San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 I suspect that the Bills real problem with Peters is that they think, "what happens after we pay him?" He's not a bright guy, and he shows all the signs of a guy whose willing to mail it in after he gets his reward. His late-season "injury" was par for the course. It seemed clear that the Bills really didn't think he was injured all that much prior to the NE game, but from Peters' perspective, playing was beside the point because a) he had been voted to the Pro Bowl (his key objective vis-a-vis boosting his salary potential) and b) the game didn't matter and he could really hurt himself. I don't doubt that he felt the same about playing in the Pro Bowl (which he refused to do). What you have to ask yourself is this: what happens to a guy like that after they get all that money? Over a player's career, has he shown the signs of loving the game for its own sake (dare I say it, but A-Rod is a good example of someone who does) and playing hard regardless of the money, or is he someone who is looking for the big paycheck? Peters is unbelievably talented, but if I had to pick, I'd put him in the latter category. I can't say for sure, of course - I don't know the guy - but he's shown signs that he really, really cares about getting paid. Once you get paid that much, a brutal game like football can make a guy feel less inclined to put it all on the line. Heck, he couldn't even put it all on the line to play against NE, a team the Bills really need to beat regardless if they've made the playoffs or not. Thank you for a well-thought and intelligent post (finally). I would say that Bruce Smith was perennially unhappy with his contract. I can recall at least twice where he publicly was upset that someone was making more than him two seasons after he'd signed his contract. Bruce never let it affect his play. I have no reason to question Peters' football desire. Peter's first contract was for an undrafted free agent. The Bills did the right thing and tore it up. After he signed the second contract he was moved to the more demanding and more financially rewarding position of left tackle. He's entering the 4th year of a 5 year $15 million contract. So far he's made less on that contract than Jake Long made last year. I like your post but I have to say that the Bills treatment of him has been poor and I understand totally his unhappiness. As for the Pro Bowls...why does football even have an all-star game? A baseball All-Star game is 1/163 of a season. A football All-Star game is more like 1/100 of a career or even more. I'm not risking it all/running up the odometer for an All-Star game. Kudos to those that do I suppose.
dave mcbride Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Some of you are still living in the 90's of NFL salaries. Dudes, Laveranues friggin Coles got 7 Mil per year !! A top 10 LT with top 3 talent surely deserves double figures per year. Please shut up about this and also stop thinking that landing a high draft pick would somehow justify trading this guy. (I know you won't ) See my post above. I really think that the money might not be the entire issue.
K-9 Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 I suspect that the Bills real problem with Peters is that they think, "what happens after we pay him?" He's not a bright guy, and he shows all the signs of a guy whose willing to mail it in after he gets his reward. His late-season "injury" was par for the course. It seemed clear that the Bills really didn't think he was injured all that much prior to the NE game, but from Peters' perspective, playing was beside the point because a) he had been voted to the Pro Bowl (his key objective vis-a-vis boosting his salary potential) and b) the game didn't matter and he could really hurt himself. I don't doubt that he felt the same about playing in the Pro Bowl (which he refused to do). What you have to ask yourself is this: what happens to a guy like that after they get all that money? Over a player's career, has he shown the signs of loving the game for its own sake (dare I say it, but A-Rod is a good example of someone who does) and playing hard regardless of the money, or is he someone who is looking for the big paycheck? Peters is unbelievably talented, but if I had to pick, I'd put him in the latter category. I can't say for sure, of course - I don't know the guy - but he's shown signs that he really, really cares about getting paid above all else. I don't begrudge him that -- once you get paid that much, a brutal game like football can make a guy feel less inclined to put it all on the line. Heck, he couldn't even put it all on the line to play against NE, a team the Bills really need to beat regardless if they've made the playoffs or not. But would I want to be the one paying him? That's where he loses me. Absolutely the best point to be made on the entire matter. You nailed it here, Dave. The dude has character issues. Football character issues. GO BILLS!!!
Coach Tuesday Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 If the concern is about his post-contractual effort, that is somewhat easy to address. Limit the guaranteed money and add incentives to the deal. But that does not appear to be what they're haggling over. Which, by the way, leads me to believe (like others here) that the deal will get done.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 If you traded your 1st and Peters to Philly for their two first round picks. Then i think it would be pretty much a wash. Philly has the 21 and 28 pick in the draft. Also you could maybe get a third out of them as well. You get your Tackle with pick number 21 your DE with pick number 28. In the second you get TE and then with two 3rds you get two more OL.There are plenty of good young tackles in the draft this year. Not to mention we have D Bell who sounds like he is developing into maybe the next Peters, play wise. Peters has shown he always wants to get paid more money. And thats fine so would we all. But what happens in two years from now when another left tackle gets 14 million a year. Are you gonna say he wont want another raise? You know he will. And the Bills will be right back here again.
dave mcbride Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Thank you for a well-thought and intelligent post (finally). I would say that Bruce Smith was perennially unhappy with his contract. I can recall at least twice where he publicly was upset that someone was making more than him two seasons after he'd signed his contract. Bruce never let it affect his play. I have no reason to question Peters' football desire. Peter's first contract was for an undrafted free agent. The Bills did the right thing and tore it up. After he signed the second contract he was moved to the more demanding and more financially rewarding position of left tackle. He's entering the 4th year of a 5 year $15 million contract. So far he's made less on that contract than Jake Long made last year. I like your post but I have to say that the Bills treatment of him has been poor and I understand totally his unhappiness. As for the Pro Bowls...why does football even have an all-star game? A baseball All-Star game is 1/163 of a season. A football All-Star game is more like 1/100 of a career or even more. I'm not risking it all/running up the odometer for an All-Star game. Kudos to those that do I suppose. I have no brief for the Pro Bowl. Most guys show up though, and seem to really love it. That tells you something. Honestly, I can't get a good read of Peters. It's pretty clear he's not a rocket scientist, but he doesn't have to be. I get the sense, though, that the Bills are concerned with paying him so much. One solution is to refuse to budge, let him hold out again, and get one more year out of him before trading him prior to next season. It'll be ugly, but he does have to play if he wants to get paid and wants to get closer to the end of his contract.
TheLynchTrain Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Listen....if they give Peters a 10 mil a year salary, in 2 or 3 years he'll be the 5th or 6th highest paid guy at the position. It goes up every year. Walter Jones is making 7.5 mil a year, a bargain for what the guy has done. And when he signed that contract, everyone thought it was absurd. I don't think he's going to B word about his salary again. Guys only do that once or twice. Give him a long term contract and be done with this. If we don't, other teams will. Its NFL Market Economics, and if we want to get away from being a backwater NFL town, we need to pay our players that perform. And I like how everyone is enthused about Bell, but come on? Has anybody seen the guy play a meaningful snap in a meaningful game? Yeah, its nice he gets kudos from Kyle Williams, but are we really basing our future on when one teammate drops a line about another? I've heard a few tidbits in the news here and there about how the bills are really impressed with the guy, but that doesnt mean they think hes going to be a bonifide star. Please stop this talk about Bell until we actually see the guy in a game...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Peters has shown he always wants to get paid more money. And thats fine so would we all. But what happens in two years from now when another left tackle gets 14 million a year. Are you gonna say he wont want another raise? You know he will. And the Bills will be right back here again. Okay. Let me spell this out one more time. Peters' first contract was for an undrafted free agent. He became our starter at right tackle. We then restructured him to a new contract. After he signed the new contract we then moved him to left tackle where he made the Pro Bowl. He then held out and wanted more money. He's entering the 4th year of a 5 year $15 million contract. He's made less money in the last three years than Jake Long made last year. I really can't see how people view him as a malcontent for wanting more money. He's totally outperformed his contracts twice now. And people want to question his football desire. He's totally justified in wanting to be paid more, especially in light of the Schobel situation. What am I missing here?
dave mcbride Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 If the concern is about his post-contractual effort, that is somewhat easy to address. Limit the guaranteed money and add incentives to the deal. But that does not appear to be what they're haggling over. Which, by the way, leads me to believe (like others here) that the deal will get done. I can't believe that Peters' agent is going to go for an incentive-laden deal. Parker is going to demand a guaranteed contract. I certainly would if I were the agent.
K-9 Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Thank you for a well-thought and intelligent post (finally). I would say that Bruce Smith was perennially unhappy with his contract. I can recall at least twice where he publicly was upset that someone was making more than him two seasons after he'd signed his contract. Bruce never let it affect his play. I have no reason to question Peters' football desire. Bruce never let it affect his play for two big reasons: he kept himself in great shape and was READY to play the minute he stepped on the field after his holdouts AND he was a film room junkie who studied his opponents and knew them inside out. He had football character. Peters, if last off season is any indication, didn't keep himself in shape, wasn't ready to play when he reported, and it showed. As for the mental aspects it's even more important for an OLmen to be there. From both a cohesion with the rest of the OL standpoint as well as knowing your opponents. He's only been playing the position a few years. One would think it's a no-brainer that if someone is truly dedicated to getting better at a new position he would pay the price to do so. Peters didn't. I question his desire from that standpoint alone. I agree the Bills are underpaying him. By a LOT in comparision with upper echelon OTs. I also think that Peters is underpaying the Bills A LOT by in comparison with those same upper echelon OTs. GO BILLS!!!
dave mcbride Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Okay. Let me spell this out one more time. Peters' first contract was for an undrafted free agent. He became our starter at right tackle. We then restructured him to a new contract. After he signed the new contract we then moved him to left tackle where he made the Pro Bowl. He then held out and wanted more money. He's entering the 4th year of a 5 year $15 million contract. He's made less money in the last three years than Jake Long made last year. I really can't see how people view him as a malcontent for wanting more money. He's totally outperformed his contracts twice now. And people want to question his football desire. He's totally justified in wanting to be paid more, especially in light of the Schobel situation. What am I missing here? There's a difference between being young and hungry and being a guy who wants to get the most money at his position ever. People get complacent. By any measure (including the most important one, the eyeball measure), he had a much poorer season last year than in 07. And he mailed it in at the end. It makes you wonder.
Gordio Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 If you traded your 1st and Peters to Philly for their two first round picks. Then i think it would be pretty much a wash. Philly has the 21 and 28 pick in the draft. Also you could maybe get a third out of them as well. You get your Tackle with pick number 21 your DE with pick number 28. In the second you get TE and then with two 3rds you get two more OL.There are plenty of good young tackles in the draft this year. Not to mention we have D Bell who sounds like he is developing into maybe the next Peters, play wise. Peters has shown he always wants to get paid more money. And thats fine so would we all. But what happens in two years from now when another left tackle gets 14 million a year. Are you gonna say he wont want another raise? You know he will. And the Bills will be right back here again. That is the worst trade idea I have ever heard of. Your going to be happy with dropping down 10 spaces in the draft, give up your 2 time probowl left tackle & all you get out of it is the basicaly the 28th pick in the draft. I am glad your not our GM. & the poster that said limit the guaranteed money really has no idea how NFL contracts work. I am sure Parker & Peters are well aware that the non guaranteed money on a NFL contract is not worth the paper it is written on. It is all about the guaranteed money. 6 yrs, 64 mill with a signing bonus of 15-18 mill & guaranteed money of 30 mill seems. Alot of money, sure. But that is the price of keeping your franchise tackle happy nowadays.
John G Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Then we would be over the cap Lets remember peters wasnt that good the pro bowl stuff way overrated,him and dockery were not that great.I dont want a player that cant show for camps,preseason,play nowhere what he did last year,we took a chance and made him what he is he was undrafted....and now look what he is doing to us...find a trade partner unload him and move on and find someone for the lt spot and lg spot....if Edwards is under pressure all the time,TO,Lee or anyone else receiving wont have to worry cause he wont have time to throw to them.Lets go Bills Brass get your heads out of your a...and lets do somthing here.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 There's a difference between being young and hungry and being a guy who wants to get the most money at his position ever. People get complacent. By any measure (including the most important one, the eyeball measure), he had a much poorer season last year than in 07. And he mailed it in at the end. It makes you wonder. Let's examine Mark Gaughan's article which I've excerpted: "It’s believed Peters wants to be the highest-paid left tackle in the NFL. Neither the Bills nor Peters’ agent, Eugene Parker, are commenting on negotiations. However, a source familiar with talks said Peters’ first offer was in excess of the $11.5 million-a-year deal signed by Miami’s Jake Long, who was the first pick in the draft last year. Long’s deal was for five years and $57.5 million." So first of all, no one has said he wants to be the highest paid. It is speculated. The fact that Peters' first offer to the Bills was in excess of the Jake Long deal? Well I don't know how you guys were taught to negotiate but conventionally one always go in high. So that's his starting point. In other words we don't know really what he wants because he is (honorably in my view) not negotiating through the media, a practice I'm sure that many here would criticize if he did. Rather than judge his character as almost everyone here is doing, why don't we watch how this plays out.
Paup 1995MVP Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 One thing is certain...Peters had a drop off from 07-08...I imagine that drop off was directly related to the Holdout...The Bills CANNOT go through another Hold Out from Peters in 09...This is some VERY dangerous territory because We are talking about the LT Position...But enough is enough...Peters Trade value is pretty much sky high...And it's not going to get any higher if He continues to underachieve in 09... I'm reluctantly in favor of Trading Peters...Chances are the Bills get a 1st and something for one of the Premier LT's in the NFL (at least if You ask Peters' Agent He is...)...Unfortunately, chances are also good The Bills see a drop off at the LT Position this coming Season...But at this point I don't see how they are going to bridge a $3 million per Year gap...Especially considering the fact that The Bills don't seem willing to pay ANY Player top cash at their Position...At least with a couple extra Picks in Rounds 1-3 The Bills will be able to fill a couple more holes...And IF the Bills get lucky and grab the right Kid, they could very well fill the LT Need in this Draft... My gut is telling Me Peters and The Bills are never going to see eye to eye again...If there is a Team willing to give up a couple Premium Draft Picks for Him I think it's time to cut all losses and move on...No more distractions at the LT Position please... I agree. I will keep saying this until the cows come home, as I have been saying since last year. The guy is just not that good. Why do so many of you on this board think he is GREAT? He is not great. Does it make everyone feel better about the Bills that we can say we have a top player at a position? Even though we all know it is not true. I say we trade him for Philly's higher first round pick and their second if possible. If they will not give up a two take their first and third and maybe a fifth. Because lets face it, noone is giving up two first round picks for Peters. That kind of trade is just not done anylonger in the NFL. He is a headache, not a gamechanger. It is time to say goodbye to Jason.
Trader Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 You have to understand that team and contracts mean nothing to him or his agent he is a P.O.S. Get rid of him. 11.5 sacks is pathetic. below average pay him a below average salary. He is lucky that McNally coached him up. or he would be fixing cars at a garage in Al.
Magox Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 That is the worst trade idea I have ever heard of. Your going to be happy with dropping down 10 spaces in the draft, give up your 2 time probowl left tackle & all you get out of it is the basicaly the 28th pick in the draft. I am glad your not our GM. & the poster that said limit the guaranteed money really has no idea how NFL contracts work. I am sure Parker & Peters are well aware that the non guaranteed money on a NFL contract is not worth the paper it is written on. It is all about the guaranteed money. 6 yrs, 64 mill with a signing bonus of 15-18 mill & guaranteed money of 30 mill seems. Alot of money, sure. But that is the price of keeping your franchise tackle happy nowadays. I was thinking the same thing. What an absurd trade. Some people have no clue
Solomon Grundy Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 This is interesting! If I were to trade Jason Peters there would be only two teams I would deal with, Detroit and St.Louis. Remember folks we have a two time Pro Bowler in his prime, that should equate to one of the top 2 picks in this years draft and a 3rd rounder. Who's to say that Jason Smith or Eugene Monroe will pan out to be the impact LT that Peters is. If this trade were to happen for the Bills I would first look to sign Orlando Pace as a stop gap LT for the season. With the Detroit or St. Louis pick I would take Aaron Curry in a heartbeat. With our pick at 11 I would still target Everette Brown or BJ Raji, which ever one is still there. Second round I'd probably still go with DL help, maybe Ayers. If he's not available then I may reach for Chase Coffman. Third round with our pick and the Detroit/St.Louis pick I would go Antoine Caldwell/Ron Brace. As far as the LT position goes I would hope that either Kirk Chambers or Demetrius Bell would learn how to man the position from Pace once is he gone.
el Tigre Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 It's too bad we didn't simply rework his contract last year or the year before: March 2007: Bills re-sign Chris Kelsay to ridiculous 4 year, $23 million contract. August 2007: Bills tear up last 3 years of Aaron Schobel's contract and give him 5 year $50 million contract to assure he's the highest paid D lineman on the Bills. Said Schobel "Obviously, I had three years left on my deal so they didn't have to do anything ..." March 2007: Bills sign Derrick Dockery to 7 year $49 million contract. Subsequently, Jason Peters continues to play under the 5 years $15 million contract he was given after being promoted to right offensive tackle over Mike Williams. January 2008: Peters is selected to the Pro Bowl. The Bills do nothing. January 2009: Peters selected to a second Pro Bowl. March 2009: Dockery is cut. Why the preferential treatment for Schobel and the stiffing of Peters? Every time I post this the thread dies out, except for VABillsfan who says it's racist. Is everyone going to continue to ignore this issue... I think even if Peters had been given a new contract at that time he would be demanding more by now anyway. He's a guy who has had desire and motivation issues dating back to his college days and it looks to me like he hasn't changed. His character is one reason that,even though he was a freakish athlete,he wasn't drafted. I think he'll always be a problem and an underacheiver and should be traded now while his stock is high.
K-9 Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Let's examine Mark Gaughan's article which I've excerpted: "It’s believed Peters wants to be the highest-paid left tackle in the NFL. Neither the Bills nor Peters’ agent, Eugene Parker, are commenting on negotiations. However, a source familiar with talks said Peters’ first offer was in excess of the $11.5 million-a-year deal signed by Miami’s Jake Long, who was the first pick in the draft last year. Long’s deal was for five years and $57.5 million." So first of all, no one has said he wants to be the highest paid. It is speculated. The fact that Peters' first offer to the Bills was in excess of the Jake Long deal? Well I don't know how you guys were taught to negotiate but conventionally one always go in high. So that's his starting point. In other words we don't know really what he wants because he is (honorably in my view) not negotiating through the media, a practice I'm sure that many here would criticize if he did. Rather than judge his character as almost everyone here is doing, why don't we watch how this plays out. Good point. It's just an opening salvo in a negotiation. Nothing more until we know more. Personally, I think a deal gets done at some point. As far as judging his character as a PLAYER (not as a person) I think he's raised a couple red flags in that regard. If I'm the Bills FO, I'm aware of that. You raised a comparison to Bruce Smith in an earlier post. I'm willing to give Peters the benefit of the doubt that, like Smith in his first two seasons, he's immature and doesn't know HOW to be a professional from a dedication to conditioning and studying the game stanpoint. He certainly has the physical tools. Does he have the heart? Time will tell. GO BILLS!!!
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