bizell Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Right there you show your ignorance. Jay Cutler had: a great offensive line, great WR, very good #2, a very good pass catching TE, AND a great running game. When was the last time Trent had that? Cutler was merely average last year, even though he had great talent on the offensive side of the ball. their 'great running game' had 20 more yards than buffalo, and one less touchdown, actually.
Magox Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Do we really need to dissect Edwards record in must win situations? I'm assuming you watched a few games last year and don't need a recap, right? If my memory serves me correctly he wasn't exactly on fire down the stretch. This is your cue for the ready made he had a concussion for half the year, nonsense. Hey Genius Where in this thread did I compare him with Edwards? Before you make any asinine assumptions, you should first read before you type anything. Secondly, if you want to keep making excuses for this Cutler, then that is your prerogative. Bottom line, is like I mentioned before, He hasn't produced when they needed him. that is a fact. That he has played well below his average performance when they needed him. that is a fact. Keep making excuses for him. I know Mcdaniels isn't
Fingon Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 their 'great running game' had 20 more yards than buffalo, and one less touchdown, actually. 4.8 yards per carry. Which is second in the NFL.
cash2cap Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Lets look at the facts. His full body of work is the 16 game season not 2, 3 or 4 games. 4,000+ yards, 25 TDs and a higher QB rating than Edwards. Everything else is just noise. Facts point to case that he is an improvement over Edwards. What your failing to understand Alpha, is his ability to play in the clutch. He screwed up multiple times against the Bills. In critical junctures of the game, he makes big mistakes. Not just in the Bills game. J. Cutler 33/49 316 1 2 was his stat line against the chargers Good gunslinging numbers right? Note the 2 int's It was over when ... Chargers DE Luis Castillo intercepted a Jay Cutler pass inside the Broncos' 20-yard line, setting up LaDainian Tomlinson's third touchdown of the game -- a 14-yard run -- on the following play. there is no doubt that he has talent, but he is a crybaby, has a losing record, and makes big mistakes when the game is on the line. So far he has only 2 full seasons behind him, and he has shown promise, but he doesn't play well when they need him. Think about it. You can make all the excuses in the world you want to about him. But all they had to do was beat Buffalo at home. You can make the argument of not putting too much stock into it, but it is an important factor. The factor that you don't want to ignore. But the facts of the matter are that when they needed him most, he failed. 3 games. All they had to do was win one. 3 games Alpha. 0 victories. But forget about the victories, here are the facts 3 games. One victory and they are in. So let's see how he did. He had a 74.3 qb rating against Carolina and they put up only 10 points. 1 Td 1 int He had a 72.4 qb rating against the Bills at home and had 0 tds and 1 int. he had a 74.9 qb rating against SD and had 1 td and 2 int's. 2 td's and 4 int's in their final 3 games. hmm No wonder Mcdaniels has second thoughts about him. These are facts. So let's not go just with the he had no defense argument. Bottom line is he was a very mediocre qb when they needed him most. 0 clutch ability. 0 wins in three opportunites. 1 win and they are in.
Fingon Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Lets look at the facts. His full body of work is the 16 game season not 2, 3 or 4 games. 4,000+ yards, 25 TDs and a higher QB rating than Edwards. Everything else is just noise. Facts point to case that he is an improvement over Edwards. Jay Cutler had: a great offensive line, great WR, very good #2, a very good pass catching TE, AND a great running game. When was the last time Trent had that? Cutler was merely average last year, even though he had great talent on the offensive side of the ball. Your stats are a result of throwing the ball 40 times a game. Cutler has a very similar QB rating and YPA to Edwards, all while having far superior talent around him.
PushthePile Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Right there you show your ignorance. Jay Cutler had: a great offensive line, great WR, very good #2, a very good pass catching TE, AND a great running game. When was the last time Trent had that? Cutler was merely average last year, even though he had great talent on the offensive side of the ball. Ignorance is labeling the Broncos running game "great" last year. I have to question your ability to put up a valued argument seeing how little you know about Denver. Cutler had a nice season last year, I'm not sure what you were looking for. Career stats: Cutler (37 games) - Tds 54 Int 37 Yards 9024 Rating 87.1 Edwards (24 games) - Tds 18 Int 18 Yards 4329 Rating 79.1 We can only hope Edwards works his way up to your average.
extrahammer Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Why is anyone even talking about this? The Bills aren't going to go after Cutler unless there were no signs of life at our QB spot. Do you really think they would make a play after the Bills PR has put Edwards on nearly every radio and tv show gaa gaa'ing over T.O. ?? This thread is dumb.
Fingon Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Ignorance is labeling the Broncos running game "great" last year. I have to question your ability to put up a valued argument seeing how little you know about Denver. Cutler had a nice season last year, I'm not sure what you were looking for. Career stats: Cutler (37 games) - Tds 54 Int 37 Yards 9024 Rating 87.1 Edwards (24 games) - Tds 18 Int 18 Yards 4329 Rating 79.1 We can only hope Edwards works his way up to your average. 12th in total yards and 2nd in YPC. Pretty bad running game, eh? Cutler: sacked 11 times last year on 600+ passes Edwards: sacked 23 times last year on 375 passes Cutler had a far superior offensive line, WR corps, TE, and coach. Cutler is a product of talent around him, and throwing the ball 600+ times.
PushthePile Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Hey Genius Where in this thread did I compare him with Edwards? Before you make any asinine assumptions, you should first read before you type anything. Secondly, if you want to keep making excuses for this Cutler, then that is your prerogative. Bottom line, is like I mentioned before, He hasn't produced when they needed him. that is a fact. That he has played well below his average performance when they needed him. that is a fact. Keep making excuses for him. I know Mcdaniels isn't I don't need to make excuses for Cutler at all. He his ahead of the power curve for a third year Qb. God knows what you are looking for out of him.
PushthePile Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 12th in total yards and 2nd in YPC. Pretty bad running game, eh? Cutler: sacked 11 times last year on 600+ passes Edwards: sacked 23 times last year on 375 passes Cutler had a far superior offensive line, WR corps, TE, and coach. Cutler is a product of talent around him, and throwing the ball 600+ times. Something you won't find in your stat sheets is that Cutler is also far more agile than Edwards and (GET READY) has more poise. The running game gave the Broncos fits last year. They had countless injuries and weren't very consistent, especially in short yardage. Watch the games!
Fingon Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Something you won't find in your stat sheets is that Cutler is also far more agile than Edwards and (GET READY) has more poise. The running game gave the Broncos fits last year. They had countless injuries and weren't very consistent, especially in short yardage. Watch the games! Yeah, Cutler isn't that agile, as he's pretty average in that department. Cutler had a great offensive line last year, and every single stat shows it. The Broncos were 12th in yards and 2nd in YPC (not to mention giving up 11 sacks)... pretty bad running game right? How do you say Cutler is a better QB than Edwards, when TE has never had anything close to the talent that denver's offense has? Especially since their efficiency rating are so close? Do you deny that Cutler has far superior talent around him?
PushthePile Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Yeah, Cutler isn't that agile, as he's pretty average in that department. Cutler had a great offensive line last year, and every single stat shows it. The Broncos were 12th in yards and 2nd in YPC (not to mention giving up 11 sacks)... pretty bad running game right? How do you say Cutler is a better QB than Edwards, when TE has never had anything close to the talent that denver's offense has? Especially since their efficiency rating are so close? Do you deny that Cutler has far superior talent around him? I have said why I think Cutler is beter. I got nothing else to add.
Alphadawg7 Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 What your failing to understand Alpha, is his ability to play in the clutch. He screwed up multiple times against the Bills. In critical junctures of the game, he makes big mistakes. Not just in the Bills game. J. Cutler 33/49 316 1 2 was his stat line against the chargers Good gunslinging numbers right? Note the 2 int's It was over when ... Chargers DE Luis Castillo intercepted a Jay Cutler pass inside the Broncos' 20-yard line, setting up LaDainian Tomlinson's third touchdown of the game -- a 14-yard run -- on the following play. there is no doubt that he has talent, but he is a crybaby, has a losing record, and makes big mistakes when the game is on the line. So far he has only 2 full seasons behind him, and he has shown promise, but he doesn't play well when they need him. Think about it. You can make all the excuses in the world you want to about him. But all they had to do was beat Buffalo at home. You can make the argument of not putting too much stock into it, but it is an important factor. The factor that you don't want to ignore. But the facts of the matter are that when they needed him most, he failed. 3 games. All they had to do was win one. 3 games Alpha. 0 victories. But forget about the victories, here are the facts 3 games. One victory and they are in. So let's see how he did. He had a 74.3 qb rating against Carolina and they put up only 10 points. 1 Td 1 int He had a 72.4 qb rating against the Bills at home and had 0 tds and 1 int. he had a 74.9 qb rating against SD and had 1 td and 2 int's. 2 td's and 4 int's in their final 3 games. hmm No wonder Mcdaniels has second thoughts about him. These are facts. So let's not go just with the he had no defense argument. Bottom line is he was a very mediocre qb when they needed him most. 0 clutch ability. 0 wins in three opportunites. 1 win and they are in. Fair enough Magox, but Edwards had a 4 game stretch where wins were a must for our playoffs hopes where he had 2 TD's and 8 INT's and a couple of lost fumbles...and those 4 games were pivotal to us not making the playoffs...so the point is, how can Cutler be held so accountable for these struggles and Trent not? And, what about the rest of the season? I know people will say, well Trent is young...well people forget that Cutler is still young and developing too. He got better every year, and in the key pivotal year of development for a QB, he threw for over 4500 yards and made the Pro Bowl. Payton Manning was not good for years in the post season before he finally was able to put it together. Those were the first big games of Cutlers career, so if you are going to give Trent a pass for even worse play than Cutler becuase Trent is young, you gotta do the same for Cutler. All, and I mean all the greats have had times of struggle in games and even stretches in a season. QB play was a much bigger factor for us not making the playoffs than it was for Denver. Thats all I am saying...
Fingon Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 I have said why I think Cutler is beter. I got nothing else to add. Right, so you recognize that Cutler has far superior talent around him? Glad we could come to an agreement.
PushthePile Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Right, so you recognize that Cutler has far superior talent around him? Glad we could come to an agreement. Yes with a little better talent around him, he has yielded far better results.
Fingon Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Yes with a little better talent around him, he has yielded far better results. to name a few: Brandon Marshall Eddie Royal Tony Scheffler Ryan Clady Daniel Graham Mike Shanahan All are much better than anything the Bills had last year.
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Right, so you recognize that Cutler has far superior talent around him? Glad we could come to an agreement. Dude, it is pretty obvious that Cutler had more talent around him in Denver than Edwards has had to work with here in what amounts to be about a full season of work. Most, if not everyone, on this site would agree to that, so it doesn't need to be repeated in every post you make. You can't base an argument comparing NFL quarterbacks on simply that though, it doesn't work that way. I'm kind of on the fence about whether I think all of this SPECULATION regarding a switch of quarterbacks is a great idea, but judging an NFL quarterback comes down to much more than the guys who are around him. And why do you mention his 600+ attempts last year as if this is a negative? Just because they "padded" his stats in your eyes? Do you realize how difficult it is to ask a quarterback in this league to throw the ball almost 40 times a game when NFL defenses basically know it's coming? Let alone staying healthy in the process. And to still have the success he had last year in just his second full season? That doesn't really hold water either. Like I said, I am a bit on the fence with this issue, but you're going to have to do a MUCH better job if you're going to keep trying to talk people out of Jay Cutler as an NFL quarterback. All this is doing is making you sound like Mel Kiper's number one disciple.
PushthePile Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 to name a few: Brandon Marshall Eddie Royal Tony Scheffler Ryan Clady Daniel Graham Mike Shanahan All are much better than anything the Bills had last year. Most importantly they have a much better Qb who gets the ball downfield. Those weapons wouldn't be as productive without Cutler.
jwws9999 Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Dude, it is pretty obvious that Cutler had more talent around him in Denver than Edwards has had to work with here in what amounts to be about a full season of work. Most, if not everyone, on this site would agree to that, so it doesn't need to be repeated in every post you make. You can't base an argument comparing NFL quarterbacks on simply that though, it doesn't work that way. I'm kind of on the fence about whether I think all of this SPECULATION regarding a switch of quarterbacks is a great idea, but judging an NFL quarterback comes down to much more than the guys who are around him. And why do you mention his 600+ attempts last year as if this is a negative? Just because they "padded" his stats in your eyes? Do you realize how difficult it is to ask a quarterback in this league to throw the ball almost 40 times a game when NFL defenses basically know it's coming? And to still have the success he had last year in just his second full season? That doesn't really hold water either. Like I said, I am a bit on the fence with this issue, but you're going to have to do a MUCH better job if you're going to keep trying to talk people out of Jay Cutler as an NFL quarterback. All this is doing is making you sound like Mel Kiper's number one disciple. the biggest difference between Edwards and Cutler is that Cutler doesn't suck
Magox Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Fair enough Magox, but Edwards had a 4 game stretch where wins were a must for our playoffs hopes where he had 2 TD's and 8 INT's and a couple of lost fumbles...and those 4 games were pivotal to us not making the playoffs...so the point is, how can Cutler be held so accountable for these struggles and Trent not? And, what about the rest of the season? I know people will say, well Trent is young...well people forget that Cutler is still young and developing too. He got better every year, and in the key pivotal year of development for a QB, he threw for over 4500 yards and made the Pro Bowl. Payton Manning was not good for years in the post season before he finally was able to put it together. Those were the first big games of Cutlers career, so if you are going to give Trent a pass for even worse play than Cutler becuase Trent is young, you gotta do the same for Cutler. All, and I mean all the greats have had times of struggle in games and even stretches in a season. QB play was a much bigger factor for us not making the playoffs than it was for Denver. Thats all I am saying... So far up to now, there is little doubt that Cutler has accomplished more, and no doubt he has the stronger arm. That is not what I am debating. You have to understand a few things though. He has had more talent around him than Edwards has. He has been in a much much more pass happy system than Edwards has been, so no doubt that, that has inflated his #'s up to now, plus he has had 1 more full season, then Edwards has had. I think when when you combine qb's who play in their first full season (Edwards), and team's that are below average both on defense and offense (Bills). I think it is fair to say that the qb will have less than stellar #'s. Edwards, on this team, has had good #'s in my view, when you look at the team that we are and the offensive talent that we have had, and the geniuses at the helm that are guiding him. Cutler has got talent, no doubt about it. But has shown that he is immature, not just in the latest episode but in other instances as well. And let's not forget that it is Cutler's responsability to adhere to McDaniels, not the other way around. He has shown that when the game is on the line, in critical instances, he hasn't produced. Some may say that is not fair to bring up, but I say it is not only fair, but it is wreckless not to consider this. I can't say enough how much I am unimpressed with Cutler, in those final three games when they needed him. I'm not impressed with Cutler. sure he has the gunslinging passing yards and td's. But he makes bonehead mistakes when it matters. that's just my view
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