PushthePile Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Can we agree that we should give TE a full season with TO and Evans? 100 percent! I have nothing against Trent. I think he's a nice kid and is easy to root for. He's far easier to root for than Cutler, IMO. He has done enough to be given the keys for another full season. With all that being said I still have some serious doubts about his game. The transition from where he's at now, to the next level, will be the hardest of his career.
Alphadawg7 Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 why do you dislike Edwards so much? I mean he has had better #'s than most qb's in their first season, he has won more games then lost when he is at the helm. It's not like he has had more wins and decent #'s for a team that is good. It's not like our great D has carried us to victories. Or that we have had tremendous talent around him. As a matter of fact, it's been the opposite Where is all this disdain over Edwards coming from? I dont dislike Edwards, I actually like him and believe he has potential...when I talk about him, I talk about his actual play thus far, so it seems I dont like him because his play thus far has been sub par. Truth is, I do like him and think he can get better, but he is not there yet and the fact he regressed last year concerns me. I also get frustrated when he is anoited better than QB's who clearly have put more together than him. Its annoying to see people nit pick a few games on Cutler when Edwards had a 4 game stretch last year where he was one of the worst in football going for 2 TD's and 10 turnovers. The lengths people will go to try and prop Edwards up to be more than he has thus far is just astonishing. Does he have potential, Yes. Has he realized it yet, No. Cutler on the other hand has improved every year and I guarantee you that no GM in football would take Edwards over Cutler right now straight up...not one...and they know more about evaluating talent than we do... 1. Why do people talk about Cutler not winning a playoff game yet (after only 2 full seasons as QB) when Edwards hasnt won one either? 2. Why do people talk about Denvers 8-8 record as if its all Cutlers fault? I mean no one, and I mean no one, in football would say Denver didnt make the playoffs because they need a better QB. You put our D and ST in Denver (and we were just average on D) and they easily win their division and probably win 12 games. 3. Why do people prop up Edwards record as if its anything special...its barely .500 and in all honesty, 3 wins where he started for us last year were wins because of big scoring plays late from Greer, Mitchell, and ST, not because of Trent. We won those games in spite of Trent's struggles, not becaue of great play from Trent. None of this means Trent cant improve...he clearly has potential. But to say he is a better option than Cutler at this exact point in their careers is crazy. And, hate to break it to you, Edwards made more bad decisions last year, including ones that cost us games that were games we needed to win, than Cutler did. If people want to speculate on who will have the better career, then fine. But to outright say he is better than Cutler is comical...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 100 percent! I have nothing against Trent. I think he's a nice kid and is easy to root for. He's far easier to root for than Cutler, IMO. He has done enough to be given the keys for another full season. With all that being said I still have some serious doubts about his game. The transition from where he's at now, to the next level, will be the hardest of his career. I totally agree...
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 100 percent! I have nothing against Trent. I think he's a nice kid and is easy to root for. He's far easier to root for than Cutler, IMO. He has done enough to be given the keys for another full season. With all that being said I still have some serious doubts about his game. The transition from where he's at now, to the next level, will be the hardest of his career. Well said. Although I think Cutler is and will be a better QB, that doesn't take away from the fact that I still think Edwards can be a good one in this league as well.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 AD7, whether you meant to or not, i think you showed us all the real point in all of this... there isnt one. Edwards and Cutler are basically the same player at this point. Cutler with way more hype and the bigger arm. Edwards with more maturity and brains. You can switch in either name or team into either side of any of the points youve made. and they have all been good points. i guess overall, what it comes down to is, Would the Bills really go through all the trouble and possibly throw away all team chemistry and bring in a player who has proven his immaturity, to be a leader of the team who just brought in TO? you guys can try to debate which QB is "better" even though they are both good in very different ways and most of the criteria you guys are judging on is subjective at best. ill stick with our guy. this is trent's team. until the players and coaches start giving up on him like they did JP, he's our guy. I dont dislike Edwards, I actually like him and believe he has potential...when I talk about him, I talk about his actual play thus far, so it seems I dont like him because his play thus far has been sub par. Truth is, I do like him and think he can get better, but he is not there yet and the fact he regressed last year concerns me. I also get frustrated when he is anoited better than QB's who clearly have put more together than him. Its annoying to see people nit pick a few games on Cutler when Edwards had a 4 game stretch last year where he was one of the worst in football going for 2 TD's and 10 turnovers. The lengths people will go to try and prop Edwards up to be more than he has thus far is just astonishing. Does he have potential, Yes. Has he realized it yet, No. Cutler on the other hand has improved every year and I guarantee you that no GM in football would take Edwards over Cutler right now straight up...not one...and they know more about evaluating talent than we do... 1. Why do people talk about Cutler/Edwards not winning a playoff game yet (after only 2 full seasons as QB) when Edwards/Cutler hasnt won one either? 2. Why do people talk about Denvers/Buffalos 8-8 record as if its all Cutlers/Edwards fault? 3. Why do people prop up Edwards/Cutlers record as if its anything special...its barely .500 and in all honesty, 3 wins where he started for us last year were wins because of big scoring plays late from Greer, Mitchell, and ST, not because of Trent. We won those games in spite of Trent's struggles, not becaue of great play from Trent. None of this means Trent cant improve...he clearly has potential. But to say he is a better option than Cutler at this exact point in their careers is crazy. And, hate to break it to you, Edwards made more bad decisions last year, including ones that cost us games that were games we needed to win, than Cutler did. If people want to speculate on who will have the better career, then fine. But to outright say he is better than Cutler is comical...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 QB rating of 74, 73, 74 2 tds and 4 int's, in his last three games. The pressure was on, they had the big lead, they pretty much had it wrapped up, and he had 3 of his more mediocre games of the year, when it counted most. Ok, you want to talk about that key 3 game stretch where he was mediocre, what about Trents 4 game stretch where he was awful... Edwards 4 game stretch where we lost our 3 first divisional games (the first 3 games in this 4 game stretch) and followed it up with a loss against Cle, which essentially eliminated us from any reasonable playoff hopes... 67.2, 79.3, 49.2, 50.3 with 3 TD's and 10 turnovers...where was his poise and decision making then? And this wasnt the end of his bad games, just pointing to the most critical 4 games of the year... Oh, and we had the lead too going into our divisional games...we were in PRIME postion to make the playoffs and even win our division...but this 4 game skid all but ended it...and Edwards was the QB in ALL of them... And in our fabled 4-0 start, look at how he did in games 2, 3, and 4... Jax game: 1 TD, 2 turnovers Raiders game: 1 TD, 2 turnovers Rams game: 1 TD, 1 Turnover Thats 3 TD's and 5 turnovers...we didnt win because of Trent, we won in spite of Trent. And for the season, Trent passed for 11 TD's but turned the ball over 16 times...Yet you and others are trying to make a case for him being better than a guy who threw for 4500 yards in only his 2nd year as a starter and 25 TD's despite a running game that saw every RB they have go on IR at some point, a #1 WR who was suspended for 2 games and a rookie midget #2 WR... Oh, and in Cutlers first year as a starter (2007) he still had 20 TD's which is still more than Trents whole 23 game career... Again, I like Edwards potential, but be reasonable here on these comparisons...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 AD7, whether you meant to or not, i think you showed us all the real point in all of this... there isnt one. Edwards and Cutler are basically the same player at this point. Cutler with way more hype and the bigger arm. Edwards with more maturity and brains. You can switch in either name or team into either side of any of the points youve made. and they have all been good points. i guess overall, what it comes down to is, Would the Bills really go through all the trouble and possibly throw away all team chemistry and bring in a player who has proven his immaturity, to be a leader of the team who just brought in TO? you guys can try to debate which QB is "better" even though they are both good in very different ways and most of the criteria you guys are judging on is subjective at best. ill stick with our guy. this is trent's team. until the players and coaches start giving up on him like they did JP, he's our guy. good post...Although there is no amount or reasoning that will ever convince me (or probably any GM in football for that matter) that Edwards has been better than Cutler, I still think Edwards can become a good QB and this is the year for him to do it. If he doesnt put it together though this year with all these weapons, we are going to have to look elsewhere in 2010. That is assuming he isnt traded to Den
DrDawkinstein Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 im not saying either one is better than the other. i think theyre the exact same at this point. its a wash. 6 of 1, half dozen of the other. same but different. etc cliche etc
jwws9999 Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 good post...Although there is no amount or reasoning that will ever convince me (or probably any GM in football for that matter) that Edwards has been better than Cutler, I still think Edwards can become a good QB and this is the year for him to do it. If he doesnt put it together though this year with all these weapons, we are going to have to look elsewhere in 2010. That is assuming he isnt traded to Den Edwards sucks, he has a weak arm, is always hurt, and won't be able to throw in Buffalo in cold weather games. we'd be lucky to get Cutler, and immediately be a playoff contender
300yrds Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Can we agree that we should give TE a full season with TO and Evans? Yeah I mean c'mon, if it doesnt work, we will go out and find another competent QB to throw to Lee and TO somebody mediocre next year. This is do or die for Edwards, He either claims his place in Buffalo this year or is kicked to the curb, with the weapons he has, mediocre play is not an option...do you have faith in TE's play, that he will come out ready to go for 16 games of very good football. I have questions, and with the offense in place would liek somebody behind center with a few less question marks, since our offense will be sub par again next year.
Magox Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Ok, you want to talk about that key 3 game stretch where he was mediocre, what about Trents 4 game stretch where he was awful... Edwards 4 game stretch where we lost our 3 first divisional games (the first 3 games in this 4 game stretch) and followed it up with a loss against Cle, which essentially eliminated us from any reasonable playoff hopes... 67.2, 79.3, 49.2, 50.3 with 3 TD's and 10 turnovers...where was his poise and decision making then? And this wasnt the end of his bad games, just pointing to the most critical 4 games of the year... Oh, and we had the lead too going into our divisional games...we were in PRIME postion to make the playoffs and even win our division...but this 4 game skid all but ended it...and Edwards was the QB in ALL of them... And in our fabled 4-0 start, look at how he did in games 2, 3, and 4... Jax game: 1 TD, 2 turnovers Raiders game: 1 TD, 2 turnovers Rams game: 1 TD, 1 Turnover Thats 3 TD's and 5 turnovers...we didnt win because of Trent, we won in spite of Trent. And for the season, Trent passed for 11 TD's but turned the ball over 16 times...Yet you and others are trying to make a case for him being better than a guy who threw for 4500 yards in only his 2nd year as a starter and 25 TD's despite a running game that saw every RB they have go on IR at some point, a #1 WR who was suspended for 2 games and a rookie midget #2 WR... Oh, and in Cutlers first year as a starter (2007) he still had 20 TD's which is still more than Trents whole 23 game career... Again, I like Edwards potential, but be reasonable here on these comparisons... no no major difference. First off, Cutler's game's were undoubtedly games where he had to win, and he didn't. The games you mention about Edwards, last I remember, is that in clutch time, when he had to perform, he did. That is the bottom line Alpha. You don't value wins like I do. You see, to break it down, and I know you know this, but it has to be put into perspective for you. The responsability of the qb, first and formost is to win. That is his job. To manage the situation to where they can score more points than their opposition. In those games that you mentioned regarding Edwards, you say in spite of him. Please Alpha, give me a break. Edwards had the second highest 4th quarter qb rating in all of football. Now you can disregard that, as I know you will, because you do seem to turn the blind eye to anything he does, but when they need him most, he comes through. So you say in spite of him, but people who have an unbiased view knows that he is the main reason why we won those games. But were you serious when you said in spite of him? I mean really, were you serious? Let's recap here. We tried running the ball that game 25 carries for a whopping 76 yards. Ya, it must of been the running game. But hold on he was 20-25 with a td and 0 int's. oh and I forgot, the game winning drive to win the game. ok alpha, your argument for the jax game is really weak, you have to admit that. The Raiders game, we had 30 carries for 116 yards, a little better, but not dominant at all. Trent was 24-39 for 279 yds 1 td and 1int against one of the best defensive backfields in all of football. Oh and did I mention, that he led us to 3 scoring drives in the 4th quarter, with the game winning drive. 2 scoring drives in the last 6:30. Ya, but that isn't important is it? In spite of him right? So you don't have a case here either. The Rams game, we had 31 rushes for 111 yards, another game where it wasn't a dominating rushing game. 15-25 197 yards 1 td 1 int. We were losing going into the 4th quarter, we scored 18 points. Do you see a commonality here? In the games you say we won in spite of him, he had well over a 90 qb rating, led us to 3 4th quarter wins. So I understand that you don't like him, and you want another qb in there, and you can't say that you do want him here, because it is obvious that you don't. But please, if you are going to bring up games and make crazy statements, at least make correct statements. I am glad that you specifically brought up those 3 games, because when I went back and looked at the stats, and remembered the circumstances, it is the exact reason why we I want Trent as our qb. He struggled in parts of the game, but at the end of the day, he would lead us to victory, 4th quarter comebacks in every single one of those games. Not to mention he had well over a 90 qb rating at an average in those games.
BuffaloBill Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 If Cutler's side of the story is true he is right in seeking a trade. I suppose there are always two sides to every coin though. Not a good situation for him or Denver. McDaniels has to realize that if he does not find another QB quickly that Cutler can burn him by not attending voluntary camps etc. IF Denver slips badly Bowen will be looking for a new coach and a new QB.
ChasBB Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805 I don't want him though. Detroit can have him. I don't want that puss-y either. What a big crybaby. We don't need that kind of leadership. I'll take Edwards.
ax4782 Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 I dont dislike Edwards, I actually like him and believe he has potential...when I talk about him, I talk about his actual play thus far, so it seems I dont like him because his play thus far has been sub par. Truth is, I do like him and think he can get better, but he is not there yet and the fact he regressed last year concerns me. I also get frustrated when he is anoited better than QB's who clearly have put more together than him. Its annoying to see people nit pick a few games on Cutler when Edwards had a 4 game stretch last year where he was one of the worst in football going for 2 TD's and 10 turnovers. The lengths people will go to try and prop Edwards up to be more than he has thus far is just astonishing. Does he have potential, Yes. Has he realized it yet, No. Cutler on the other hand has improved every year and I guarantee you that no GM in football would take Edwards over Cutler right now straight up...not one...and they know more about evaluating talent than we do... 1. Why do people talk about Cutler not winning a playoff game yet (after only 2 full seasons as QB) when Edwards hasnt won one either? 2. Why do people talk about Denvers 8-8 record as if its all Cutlers fault? I mean no one, and I mean no one, in football would say Denver didnt make the playoffs because they need a better QB. You put our D and ST in Denver (and we were just average on D) and they easily win their division and probably win 12 games. 3. Why do people prop up Edwards record as if its anything special...its barely .500 and in all honesty, 3 wins where he started for us last year were wins because of big scoring plays late from Greer, Mitchell, and ST, not because of Trent. We won those games in spite of Trent's struggles, not becaue of great play from Trent. None of this means Trent cant improve...he clearly has potential. But to say he is a better option than Cutler at this exact point in their careers is crazy. And, hate to break it to you, Edwards made more bad decisions last year, including ones that cost us games that were games we needed to win, than Cutler did. If people want to speculate on who will have the better career, then fine. But to outright say he is better than Cutler is comical... What's frustrating is when people make claims based on stats, and the stats don't meet the claim. You say Cutler is so much better than Edwards based on the stats, and that he is clearly the more complete Quarterback. Fine, then let's look at the actual statistics of both players from last season as accessed from ESPN.com and see how you're theory stacks up. Here's the link for those who are interested: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?s...2&year=2008 Just for fun, here are the stats listed at the above link. Jay Cutler 2008 Comp. Att. % Yds YPA LG TD TD% INT INT% Sack SYds Rating 384 616 62.3 4526 7.35 93 25 4.1 18 2.9 11.0 69 86.0 Trent Edwards 2008 Comp. Att. % Yds YPA LG TD TD% INT INT% Sack SYds Rating 245 374 65.5 2699 7.22 65 11 2.9 10 2.7 23.0 143 85.4 Let's also note that they were rated 16th and 17th overall respectively in the league last year. That being said, look at the numbers. Cutler had 242 more passing attempts than Edwards, and 139 more completions. Blame that on Denver's lack of a run game, or whatever, there's the statistics. Also, keep in mind that these are Edwards' stats over fourteen games last year, not sixteen. He would have had more attempts and more yards, likely over 3000 had he started those additional two games. Even still, Edwards is a more accurate passer by the percentages. His YPA is the same as Cutler's, he has a lower INT% than Cutler and they have virtually the same QB rating. (.6 on the rating scale, even over a full season, is a small differential). Cutler did throw for more interceptions, but at the same time he threw that many more passes. Same could be said for the INTs, but that's why the percentages are important. There is little difference between their performances last year, so to say that Cutler was so much better is bogus. Now for your second argument, that Cutler improved so much more than Edwards, who you claim regressed. Well, the numbers, as you've been trying to cite them, don't match up there either. Let's look at 2007 just for craps and giggles. Here's the link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?s...2&year=2007 Jay Cutler 2007 Comp. Att. % Yds YPA LG TD TD% INT INT% Sack SYds Rating 297 467 63.6 3497 7.49 68 20 4.3 14 3.0 27.0 153 88.1 Trent Edwards 2007 Comp. Att. % Yds YPA LG TD TD% INT INT% Sack SYds Rating 151 269 56.1 1630 6.06 70 7 2.6 8 3.0 12.0 105 70.4 Anyone else see the pattern. Oh yeah, CUTLER was the QB who actually got worse in 2008. He was the 12th rated QB in 2007, had a better completion percentage, touchdown percentage, yards per attempt and overall QB rating. Trent, on the other hand improved in every single statistical category except his longest pass completion in 08 was not as good as 07. I guess that must be the stat you were basing your statements on. Aren't statistics fun? I think so. Okay, so let's look at your other complaints in the analysis shall we? You wonder why people prop up Edwards when our D won us three games, in your estimation. First, I'd ask you to be more specific concerning which three games those were. The two Greer picks are pretty obvious, but please clarify the third. I assume, having watched all 16 games, that you are referring to the SD game, but that might be a stretch to say the Mitchell's interception won us that game. TE played pretty well that day. That being said, how many teams that win in football don't count on their defense to help out in critical situations. You think the Ravens have been this good for so long without a defense that makes plays at critical times? I think not. Your argument has nothing to do with whether or not Trent is comparable to Cutler based on wins and losses. Now, as to your other chief complaint, that Edwards had this three game stretch of losses where he had 2 TDs and 10 INTs. Well, that, strictly speaking is inaccurate, just looking at his statistics page on ESPN. The link follows: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=10536 Looking at said link, the only stretch you could be referring to was a four game losing streak between weeks 8 and 11. The Cleveland game was one we should have won, and didn't, not because Trent played badly (though it wasn't his greatest first quarter in history) but because our vaunted special teams failed to convert a relatively easy field goal. The three games prior to that, however, are the ones I assume you are referring to. During that three game stretch you can see that Trent did only throw 2 TDs. He did, however, only throw 5 INTs, so that takes your overexaggerated ratio right back down to earth. In fairness, then, let's look at Cutler's worst three game stretch of the season last year statistically. Here's the link for those numbers: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=9597 Taking a look, his worst three games came at the worst possible time, the last three weeks of the season when they needed to win only one game to assure themselves of a playoff birth. I guess he couldn't perform under pressure. During that stretch of games Cutler threw 2 TDs and 4 INTs. Slightly better than Edwards, but not much. Then let's look at the competition each of those QBs had those stats against. Trent played against the Dolphins, Jets, and Patriots. They were ranked 15th, 16th and 10th overall defenses respectively. Cutler had is terrible play against Carolina, Buffalo, and San Diego the 18th, 14th, and 25th ranked defenses in the league. On average, Edwards had his worst play against teams that were on average, better than the teams Cutler played his worst games against. Just wanted to point out that the statistics are not on your side here. Please stop this nonsense about Cutler being the more complete QB and being more improved than Edwards and finally putting it together last year. He regressed, in some categories significantly, while Edwards improved as a QB in EVERY SINGLE STATISTICAL CATEGORY. This crap about needing to trade Edwards for another QB who IMO is highly overrated with offensive weapons he had needs to stop. With the numbers Edwards had last year with our anemic offense imagin what he could have done in Denver. JUST SAY NO TO A CUTLER TRADE!
ax4782 Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Edwards sucks, he has a weak arm, is always hurt, and won't be able to throw in Buffalo in cold weather games. we'd be lucky to get Cutler, and immediately be a playoff contender I smell a bull setting excrement down in a field somewhere. I love stupid statements not backed up by any sort of facts whatsoever. Cutler didn't make Denver a playoff contender with that great arm and a much better offense than we had last year, so what the makes you think he's going to be SOOOOOO much better here in the Bflo?
ChasBB Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Anyone else see the pattern. Oh yeah, CUTLER was the QB who actually got worse in 2008. GREAT POST!!! The facts ought to shut people up, but some people like to ignore facts. I like Edwards. I like his development. He'll continue to improve.
Magox Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 What's frustrating is when people make claims based on stats, and the stats don't meet the claim. You say Cutler is so much better than Edwards based on the stats, and that he is clearly the more complete Quarterback. Fine, then let's look at the actual statistics of both players from last season as accessed from ESPN.com and see how you're theory stacks up. Here's the link for those who are interested: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?s...2&year=2008 Just for fun, here are the stats listed at the above link. Jay Cutler 2008 Comp. Att. % Yds YPA LG TD TD% INT INT% Sack SYds Rating 384 616 62.3 4526 7.35 93 25 4.1 18 2.9 11.0 69 86.0 Trent Edwards 2008 Comp. Att. % Yds YPA LG TD TD% INT INT% Sack SYds Rating 245 374 65.5 2699 7.22 65 11 2.9 10 2.7 23.0 143 85.4 Let's also note that they were rated 16th and 17th overall respectively in the league last year. That being said, look at the numbers. Cutler had 242 more passing attempts than Edwards, and 139 more completions. Blame that on Denver's lack of a run game, or whatever, there's the statistics. Also, keep in mind that these are Edwards' stats over fourteen games last year, not sixteen. He would have had more attempts and more yards, likely over 3000 had he started those additional two games. Even still, Edwards is a more accurate passer by the percentages. His YPA is the same as Cutler's, he has a lower INT% than Cutler and they have virtually the same QB rating. (.6 on the rating scale, even over a full season, is a small differential). Cutler did throw for more interceptions, but at the same time he threw that many more passes. Same could be said for the INTs, but that's why the percentages are important. There is little difference between their performances last year, so to say that Cutler was so much better is bogus. Now for your second argument, that Cutler improved so much more than Edwards, who you claim regressed. Well, the numbers, as you've been trying to cite them, don't match up there either. Let's look at 2007 just for craps and giggles. Here's the link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?s...2&year=2007 Jay Cutler 2007 Comp. Att. % Yds YPA LG TD TD% INT INT% Sack SYds Rating 297 467 63.6 3497 7.49 68 20 4.3 14 3.0 27.0 153 88.1 Trent Edwards 2007 Comp. Att. % Yds YPA LG TD TD% INT INT% Sack SYds Rating 151 269 56.1 1630 6.06 70 7 2.6 8 3.0 12.0 105 70.4 Anyone else see the pattern. Oh yeah, CUTLER was the QB who actually got worse in 2008. He was the 12th rated QB in 2007, had a better completion percentage, touchdown percentage, yards per attempt and overall QB rating. Trent, on the other hand improved in every single statistical category except his longest pass completion in 08 was not as good as 07. I guess that must be the stat you were basing your statements on. Aren't statistics fun? I think so. Okay, so let's look at your other complaints in the analysis shall we? You wonder why people prop up Edwards when our D won us three games, in your estimation. First, I'd ask you to be more specific concerning which three games those were. The two Greer picks are pretty obvious, but please clarify the third. I assume, having watched all 16 games, that you are referring to the SD game, but that might be a stretch to say the Mitchell's interception won us that game. TE played pretty well that day. That being said, how many teams that win in football don't count on their defense to help out in critical situations. You think the Ravens have been this good for so long without a defense that makes plays at critical times? I think not. Your argument has nothing to do with whether or not Trent is comparable to Cutler based on wins and losses. Now, as to your other chief complaint, that Edwards had this three game stretch of losses where he had 2 TDs and 10 INTs. Well, that, strictly speaking is inaccurate, just looking at his statistics page on ESPN. The link follows: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=10536 Looking at said link, the only stretch you could be referring to was a four game losing streak between weeks 8 and 11. The Cleveland game was one we should have won, and didn't, not because Trent played badly (though it wasn't his greatest first quarter in history) but because our vaunted special teams failed to convert a relatively easy field goal. The three games prior to that, however, are the ones I assume you are referring to. During that three game stretch you can see that Trent did only throw 2 TDs. He did, however, only throw 5 INTs, so that takes your overexaggerated ratio right back down to earth. In fairness, then, let's look at Cutler's worst three game stretch of the season last year statistically. Here's the link for those numbers: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=9597 Taking a look, his worst three games came at the worst possible time, the last three weeks of the season when they needed to win only one game to assure themselves of a playoff birth. I guess he couldn't perform under pressure. During that stretch of games Cutler threw 2 TDs and 4 INTs. Slightly better than Edwards, but not much. Then let's look at the competition each of those QBs had those stats against. Trent played against the Dolphins, Jets, and Patriots. They were ranked 15th, 16th and 10th overall defenses respectively. Cutler had is terrible play against Carolina, Buffalo, and San Diego the 18th, 14th, and 25th ranked defenses in the league. On average, Edwards had his worst play against teams that were on average, better than the teams Cutler played his worst games against. Just wanted to point out that the statistics are not on your side here. Please stop this nonsense about Cutler being the more complete QB and being more improved than Edwards and finally putting it together last year. He regressed, in some categories significantly, while Edwards improved as a QB in EVERY SINGLE STATISTICAL CATEGORY. This crap about needing to trade Edwards for another QB who IMO is highly overrated with offensive weapons he had needs to stop. With the numbers Edwards had last year with our anemic offense imagin what he could have done in Denver. JUST SAY NO TO A CUTLER TRADE! No offense Alpha, because other than your view on Edwards, you have some intelligible views on football. but the most ridiculous part of his argument is when he said that they win in spite of him. THen the three games he mentioned, are 3 games that they won because of Trent. THree come from behind victories. 2 of them in real clutch situations. Sure he struggled in parts of those games, but the bottom line is, when they needed him most, he pulled through. And yes he did struggle during certain stretches of the season, but that is to be expected out of any first year qb. If you go back to Cutler's first full year, he had 3 games where he had less than a 50 qb rating. So, it is normal for 1st year qb's to struggle. But all in all, Trent showed that he can win games for us in the clutch. Cutler hasn't shown that ability on a consistant basis, andd when they needed Cutler the most, he didn't deliver. That's the bottom line. Hence, the qb controversy in Denver
ax4782 Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 No offense Alpha, because other than your view on Edwards, you have some intelligible views on football. but the most ridiculous part of his argument is when he said that they win in spite of him. THen the three games he mentioned, are 3 games that they won because of Trent. THree come from behind victories. 2 of them in real clutch situations. Sure he struggled in parts of those games, but the bottom line is, when they needed him most, he pulled through. And yes he did struggle during certain stretches of the season, but that is to be expected out of any first year qb. If you go back to Cutler's first full year, he had 3 games where he had less than a 50 qb rating. So, it is normal for 1st year qb's to struggle. But all in all, Trent showed that he can win games for us in the clutch. Cutler hasn't shown that ability on a consistant basis, andd when they needed Cutler the most, he didn't deliver. That's the bottom line. Hence, the qb controversy in Denver Completely agree. And unfortunately for Alpha on this point, the statistics just aren't with him.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Hot pocket mentality. PTR Ooooooor it could be that he single-handedly flushed the Bills' season last year with stellar performances against the Fish, Jets, Patriots and Browns with a STELLAR 3TD to 8INT ratio. Beautiful. Talk about CLUTCH!
Fingon Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Ooooooor it could be that he single-handedly flushed the Bills' season last year with stellar performances against the Fish, Jets, Patriots and Browns with a STELLAR 3TD to 8INT ratio. Beautiful. Talk about CLUTCH! Would Cutler have done any better with this team? Teams would have just doubled Evans and stacked the box. We only had 1 receiver last year (Bronco's had eddie royal and brandon marshall), and no receiving TE. He would have no one to throw to. Not to mention Denver's O-line is far superior to ours.
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