ax4782 Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Ooooooor it could be that he single-handedly flushed the Bills' season last year with stellar performances against the Fish, Jets, Patriots and Browns with a STELLAR 3TD to 8INT ratio. Beautiful. Talk about CLUTCH! Did you actually read the above post where I discussed that point thoroughly or are you just repeating the same tripe everyone else advocating for this trade is spewing? Those were weeks 8-11, and Edwards wasn't the reason we lost that Browns game. But I guess since we're blaming everything else on him, why not the Cleveland game too? After those games the Bills were still over .500. That series of games didn't blow the season. Cutler, however, posted similarly horrible statistics over his worst three game stretch. The only problem was, that was the final three games of the season, one of which was against us, when they only needed to win one game to make the playoffs, and he blew them all. What was that about single-handedly flushing seasons down toilets? Perhaps that was the sound of your unsubstantiated post going back from whence it came.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Would Cutler have done any better with this team? Teams would have just doubled Evans and stacked the box. We only had 1 receiver last year (Bronco's had eddie royal and brandon marshall), and no receiving TE. He would have no one to throw to. Not to mention Denver's O-line is far superior to ours. I think he would have VASTLY outperformed Trent Edwards last year. Do you remember any of the above games? The Fish game especially was egregious.
Fingon Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 I think he would have VASTLY outperformed Trent Edwards last year. Do you remember any of the above games? The Fish game especially was egregious. Cutler only managed an 86 QB rating and a 7.3 YPA, and he has ridiculous talent around him. To say that he would do better than that here...would be dumb. So you are looking at a drop off when he loses his #2 WR, his TE, and a very good O-Line. I don't think a QB rating in the 70's would be an improvement over Edwards.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Those were weeks 8-11, and Edwards wasn't the reason we lost that Browns game. But I guess since we're blaming everything else on him, why not the Cleveland game too? After those games the Bills were still over .500. Dude. Really. REALLY? He threw TWO touchdowns in THREE weeks. Listen, I don't give a damn WHO you are, when you throw TWO TDs in THREE weeks against divisional opponents, you just aren't getting it done. Sorry. I'm not pro-Cutler. I'm anti-noodle-armed Californians.
McBeane Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Fingon, do you ever leave these forums? You have been on all day in this thread saying the same thing in nearly every post you have made. It's simply getting redundant, we know you think Cutler is average and Edwards is God, give it up.
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 No offense Alpha, because other than your view on Edwards, you have some intelligible views on football. but the most ridiculous part of his argument is when he said that they win in spite of him. THen the three games he mentioned, are 3 games that they won because of Trent. THree come from behind victories. 2 of them in real clutch situations. Sure he struggled in parts of those games, but the bottom line is, when they needed him most, he pulled through. And yes he did struggle during certain stretches of the season, but that is to be expected out of any first year qb. If you go back to Cutler's first full year, he had 3 games where he had less than a 50 qb rating. So, it is normal for 1st year qb's to struggle. But all in all, Trent showed that he can win games for us in the clutch. Cutler hasn't shown that ability on a consistant basis, andd when they needed Cutler the most, he didn't deliver. That's the bottom line. Hence, the qb controversy in Denver Magox (and others), no offense, but why do you down play the 4 game stretch that practically ended our playoff hopes that were our first 3 divisional games followed by the Cle debacle? Trents passer rating was atrocious and he had 3 TD's and 10, yes 10 turnovers... These were must win games for us too...it put us so far out of the post season that it pretty much ended our season. We were in each game and lost because our QB couldnt get it done...and he had more bad games later in the year too, not just these, but these put us so far behind that our season was pretty much over. You keep saying I dont like Edwards, but that is not true. I am just a realist as to what he is thus far...I agree he has potential, but how over stated his performance is has become comical. If Edwards is here, then I hope he lives up to the potential this year, but last year was terrible...the problem you are hung up on is the 4th quarter rating...well look at his fourth quarter stats...they are not that special: Trents 4th qtr stats: QB rating 106.3, 800+ yards and only 6 TD's and 2 INT's. FYI: Cutler is a pretty good 4th quarter QB too...94.2 rating, 11 TD's to only 4 INT's and 1200+ yards...That is eleven TD's and ONLY 4 INT's...pretty good 4th qtr player too... FYI #2: Edwards amongst the worst in the NFL (and may be the worst) rated QB in the first qtr with a rating of 58.3 with 1 TD and 5 INT's...so he gets us off to a slow start meaning we have to play from behind. In fact, he has a 1st half rating of 75.3...so, lets look at how he does when playing from BEHIND in a game...I mean he is a comeback legend right... His rating is 78.3 when playing from behind...doesnt exactly screem clutch QB... His rating is 116 when playing with a lead...looks like a "front runner" Too bad, he stinks in the first qtr and first half which always puts us behind because he is NOT good playing from behind because he is such a slow starter... Oh, and if he is such a good 4th quarter QB, what happened in the Miami game where he had a 35 QB rating in the 4th quarter with INT, fumble, no td's and bad completion %? He is not nearly the legend you guys make him out to be...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Did you actually read the above post where I discussed that point thoroughly or are you just repeating the same tripe everyone else advocating for this trade is spewing? Those were weeks 8-11, and Edwards wasn't the reason we lost that Browns game. But I guess since we're blaming everything else on him, why not the Cleveland game too? After those games the Bills were still over .500. That series of games didn't blow the season. Cutler, however, posted similarly horrible statistics over his worst three game stretch. The only problem was, that was the final three games of the season, one of which was against us, when they only needed to win one game to make the playoffs, and he blew them all. What was that about single-handedly flushing seasons down toilets? Perhaps that was the sound of your unsubstantiated post going back from whence it came. You are out of your mind...
Fingon Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Fingon, do you ever leave these forums? You have been on all day in this thread saying the same thing in nearly every post you have made. It's simply getting redundant, we know you think Cutler is average and Edwards is God, give it up. When did i say Edwards was God? He's pretty average atm, then again... so is Cutler.
Magox Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Magox (and others), no offense, but why do you down play the 4 game stretch that practically ended our playoff hopes that were our first 3 divisional games followed by the Cle debacle? Trents passer rating was atrocious and he had 3 TD's and 10, yes 10 turnovers... These were must win games for us too...it put us so far out of the post season that it pretty much ended our season. We were in each game and lost because our QB couldnt get it done...and he had more bad games later in the year too, not just these, but these put us so far behind that our season was pretty much over. You keep saying I dont like Edwards, but that is not true. I am just a realist as to what he is thus far...I agree he has potential, but how over stated his performance is has become comical. If Edwards is here, then I hope he lives up to the potential this year, but last year was terrible...the problem you are hung up on is the 4th quarter rating...well look at his fourth quarter stats...they are not that special: Trents 4th qtr stats: QB rating 106.3, 800+ yards and only 6 TD's and 2 INT's. FYI: Cutler is a pretty good 4th quarter QB too...94.2 rating, 11 TD's to only 4 INT's and 1200+ yards...That is eleven TD's and ONLY 4 INT's...pretty good 4th qtr player too... FYI #2: Edwards amongst the worst in the NFL (and may be the worst) rated QB in the first qtr with a rating of 58.3 with 1 TD and 5 INT's...so he gets us off to a slow start meaning we have to play from behind. In fact, he has a 1st half rating of 75.3...so, lets look at how he does when playing from BEHIND in a game...I mean he is a comeback legend right... His rating is 78.3 when playing from behind...doesnt exactly screem clutch QB... His rating is 116 when playing with a lead...looks like a "front runner" Too bad, he stinks in the first qtr and first half which always puts us behind because he is NOT good playing from behind because he is such a slow starter... Oh, and if he is such a good 4th quarter QB, what happened in the Miami game where he had a 35 QB rating in the 4th quarter with INT, fumble, no td's and bad completion %? He is not nearly the legend you guys make him out to be... There is no doubt that he struggled in games through out the season. But those weren't "must win" or "clutch" games. Sure every game in a whole is "must" win, but at that time, they weren't. Is that a fair statement? On the other hand, Cutler's game's were obvious must win games. Would you say that is a fair statement? Going back to the game's that Trent struggled in, there is no excuse, he had bad performances, and yes he did start off games slowly, but to credit Trent, in many of those games, he more than made up for it when the game counted. correct? He did not peform like an all star, no one is saying that. But he showed he can play well in the clutch when he needed to. Is that a fair comment? Would you say that it is uncommon for first year qb's to struggle in their first full season? I mean Cutler had 3 games of below 50 qb rating in his first full season. Not to mention, that they both had basically the same qb rating last year. Plus, would you deny, that the Chiefs, Raiders and Chargers are easier opponents than the Patriots, Dolphins and Jets? Don't you believe that has any baring in their performances?
McBeane Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 When did i say Edwards was God? He's pretty average atm, then again... so is Cutler. A pretty clear-cut stat is Pro Bowls. Cutler = 1 Edwards = 0 Last time I checked, "average" quarterbacks don't make Pro Bowls.
ax4782 Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Dude. Really. REALLY? He threw TWO touchdowns in THREE weeks. Listen, I don't give a damn WHO you are, when you throw TWO TDs in THREE weeks against divisional opponents, you just aren't getting it done. Sorry. I'm not pro-Cutler. I'm anti-noodle-armed Californians. So when Cutler threw two touchdowns in the final three weeks of the season did that prove that he was a noodle-armed californian? I guess it did by the logic you are using. That's right. Read the post above and look at the stats. If people actually based their statements on facts rather than cow excrement we'd all be better off on this board. And right now, this Cutler trade tripe is smelling like a big steaming pile.
ax4782 Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 A pretty clear-cut stat is Pro Bowls. Cutler = 1 Edwards = 0 Last time I checked, "average" quarterbacks don't make Pro Bowls. Right, because making the pro bowl is the best indicator of whether or not you do or do not suck. There've been a lot of QBs who've made the pro bowl because they had one good season that weren't top notch QBs. And um, look at the actual statistics that matter. Like the ones discussed above. If you had, this conversation would have stopped a long time ago. Cutler and Edwards are pretty even all around after last year, even though Cutler digressed from his first year stats and Edwards improved vastly all across the board. But hey, who am I to say which QB appears to have a bigger upside.
lets_go_bills Posted March 17, 2009 Author Posted March 17, 2009 I don't want that malcontent baby here. And what the hell would I do with my Trent Edwards jersey?
ax4782 Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 You are out of your mind... No, you are just ignoring the fact that all of the information you are spewing to convince people that Cutler is so much better is just plain wrong. The statistics don't lie. Look at the links and the facts and I think you'll see that your position is misguided. At best. Cutler is not that much better than Edwards, and based on the stats Edwards appears to be the QB on the upswing, not Cutler. As for these three game stretches, why aren't you talking about the one Cutler had when their playoff lives were on the line over the last three weeks of the season when his numbers were just as bad as Edwards' over his worst three game stretch. I know reality sucks, but really, you can't go on pretending it doesn't exist. It's not my fault the facts don't like your argument. Try convincing them their wrong.
Lori Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 A pretty clear-cut stat is Pro Bowls. Cutler = 1 Edwards = 0 Last time I checked, "average" quarterbacks don't make Pro Bowls. Vince Young took off his headset and set down his clipboard to say hi.
Erik Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Vince Young took off his headset and set down his clipboard to say hi. Great point and even better illustration
extrahammer Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 For all Jay Cutler wannabee's: Please call into Bills Fan Radio and voice why you think the Bills should go after Cutler. (347)-945-5189. Show starts at 9pm ET. Or e-mail us your thoughts at host@billsfanradio.com.
McBeane Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Right, because making the pro bowl is the best indicator of whether or not you do or do not suck. There've been a lot of QBs who've made the pro bowl because they had one good season that weren't top notch QBs. And um, look at the actual statistics that matter. Like the ones discussed above. If you had, this conversation would have stopped a long time ago. Cutler and Edwards are pretty even all around after last year, even though Cutler digressed from his first year stats and Edwards improved vastly all across the board. But hey, who am I to say which QB appears to have a bigger upside. I have read every single post in this thread and I understand both sides of the argument. I am more pro-Cutler now because of the signing of T.O. and how it will open up Lee Evans down field. I don't believe that Edwards has the arm necessary to make the throws that need to be made if we are going to make the playoffs. I love Edwards, I think he is a great guy and a very smart quarterback. But to me, Cutler will be able to make those throws and is what we need to have an elite offense in the NFL.
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 There is no doubt that he struggled in games through out the season. But those weren't "must win" or "clutch" games. Sure every game in a whole is "must" win, but at that time, they weren't. Is that a fair statement? On the other hand, Cutler's game's were obvious must win games. Would you say that is a fair statement? Going back to the game's that Trent struggled in, there is no excuse, he had bad performances, and yes he did start off games slowly, but to credit Trent, in many of those games, he more than made up for it when the game counted. correct? He did not peform like an all star, no one is saying that. But he showed he can play well in the clutch when he needed to. Is that a fair comment? Would you say that it is uncommon for first year qb's to struggle in their first full season? I mean Cutler had 3 games of below 50 qb rating in his first full season. Not to mention, that they both had basically the same qb rating last year. Plus, would you deny, that the Chiefs, Raiders and Chargers are easier opponents than the Patriots, Dolphins and Jets? Don't you believe that has any baring in their performances? Our division is better, but Denver actually won a game in our division and we went 0-6... So far, the only argument anyone has had in support of Trent was his 4th quarter rating. His first half rating is terrible... So lets compare one last time the "clutch" stats one more time since you and others have mentioned his 4th qtr rating so much. 4th Qtr Stats Edwards: 106 rating, 6TD's, 2INT's, 800+yards Cutler: 94 rating, 11 TD's, 4 INT's... That dispells the Cutler is a bone head in the 4th when he only has 4 turnovers in 16 games...they are both clearly effective in the 4th...and Cutler is clearly productive with eleven TD's... Playing when the game is tied (cant afford mistakes): Edwards: 70.1 rating, 0 TD's, 2 INT's Cutler: 110.4, 7 TD's, 1 INT Playing from behind: 1-8 points (winnable games) Edwards: 79.6 rating, 2 TD's, 2 INT's Cutler: 90.3 rating, 5 TD's, 2 INT's Playing from behind: 9-16 points (again, winnable games) Edwards: 75.3 rating, 4 TD's, 5 INT's Cutler: 68.0 rating, 5 TD's, 7 INT's In close games (tied to within 8 points) Cutler has been far better than Edwards. Edwards edges him out when the game is further out of reach when behind 9-16 points, but Edwards isnt very good then either. Neither did well in that scenario... And first half ratings: Edwards: 75.3, 3 TD's, 6 INT's Cutler: 87.4, 13 TD's, 9 INT's... So, lets review. Cutler is pretty good in the first half (had more TD's in the first half of games than Trent had total), really good in close games where he is tied or behind, and really good in the 4th quarter. Trent is terrible in the first half (ONLY 3 TD's ALL year in the first half, pathetic), terrible in close games where we are tied or behind, and is pretty good in the 4th quarter. Give me the guy who is good from start to finish that excels in those close games who is money in the 4th...that is Cutler, and Edwards istn even close... Oh and by the way, you brought up competition...Edwards seems to only have his decent games against the lowest rated D's in the league...which is why we went 0-6 in our division...
Magox Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Our division is better, but Denver actually won a game in our division and we went 0-6... So far, the only argument anyone has had in support of Trent was his 4th quarter rating. His first half rating is terrible... So lets compare one last time the "clutch" stats one more time since you and others have mentioned his 4th qtr rating so much. 4th Qtr Stats Edwards: 106 rating, 6TD's, 2INT's, 800+yards Cutler: 94 rating, 11 TD's, 4 INT's... That dispells the Cutler is a bone head in the 4th when he only has 4 turnovers in 16 games...they are both clearly effective in the 4th...and Cutler is clearly productive with eleven TD's... Playing when the game is tied (cant afford mistakes): Edwards: 70.1 rating, 0 TD's, 2 INT's Cutler: 110.4, 7 TD's, 1 INT Playing from behind: 1-8 points (winnable games) Edwards: 79.6 rating, 2 TD's, 2 INT's Cutler: 90.3 rating, 5 TD's, 2 INT's Playing from behind: 9-16 points (again, winnable games) Edwards: 75.3 rating, 4 TD's, 5 INT's Cutler: 68.0 rating, 5 TD's, 7 INT's In close games (tied to within 8 points) Cutler has been far better than Edwards. Edwards edges him out when the game is further out of reach when behind 9-16 points, but Edwards isnt very good then either. Neither did well in that scenario... And first half ratings: Edwards: 75.3, 3 TD's, 6 INT's Cutler: 87.4, 13 TD's, 9 INT's... So, lets review. Cutler is pretty good in the first half (had more TD's in the first half of games than Trent had total), really good in close games where he is tied or behind, and really good in the 4th quarter. Trent is terrible in the first half (ONLY 3 TD's ALL year in the first half, pathetic), terrible in close games where we are tied or behind, and is pretty good in the 4th quarter. Give me the guy who is good from start to finish that excels in those close games who is money in the 4th...that is Cutler, and Edwards istn even close... Oh and by the way, you brought up competition...Edwards seems to only have his decent games against the lowest rated D's in the league...which is why we went 0-6 in our division... So there are strong arguments for both qb's. I will not dispute that Cutler has been the better qb at this point. Because he has. But not by much. But I can say with full confidence that Trent has been the better player when the game is on the line. Evidence in the Chargers, Bills game. Considering Trent has one full season under his belts, and he had less talent surrounding him offensively and a tougher division to play in. He's done pretty well. ANd I'm looking forward to his second full season, with lots more weapons. I will go out on a limb to say, that I believe that he Trent will have a better qb rating than Cutler does in 2009. I won't say that the Bills will have a better record, because we play in a much more difficult conference than the AFC West.
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