and likely took his agent's advice at face value. I remember during the holdout, the Bills mentioned they couldn't even get in contact with Peters. This was about the same time they said they wouldn't negotiate if he didn't report (and I think also mentioned they would be open to talking, if he reported.) As it turned out, the Bills did not cave, and the agent had Peters report with the promise that, by reporting, the Bills would talk contract. I believe the Bills basically made that statement during training camp. The agent used it to show he got the Bills to budge, but the Bills had already "budged", if you will, far earlier. As bad as it was that the agent had Peters ear, without reservation, it might be to the Bills' advantage, this year, if he still believes his agent. I can't imagine this guy will go another year without getting his payday from Peters. Of course, if Peters "wised up" he may be in a position where he doesn't trust anyone...and that could go very badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Agreed this is all splitting hairs & quite irrelevant now but.........why wasn't he at camp? Either he was told that he would not get an extension that year......or he was told they could work out a deal during the season & he wanted one worked out pre-season. Considering the 'effect' of a holdout......and also considering the fact he had 3 years left on a fairly recent existing contract.....I'd say it by far more likely the former rather than the later. No need to go back and parse every word, it wasn't a mystery really. He wanted a new deal last year and the team didn't want to give him one. He asked, they said no and that was it. The notion that they won't negotiate with someone skipping the otas is silly, just as silly as all the carping that Peters was being silent. Pretty sure Brandon has Parker's phone number. There was simply nothing to negotiate. Peters took a shot at forcing the issue using the only leverage he had, it didn't work but it laid the foundation for a new deal this year and this year, they are negotiating. They might not reach agreement but the bottom line is that he is being offered a new deal with lots more cash long before the his current contract is up. Advantage Peters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I'm convinced (with absolutely no real evidence) that Peters' new agent (who wasn't on board for his previous deal) convinced him the Bills would cave if he sat out. Peters isn't the brightest bulb on the tree, and likely took his agent's advice at face value. I remember during the holdout, the Bills mentioned they couldn't even get in contact with Peters. This was about the same time they said they wouldn't negotiate if he didn't report (and I think also mentioned they would be open to talking, if he reported.) As it turned out, the Bills did not cave, and the agent had Peters report with the promise that, by reporting, the Bills would talk contract. I believe the Bills basically made that statement during training camp. The agent used it to show he got the Bills to budge, but the Bills had already "budged", if you will, far earlier. As bad as it was that the agent had Peters ear, without reservation, it might be to the Bills' advantage, this year, if he still believes his agent. I can't imagine this guy will go another year without getting his payday from Peters. Of course, if Peters "wised up" he may be in a position where he doesn't trust anyone...and that could go very badly. No reason the team would be less than honest in their public statements now is there? Did they ever say they couldn't reach his agent? That is who you negotiate a new deal with, not the player. And if you want to convince a team that you are not bluffing, that you really will hold out, maybe it wouldn't be a good idea to talk to the coaches. As for Peters being stupid, a constant refrain hereabouts, you might want to consider that Peters lost nothing at all by that hold out and gained a commitment by the team to give him a new deal this year despite the fact that he is still under contract and the team doesn't have to give him a new deal. So, tell me again how stupid Peters is. For being such a stupid guy, he sure seems to be doing okay for himself. We should all be so stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I'm convinced (with absolutely no real evidence) that Peters' new agent (who wasn't on board for his previous deal) convinced him the Bills would cave if he sat out..... I think that is probably true also.....but the issue in my head is why was Peters holding out? The only logical conclusion is that he asked for a raise and the Bills said "Not this year." At that point both parties are at an impasse which then left Peters with two options.....to accept things.....or hold out. The rhetoric from Bills FO about not negotiating until he got into camp was irrelevant since they were not going to be negotiating that season anyway. All pure speculation on my part.....but I can't really see any other logical progression of how things could have developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 No reason the team would be less than honest in their public statements now is there? Did they ever say they couldn't reach his agent? That is who you negotiate a new deal with, not the player. And if you want to convince a team that you are not bluffing, that you really will hold out, maybe it wouldn't be a good idea to talk to the coaches. As for Peters being stupid, a constant refrain hereabouts, you might want to consider that Peters lost nothing at all by that hold out and gained a commitment by the team to give him a new deal this year despite the fact that he is still under contract and the team doesn't have to give him a new deal. So, tell me again how stupid Peters is. For being such a stupid guy, he sure seems to be doing okay for himself. We should all be so stupid. I'm going to disagree with the bolded part. I sincerely believe the team had every intention of negotiating with him this year, as they stated as much. Had he come to camp, and played to the level of his ability, this year, he might be looking at a contract that is closer to what he is asking. He just may have cost himself some dough, with the holdout. Also, did the Bills waive the fines he was assessed, for missing camp, and preseason games? I'm not certain they totally waived all the fines...another loss for Peters. Now, while I agree that teams negotiate with agents, teams also can talk directly to players. This can help if the agent isn't negotiating in the best interest of the player, or isn't passing along all the information, or offers, the team has presented. I can see both sides of this, and I'm not convinced Peter's agent was working for Peters best interest, last year. After all, the holdout may not have cost Peters much, but it gained him NOTHING...unless, that is, the Bills were swayed by the holdout to renegotiate this year. I simply do not believe that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I think that is probably true also.....but the issue in my head is why was Peters holding out? The only logical conclusion is that he asked for a raise and the Bills said "Not this year." At that point both parties are at an impasse which then left Peters with two options.....to accept things.....or hold out. The rhetoric from Bills FO about not negotiating until he got into camp was irrelevant since they were not going to be negotiating that season anyway. All pure speculation on my part.....but I can't really see any other logical progression of how things could have developed. After the initial holdout, when Brandon stated they wouldn't negotiate until he came in (and also said he tried to contact Peters, but no calls were returned), I think the Bills were in a position to have some reasonable talks with Peters. They might have simply said, "we'll do the deal next year"...which is the same commitment he got, after holding out until the start of the season. I don't know if Peters got that message...I'm going to guess he did not. Clearly Peters' play this season has not helped his position, this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 The player that harrison hit blocked low at his knees. Harrison didn't take kindly to that. I don't blame him at all. He blocked low and never made it anywhere near his knees. That being said - his reaction was way over the top and he should have been ejected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 After the initial holdout, when Brandon stated they wouldn't negotiate until he came in (and also said he tried to contact Peters, but no calls were returned), I think the Bills were in a position to have some reasonable talks with Peters. They might have simply said, "we'll do the deal next year"...which is the same commitment he got, after holding out until the start of the season. I don't know if Peters got that message...I'm going to guess he did not. Clearly Peters' play this season has not helped his position, this year. Do you really think that when he initially asked for a raise and told "Not this year" that they wouldn't have already decided that they would re-work the deal the next year.....and told him as such(give or take)? Everyone knew he was a shining young talent on the rise and was being underpaid.....IMO the Bills would have(should have) known they would most likely be re-working Peters' deal in 2009 even before he asked for a raise. And yes.....I totally agree that his play last season(as the result of the holdout) has not helped his position this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Maybe it's just the pessimist in me, but why not wait until he actually shows up to camp before you pat him on the back for how he handles the negotiation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Do you really think that when he initially asked for a raise and told "Not this year" that they wouldn't have already decided that they would re-work the deal the next year.....and told him as such(give or take)? Everyone knew he was a shining young talent on the rise and was being underpaid.....IMO the Bills would have(should have) known they would most likely be re-working Peters' deal in 2009 even before he asked for a raise. And yes.....I totally agree that his play last season(as the result of the holdout) has not helped his position this year. Like I said, there is plenty of blame to go around. I definitely blame the Bills for not renegotiating last year, or assuring him he would be taken care of, this year. Actually, I would have given him a new contract last year, or some kind of a surprise bonus, to let him know he was appreciated and that the Bills would take care of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Like I said, there is plenty of blame to go around. I definitely blame the Bills for not renegotiating last year, or assuring him he would be taken care of, this year. Actually, I would have given him a new contract last year, or some kind of a surprise bonus, to let him know he was appreciated and that the Bills would take care of him. What a good idea.....I think that would have gone a very long way. Imagine......"Sorry Jason, you have 3 years left on your current contract so we are not going to re-work it till next season.....but come mid year we will give you a $1mil bonus as we appreciate all you are doing...." Me thinks things might have panned out a bit differently had that happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I'm going to disagree with the bolded part. I sincerely believe the team had every intention of negotiating with him this year, as they stated as much. Had he come to camp, and played to the level of his ability, this year, he might be looking at a contract that is closer to what he is asking. He just may have cost himself some dough, with the holdout. Also, did the Bills waive the fines he was assessed, for missing camp, and preseason games? I'm not certain they totally waived all the fines...another loss for Peters. Now, while I agree that teams negotiate with agents, teams also can talk directly to players. This can help if the agent isn't negotiating in the best interest of the player, or isn't passing along all the information, or offers, the team has presented. I can see both sides of this, and I'm not convinced Peter's agent was working for Peters best interest, last year. After all, the holdout may not have cost Peters much, but it gained him NOTHING...unless, that is, the Bills were swayed by the holdout to renegotiate this year. I simply do not believe that is the case. There is no proof at all that he has had to pay any fines at all and the usual practice is for them to be waived. The Bills wanted him in last year asap and are trying to sign him now, trying to make those fines stick would not exactly have helped bring him in finally last year nor given Peters the warm and fuzzies during the negotiations this year. So unless something different happened here than what happens 99% of the time, my bet is that the fines were waived in to-to. As for willingness to negotiate last year, the reason I am sure they were not willing to do so is the simple fact that they didn't. Again, unless they somehow lost the agents phone number, all it would have took is a phone call anytime last offseason. They started negotiating Schobel's deal long before training camp and even so, he skipped 4 OTA's to let them know he was serious if the negotiating didn't keep moving. Unless Peters' agent is a moron, and his success in the league certainly speaks otherwise, there is no way he would not have hopped on a plane if Brandon had called in March of 2008 and offered to talk turkey. The press conference Brandon called to lambaste Peters at the start of camp was a big mistake and every word of it was for PR purposes. If he wanted to send a message to Peters, all he had to do was to call his agent, no need to do it through the press. So the only reason to do what he did was to get the fans on his side and frankly, it worked like a charm. It was the classless act of an inexperienced GM in my opinion. Whenever a player or a team goes to the press in these situations it is for the purpose of getting the fans to blame the other guy. In that light, there is no way Brandon is going to give a press conference to inform the fans that Peters asked for the same treatment they gave Schobel the year before and would hold out if he didn't and that the team told him that wasn't going to happen. That wouldn't have cast Peters and his agent as villains. Instead, it would have presented was really the difficult truth, Peters is better than his contract so he has a point and the Bills already tore up on contract for him so they had a point. The hardest disputes to settle are the ones where both sides are right. Maybe his new deal this year won't be as good as the one he would have had otherwise, we will likely never know. For now though, he has lost nothing and given how much he would fetch on the open market, I think he did nothing but help himself last year. He is under contract, totally stuck and his only weapon was to take a stab at a hold out which he did and when they called his bluff, he folded his tent having laid the foundation for a new deal this year. Certainly, reasonable minds can disagree with my view on this but to characterize Peters and his agent as being stupid, is simply not warranted and is more the product of all the anger he caused last year with the hold out. The team definitely won the PR battle there but for Peters, I don't think that will matter in the long run. The fans for his new team won't give a frack that the Buffalo fans despise him, they will just be thankful that we were foolish enough to give up a pro bowl LT. The way this is going, I can't see why Peters wouldn't bolt Buffalo the first chance he gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Maybe it's just the pessimist in me, but why not wait until he actually shows up to camp before you pat him on the back for how he handles the negotiation. Because treating him with a complete lack of respect is probably not the best way to get him contractually locked up with numbers you can live with. If you want to inuslt him, for him to become entrenched in his position, if you want him to want out of Buffalo the first chance he gets and if you want do all you can to make sure that a very difficult negotiation for both sides never bears fruit, that would be a great idea. Right up there with calling Peters out publicly at the start of camp last year. That worked out just great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 i lost all respect for james harrison in the super bowl. he is a dirty player and i could care less what he does in workouts. I lost all respect for james harrison last summer when he beat his girlfriend. And i lost a ton of respect for the steelers last summer when they kept harrison, not long after cutting cedric wilson for the exact same infraction and claiming they didn't want players like Wilson on their roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 It was an analogy. It doesn't matter, apparently. You'll still get roasted for them here. I'm surprised KnockOut30 isn't all over you for yours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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