atlbillsfan1975 Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 He was not a great Left Tackle last year. Everyones says it was because Dockery. Ok i will buy some of that. But now he want sto be paid one of the biggest contracts in Bills history. You are going to tell me he is worth that? And for you guys who dont know anything about Bell i will remind you he is the same type of player Peters was, a project. And from what people in the orinization are saying he is doing really good. I will take them over any of us who probably havent seen anything. The FO wasn't wrong about Peters talent, and if they feal Bell is able to step up then i will trust them again. 11.5 million is too much for the Bills to spend on any one player. I hope they dont do it. Oh and by the way last year the Falcons jumped up back into late in the first and grabbed Sam Baker as their starting left tackle. And i think they had a pretty damn good year on offense. Baker got hurt near end of season, like Peters. But he played very good while he started.So you guys who say you cant get a probowl left tackle late in the first have 'no clue'. And Indys starting left tackle Tony Ugoh was taken in the second. And i think they have one of the best passing attacks in the game and fewest sacks.
26TrapDraw Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 His problems concerning his character and attitude when he was in college were well known. That's one of the reasons he went undrafted,even though his raw talent was no secret. I guess you could say that's just hearsay or that people change,but to me his actions seem to show a pattern of behavior that directly affect the team. I'm in agreement here. This guy is showing an ugly pattern of dissatisfaction. Granted he does deserve a "better" contract that he has now, that is not in question BUT Everybody getting pissed off about it is silly. The Bills FO holds ALL the cards here, they can put their best offer on the table and if Payme doesn't like it yes he will hold out. All that will do is show the rest of the league what a malcontent he is and make it extremely difficult to deal with other teams not to mention sitting on the shelf for another "prime" year of his career. IMHO Peters would do well to let buffalo make a fair contract extension offer and go with it.
Ray Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Is he really going to quibble over 9-11M a year....guarantee him some of the money or construct it where he gets 35M guaranteed and but backload it 7 yrs 80M but really he won't see the back end three years or so. It all depends how it is structured but he certainly did not play anywhere near his 4M per year last year. If Phila offers you their first two picks this year in the 1st round I would take it. Buffalo having 3 1st round picks could really get some players.
VABills Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Is he really going to quibble over 9-11M a year....guarantee him some of the money or construct it where he gets 35M guaranteed and but backload it 7 yrs 80M but really he won't see the back end three years or so. It all depends how it is structured but he certainly did not play anywhere near his 4M per year last year. If Phila offers you their first two picks this year in the 1st round I would take it. Buffalo having 3 1st round picks could really get some players. He is asking for 13.5 but in the Suly chat, Suly said it would probably take at least 12 million to sign him.
GaryPinC Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Personnally, I don't think you can get rid of Peters. They've already flushed Dockery, if Peters goes too it would be too much shakeup on a marginal offensive line. I don't think the FO/coaching staff can afford a bunch of losses to start the season, the fans would probably burn down OBD! They need Peters on board and happy. Whether or not he gets lazy with a new contract is certainly debateable but this franchise doesn't have time to debate. I don't fault Peters asking for the new contracts over his career. His ascension to LT has been rapid and unique, to this point the Bills have gotten a good bargain out of him. IMO they should have tried to sign him right after he reported to the team and started playing. Him and the FO had their pissing match, if they had put max effort into signing him then (plus with his poor play to start the season) I think he would have been more willing to negotiate down. Bills stated they weren't going to change is 2008 salary, they could have kept it the same and compensated him with the signing bonus. Everyone would have been happy and I think they'd have gotten him at a better price. Now he's pissed and will hold out for as much money as possible. If they knew they were getting rid of Dockery I would have gotten Peters signed before doing that. That's just extra leverage for Peters. If the FO doubts Peters' committment to the game, sign a back-loaded contract with him and start trying to find his replacement. I'll always remember the Kellen Winslow situation the Browns had. He got drafted and wanted a huge amount of money (more than the guy drafted before him). The Browns gave him the $ he wanted but it was all incentive driven and non-guaranteed. After he went bike riding and f'ed up his knee the Browns owed him next to nothing. They owed him so little they actually overpaid him as a show of good faith. Certainly the agents have gotten smarter but the players haven't. If he wants the $, give it to him with incentive-laden, minimal guaranteed contract and see what he does.
MRW Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Ruben's pro bowls were not a joke. He was one of the best guards in football. Sure they could have chosen one or two of his peers over him in 1 or 2 of the years, but he was still among the absolute best at his position. Once he was run out of town we all got to see the drop-off 1st hand. To think Peters made either pro-bowl on his personality, popularity, or whatever is truly laughable. He was HATED here by most casual fans, and then all you have left is the players and coaches vote, and they know how good he is. Thank you! Can we please drop this whole "The Pro Bowl is a joke because Ruben Brown got in so many times" "argument"? I would've thought that the last 5 years of crappy LG play would've clued people in that hey, maybe Brown was actually a good player, but apparently not. Instead let's go merrily on our way creating another hole on the team.
The Senator Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Nothing is more meaningless than the average fan's evaluation of NFL line play. Except maybe the Pro Bowl voting of the coaches and players... Link How did he get to the Pro Bowl last year? He didn't, actually - once again, for the 2nd consecutive year, he didn't finish the season due to injury and skipped the Pro Bowl. You don't think it was Buffalo Bills fans stuffing ballot boxes on his behalf last year do you? Gosh, no - that doesn't happen, does it? Link I'll take the fact that the coaches and players voted him to two Pro Bowls over any opinion on this board. That's too bad, and also incredibly naive - who gets 'invited' to the Pro Bowl is a joke. The fan voting takes place too early in the season, and it is mostly about names. Likewise with the players/coaches votes, largely based on names, prior reputations, and maybe some film from prior seasons that they've studied in practice.
cantankerous Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 His problems concerning his character and attitude when he was in college were well known. That's one of the reasons he went undrafted,even though his raw talent was no secret. I guess you could say that's just hearsay or that people change,but to me his actions seem to show a pattern of behavior that directly affect the team. Well known? If it was so well known how come i've never heard that before? He's grossly underpaid, you can't understand that? He wasn't drafted because of his bad attitude and character? Are you pulling this straight out of your ass or what?
dave mcbride Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Let's examine Mark Gaughan's article which I've excerpted: "It’s believed Peters wants to be the highest-paid left tackle in the NFL. Neither the Bills nor Peters’ agent, Eugene Parker, are commenting on negotiations. However, a source familiar with talks said Peters’ first offer was in excess of the $11.5 million-a-year deal signed by Miami’s Jake Long, who was the first pick in the draft last year. Long’s deal was for five years and $57.5 million." So first of all, no one has said he wants to be the highest paid. It is speculated. The fact that Peters' first offer to the Bills was in excess of the Jake Long deal? Well I don't know how you guys were taught to negotiate but conventionally one always go in high. So that's his starting point. In other words we don't know really what he wants because he is (honorably in my view) not negotiating through the media, a practice I'm sure that many here would criticize if he did. Rather than judge his character as almost everyone here is doing, why don't we watch how this plays out. I don't disagree with the general thrust here, but there's a bridge in Brooklyn I'd be happy to sell you if you don't think he's demanding to be the highest paid LT in the NFL.
VABills Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Well known? If it was so well known how come i've never heard that before? He's grossly underpaid, you can't understand that? He wasn't drafted because of his bad attitude and character? Are you pulling this straight out of your ass or what? SI Profile: BIO: Two-year starter and second-team all-conference selection as a junior after catching 21/218/4. Finished his sophomore season with 4/37/0 after spending the first half of his freshman campaign as a reserve defensive lineman. POSITIVES: Large, athletic tight end that stands out on the field. Blocks with leverage, strength and turns defenders from the play. Annihilates linebackers on the second level, gets movement from run blocks and effective when he stays with the action. Fluid releasing off the line into pass routes, runs well and displays soft hands. Gets vertical for the reception and makes the difficult catch in contorted positions. NEGATIVES: Not quick off the snap or explosive into blocks. Gets lazy and leans on opponents rather than blocking them. Lets the pass get into his frame. Not overly alert or a prospect that shows great wherewithal. ANALYSIS: A physical specimen with great natural gifts, Peters has the skills to be a dominant and complete tight end if not a very athletic left tackle. Will have trouble playing a position at 320 pounds and must shed weight but a prospect with a large upside. PROJECTION: Early Fourth Round THE HUDDLE REPORT: THE HUDDLE REPORT Jason Peters TE Arkansas Strengths Jason has very good size for his position and excellent speed. He has good hands and does well at the college level in the blocking game. Jason might be able to be used as an extra O-lineman in injury situations. He has excellent athletic talent for a kid his size, or any size for that matter. Needs to Improve Jason is overweight and immature. The scout’s politically correct word for this is “underachiever”. Bottom Line I bet some scout or coach is going to think that they can make this kid a left tackle because of his size and athletic talent. It’s just not going to happen. At this stage of his career, he doesn’t have the mental toughness to play that position or he just doesn’t want to. If he did, he would have played the LT position in college. Let’s face it, with this kid’s size and athletic talent, we should be talking about him as a first round pick, but we aren’t. Why? I’m mean really! He is big, tall, strong, can block, has good hands, is 320 lbs, and can run a 4.80 to a 4.90 in the forty. Someone please tell me why he would not be considered a first rounder! When you see this kid on the field and you watch somebody on the other team try to tackle him, it’s a joke. Is Jason still growing or is he just eating himself out of his potential? The big question is ‘When do you take this kid?’ There is a big difference between 3rd round money and 4th round money. Do you move to the dark side and take him in the third round - or earlier? This kid for me is normally a 4th rounder, but even I am tempted to be drawn to the dark side and take him in the third. He has tremendous potential and he is a good kid. Yes, he has a lot to learn, but does he have the work ethic to learn it? I say NO. NO to the third round and no to the dark side for me… it’s the 4th rd or nothing at all. I think!
PushthePile Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Well known? If it was so well known how come i've never heard that before? He's grossly underpaid, you can't understand that? He wasn't drafted because of his bad attitude and character? Are you pulling this straight out of your ass or what? It sounds like the Bills are trying to take care of him being grossly underpaid. I think tearing up two contracts prematurely to give a player more money is a good sign the team is willing to negotiate. If the reports are accurate 3 million to 8.5 million per season is a nice pay increase don't you think? Jason Peters is playing hardball and the Bills have to decide whether or not he's worth what he wants. You can't take fault with the Bills on this one, IMO.
Magox Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 This is obviously a very touchy subject here. There are strong arguments on both sides. Me personally, I'm sick of looking for a good LT. I remember how difficult it was to find a good player to man that position. I remember time in and time out, how disgusted I was with our blocking, and how desperate I felt in wanting to find that much coveted LT. Now he is here. We know he has the talent. Right in our laps. Can we really afford to lose that player again. Wouldn't it really suck if we traded him for a draft pick, our draft pick becomes a bust or mediocre and Peters goes on to have multiple ProBowl All Pro seasons? I remember how bad our line was. Now we have him. Of course there is the flip side. That we pay him and he becomes lethargic and never plays the way he did like in the 2006, 2007 seasons. I believe it is worth the risk to pay him. Odds are, and heavy odds at that, that we won't be able to find someone of his calibur. Then we will be right back where we were before. Desperate... looking for that LT
The Senator Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Is the answer just bend over and pay everyone? Did you pay any attention to how Peters played last year? He sucked. His pro bowl vote was joke, like Ruben Brown was. The Bills would be crazy to pay him that much. All the people who predicted Edwards would get creamed if Peters didn't play...and it was usually Peters who whiffed when Edwards got hammered. Trade the fat !@#$. PTR Exactly, Promo - and no matter what amount we offer, he'll piss and moan two years into the new deal and hold out again for more $$$$ while his level of play continues to decline. Like I said in December, we've seen Peters play his last game in a Bills uniform. Best thing we could do now is trade him for some players & a bunch of draft picks, and laugh as we watch Peters' game slide downhill with a different team.
Magox Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Exactly, Promo - and no matter what amount we offer, he'll piss and moan two years into the new deal and hold out again for more $$$$ while his level of play continues to decline. Like I said in December, we've seen Peters play his last game in a Bills uniform. Best thing we could do now is trade him for some players & a bunch of draft picks, and laugh as we watch Peters' game slide downhill with a different team. Ok, but it's fair to pay Kelsay $5 Million a year. It's fair to pay Schobel $9 Million a year. It's fair to pay..... be realistic He should be the highest paid lineman on the team. It's just about paying him the correct value. Is $4Million a year a fair contract for Peters?
davefan66 Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Trade him. He'll turn into another Bruce Smith, asking to restructure his contract every season. Thing is, Bruce deserved the money he got. I know 3 mill is a lot of money, but man, we picked him up when nobody wanted him and turned his career around. That should account for something?
The Senator Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Ok, but it's fair to pay Kelsay $5 Million a year. It's fair to pay Schobel $9 Million a year. It's fair to pay..... be realistic He should be the highest paid lineman on the team. It's just about paying him the correct value. Is $4Million a year a fair contract for Peters? I'm trying to be as realistic as possible. Whether he should be the highest paid lineman on the team is moot - he wants to be the highest paid lineman in the NFL. The problem with that is that he's not the best LT in the NFL, and last season his play declined. My hunch is that it will continue to decline, maybe even faster once he gets his big payday. I'm also very cynical about him holding out again and again, as younger and better players are signed to larger contracts. The best scenario for the Bills is a Jimmy Johnson move - a Herschel Walker-like trade. Package Peters with some players and/or draft picks and trade for some guys to plug the holes we have right now, plus a schitload of draft picks over the next few years. And they should do it right now, while some sucker GM might be as delusional as the Peters-lovers on TSW.
PushthePile Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Ok, but it's fair to pay Kelsay $5 Million a year. It's fair to pay Schobel $9 Million a year. It's fair to pay..... be realistic He should be the highest paid lineman on the team. It's just about paying him the correct value. Is $4Million a year a fair contract for Peters? Schobel has alot more success under his belt than Peters and at the time recieved a fair contract. The Bills have torn up two contracts in an attempt to pay Peters more. In return they have gotten a lengthy holdout, 11.5 sacks allowed, and demands to be the highest paid OL. He's a good player but doesn't want to be a Bill, IMO. It's a too big of a gamble on a guy with a questionable work ethic, coming off a subpar season.
Adam Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 I find it seriously disheartening to see any player asking for that much money considering people all over the county are losing their jobs and homes. He signed a contract,let him stick to it or trade him,let someone else pay him. Lots of good tackles in the first 11 picks, probably 6 will go in the first round. Rank Rating Name Yr Ht/Wt/40 College Home OT 1 Jason Smith SR 6-5/300/- Baylor Dallas, TX OT 2 Michael Oher SR 6-5/309/- Mississippi Memphis, TN OT 3 Eugene Monroe SR 6-6/315/- Virginia Plainfield, NJ OT 4 Andre Smith JR 6-4/348/- Alabama Birmingham, AL OT 5 William Beatty SR 6-6/291/- Connecticut York, PA Let go of Clements, draft McKelvin. Let go of MaGahee, draft Lynch. Let go of Bledsoe, draft Losman. No wonder this team perrenially stinks. I laugh at the people that can't comprehend why this doesn't work.....they just see new players come in and think to themselves...."Wow, shiny!!!" AS Levy said- "When you start listening to the fans, you end up sitting with them." That wasn't meant as a compliment.
PushthePile Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Let go of Clements, draft McKelvin. Let go of MaGahee, draft Lynch. Let go of Bledsoe, draft Losman. No wonder this team perrenially stinks. I laugh at the people that can't comprehend why this doesn't work.....they just see new players come in and think to themselves...."Wow, shiny!!!" AS Levy said- "When you start listening to the fans, you end up sitting with them." That wasn't meant as a compliment. Good point! I'd be watching Bills superbowl highlights if we still had Clements, McGahee, and Bledsoe. As Levy said- Go screw yourself Willis!
Magox Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Schobel has alot more success under his belt than Peters and at the time recieved a fair contract. The Bills have torn up two contracts in an attempt to pay Peters more. In return they have gotten a lengthy holdout, 11.5 sacks allowed, and demands to be the highest paid OL. He's a good player but doesn't want to be a Bill, IMO. It's a too big of a gamble on a guy with a questionable work ethic, coming off a subpar season. I understand the argument on the other side. I really do. I just can't stand the thought of losing an All Pro Talent, when he is right here in our laps. Don't we remember who our LT's before him were? Just because we may get a draft pick for him doesn't insure we get a good lineman. We've been through it many times before. It's worth the risk considering we know he has the ability. Let's not forget also, that in the three years he has played tackle, he played at a very high calibur in two of those years (2006, 2007). It was ONLY last year, the year he sat out the entire mini camp and training camps (which no one who is thinking rationally can deny that played a role in his subpar year) where he didn't play that well by his standards. So just speaking strictly facts here. 2 out of 3 years he played at top notch level the only 1 year he didn't was the holdout year. I think I would take my chances in signing him. He to me in my view, is worth the risk
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