Interesting Day for Cutler

[BillsNYC]

Don't know if I'd want Cutler over Edwards, but I do know he looked pretty darn good against us last year.

 

Kiper is def just ticked he's been hyped.

 

Why do the Broncos want to trade him?

[ax4782]

Oh really? In Denver, in December, both Qb's had the chance to win that game. Our "noodle arm QB" stood in the pocket and took a real blow to deliver a beautiful long ball to Fred Jackson to re-take the lead in the 4th qtr, after our D had given up the lead. Then your boy Cutler had 2 drives/opportunities to win the game, at home. He failed. Give me Edwards and his upside.

 

Funny how people who want the Bills to just change things up all over the team every year forget those little facts. I think Trent showed in that game that he is as good if not better than Cutler. Cutler has an arm, no question, but armstrength isn't everything. And I would note that Edwards did not have a "bruised pinky on his non-throwing hand." He actually had pretty serious injuries last season and came back from them before predicted and played through some tough games.

[Dibs]

True. I'd love to have Cutler. Edwards will be good, but he needs to play in warm weather or a dome. Did you notice his record when it's cold as opposed to warm? Besides, QB's are supposed to be cocky.

No I didn't......but I have noticed many posters claim they have.....so I thought I'd go through the games & see for myself.

 

I imagine most QBs will perform better in good conditions rather than bad(obviously)......the question then becomes.....does TE perform at a more reduced level in cold weather compared to other QBs?

It looks like you(and others) focus on wins rather than QB performance......I'm less inclined to do that as there are many, many factors that come into determining win/loss.....not just QB ability.

That being said.....here are the cold(and/or windy) games TE has played.

 

As far as I can tell.....

There have been 4 games in his career with horrendous conditions or extreme cold.

2007 CLE(L): 30 degrees with 32+mph winds. Both QBs on the day fared pretty much the same.....played very poorly.

2007 NYG(L): 52 deg. with 23+mph winds.....against the SB winning team. Edwards outperformed Manning.

2008 DEN(W): 17 deg. TE had good day & outperformed Cutler.

2008 NE(L): 39 deg. 30-40mph winds. Edwards outperformed Cassel.

 

In terms of cold......what is the benchmark for a cold day?

For the sake of argument I am selecting 50degrees and under.....not including SF as he did not finish that game.....or the 4 games mentioned above.

2007 WASH(W): 40 deg. TE had good day & outperformed Campbell.

2007 MIA(W): 30 deg. Big day for TE(4TDs).....outperformed Lemon.

2007 PHI(L): 42 deg. Bad day for TE.....outperformed by McNabb

2008 NYJ(L): 49 deg. Decent day for TE(79QBR)....at least on par with Favre on the day.

2008 CLE(L): 30 deg. Very bad day for TE.

2008 KC(W): 50 deg. Very good day for TE(4TDs)

 

 

In looking at his results, I can't see the argument about the weather.

In the 4 horrendous condition days, he played as well or better than his opponent QBs......as he did in most of his 'cold' games. His win/loss in the cold is basically 50/50.....as were his performances.

 

Maybe someone can enlighten me as to where he is worse in the cold compared to most QBs because I certainly can't see it.

[300yrds]

No I didn't......but I have noticed many posters claim they have.....so I thought I'd go through the games & see for myself.

 

I imagine most QBs will perform better in good conditions rather than bad(obviously)......the question then becomes.....does TE perform at a more reduced level in cold weather compared to other QBs?

It looks like you(and others) focus on wins rather than QB performance......I'm less inclined to do that as there are many, many factors that come into determining win/loss.....not just QB ability.

That being said.....here are the cold(and/or windy) games TE has played.

 

As far as I can tell.....

There have been 4 games in his career with horrendous conditions or extreme cold.

2007 CLE(L): 30 degrees with 32+mph winds. Both QBs on the day fared pretty much the same.....played very poorly.

2007 NYG(L): 52 deg. with 23+mph winds.....against the SB winning team. Edwards outperformed Manning.

2008 DEN(W): 17 deg. TE had good day & outperformed Cutler.

2008 NE(L): 39 deg. 30-40mph winds. Edwards outperformed Cassel.

 

In terms of cold......what is the benchmark for a cold day?

For the sake of argument I am selecting 50degrees and under.....not including SF as he did not finish that game.....or the 4 games mentioned above.

2007 WASH(W): 40 deg. TE had good day & outperformed Campbell.

2007 MIA(W): 30 deg. Big day for TE(4TDs).....outperformed Lemon.

2007 PHI(L): 42 deg. Bad day for TE.....outperformed by McNabb

2008 NYJ(L): 49 deg. Decent day for TE(79QBR)....at least on par with Favre on the day.

2008 CLE(L): 30 deg. Very bad day for TE.

2008 KC(W): 50 deg. Very good day for TE(4TDs)

 

 

In looking at his results, I can't see the argument about the weather.

In the 4 horrendous condition days, he played as well or better than his opponent QBs......as he did in most of his 'cold' games. His win/loss in the cold is basically 50/50.....as were his performances.

 

Maybe someone can enlighten me as to where he is worse in the cold compared to most QBs because I certainly can't see it.

 

50 degrees isnt cold, 40 isnt even that cold in terms of this city. Who did he out perform on those days...

- Cleto Lemon...gagrbage

-Jason Campbell...way over rated and one of the largest problems in Washington...and barely outperformed...similar performances

-Cassel...the jury is still out he could end up being a bust in KC...

-Favre...almost 40/ last year of his career/on the downswing of the season

-2008 v. Denver- OUTPERFORMED CUTLER- haha- Cutler threw 359 yrds to TE 193..what a joke

-2007 vs leveland,(that was that windy, snowy game i think)not sure on specifics, but matching play against Derek Anderson and playing the Brown Defense is nothing to brag about

-An awful KC on a 50 degree day with a 3rd string QB...awesome...he did nothing good, he just did what was EXPECTED

-Outperformed Eli, with 3ints and 2 fumbles, not likely...5 turnovers and an L...good day TE

 

 

I am not saying TE is a bad QB(jury is still out), but common most of your facts are way way off. None of this is true at all, I think you made it up. There is still serious cause for concern in bad weather, he has proven nothing, he has consistently played poor, and thanks to my fact checking, been outplayed.

 

Is Cutler better than Edwards, I dont know. But chances are he is better in bad weather, in an offense with about as many threats as we have.

 

Not surprised but Denver though, new coach new guys, it happens, he is still unproven.

[Stenbar]

I'd love to trade our first and Edwards for Cutler and a second. Cutler would be the perfect QB for Evans and Owens and for the weather in Buffalo.

I like Edwards but if I had a choice I think its a nobrainer..I take Cutler right now all things being equal...Maybe in a year or two that might change but as of this second I think its a no brainer..

[Bright Lights]

One thing to remember, the defense in Denver was absolutly terrible. I live out in Colorado and listen to a lot of sports talk radio on my commute and of course there is a lot of discussion in regards to this. A lot of arguments swirl about the fact he hasn't taken his teams to the playoffs, etc. Some stats about Cutler jumped out at me, when the defense gives up less than 30 points he has won 2/3 of his games, when his defenses allow more than 30 he still has a better winnng percentage than a lot of other qb's (one example is eli was 1-16 or something like that in his games where that occured). Last year when the d allowed 30 or less Denver was 5-2, over 30 3-6. From what I've seen he has all the tools to be successful. If you told me to take my pick between Cutler or TE, I'd take Culter. However, I hope to be proven wrong.

Just looked up 2007 games in when the d gave up 30 or less Denver's record was 7-3. Last 2 yrs his record is 12-5 when the d gives up less than 30 points.

[Dibs]

50 degrees isnt cold, 40 isnt even that cold in terms of this city. Who did he out perform on those days...

- Cleto Lemon...gagrbage

-Jason Campbell...way over rated and one of the largest problems in Washington...and barely outperformed...similar performances

-Cassel...the jury is still out he could end up being a bust in KC...

-Favre...almost 40/ last year of his career/on the downswing of the season

-2008 v. Denver- OUTPERFORMED CUTLER- haha- Cutler threw 359 yrds to TE 193..what a joke

-2007 vs leveland,(that was that windy, snowy game i think)not sure on specifics, but matching play against Derek Anderson and playing the Brown Defense is nothing to brag about

-An awful KC on a 50 degree day with a 3rd string QB...awesome...he did nothing good, he just did what was EXPECTED

-Outperformed Eli, with 3ints and 2 fumbles, not likely...5 turnovers and an L...good day TE

 

 

I am not saying TE is a bad QB(jury is still out), but common most of your facts are way way off. None of this is true at all, I think you made it up. There is still serious cause for concern in bad weather, he has proven nothing, he has consistently played poor, and thanks to my fact checking, been outplayed.

 

Is Cutler better than Edwards, I dont know. But chances are he is better in bad weather, in an offense with about as many threats as we have.

 

Not surprised but Denver though, new coach new guys, it happens, he is still unproven.

You seem to be arguing something different to the subject.

The point in question is whether TE has a problem(above and beyond any norm) when he plays in cold weather.

I made no reference to his ability generally.....nor to the ability of his opponents. TE has not shown himself to be a good QB to this point in his career. He has shown that he may well become good but at this point he has obvious flaws in his game.....one of which is being touted as being overly effected by the cold. It stands to reason then that if he has had a good percent of decent games in the cold.....and in fact performed better than his opposing QBs who vary in ability....that he might actually have no problem with the cold. When you add in the factor of TEs young career and the fact that he is not actually good in warm weather there really is no evidence to support the myth.

 

-2008 v. Denver- OUTPERFORMED CUTLER- haha- Cutler threw 359 yrds to TE 193..what a joke

Cutler had a good game(when you factor in his 2 rushing TDs).....but TE had a better game. Extra yardage does not mean better game.

 

-An awful KC on a 50 degree day with a 3rd string QB...awesome...he did nothing good, he just did what was EXPECTED

You must be kidding!

75% completions, 273 yards, 2TDs, 6 rushes for 38 with another 2TDs, no turnovers.

Did just what was EXPECTED??? I'd hate to see what you'd expect from a pro-bowl level QB.

 

-Outperformed Eli, with 3ints and 2 fumbles, not likely...5 turnovers and an L...good day TE

Before you go denouncing a situation.....perhaps you should first look up the stats.

EM stats: 7-15-111 0TDs, 2INTs, QBR:32.2, 5 fumbles....2 lost

TE stats: 9-26-161 2TDs, 3INTs, QBR:42.8, 2 fumbles....0 lost

Did I say he had a good game???? No I didn't. What I said was that he out performed the soon to be Superbowl winning QB Manning(that means he was playing against a very good defense).

 

50 degrees isnt cold, 40 isnt even that cold in terms of this city.....

....I am not saying TE is a bad QB(jury is still out), but common most of your facts are way way off. None of this is true at all, I think you made it up. There is still serious cause for concern in bad weather, he has proven nothing, he has consistently played poor, and thanks to my fact checking, been outplayed.

No.....my facts are not way off. All of it is true.....and if you think I've made it up go check the game results on NFL.com.

 

Back to the argument....

Nobody can expect a QB to perform well in extraordinarily bad conditions.....no matter who the QB is.

Therefore.....if we take your 40degrees(which is bloody cold)....and we discount the 2007 CLE & 2008 NE games due to the wind making it impossible for a QB to have a decent game.....we end up with 4 games to see if he 'plays bad in the cold'.

 

2007 WASH(W): 40 deg. TE had good day

2007 MIA(W): 30 deg. Very good day for TE(4TDs)

2008 CLE(L): 30 deg. Very bad day for TE.

2008 DEN(W): 17 deg. TE had good day

 

Again....considering that he is very young and is not generally consistent(is not a 'good' QB yet).....how can anyone claim that he has a problem with cold weather???

[reddogblitz]

Before you go denouncing a situation.....perhaps you should first look up the stats.

EM stats: 7-15-111 0TDs, 2INTs, QBR:32.2, 5 fumbles....2 lost

TE stats: 9-26-161 2TDs, 3INTs, QBR:42.8, 2 fumbles....0 lost

Did I say he had a good game???? No I didn't. What I said was that he out performed the soon to be Superbowl winning QB Manning(that means he was playing against a very good defense).

 

I was at that game it totally supports the Trent is a fair weather guy. Totally. The game started sunny at 52 degrees or so. Trent came out on fire. Completed 7 out of his first 8 passes or something like that and had 2 TD passes. I know because the guy sitting next me was tallying up the stats. Looked like a blowout.

 

Then it started raining extremely hard. And it started getting colder. Trent then went on to complete like 2 out of his last 18 with no more TDs. Nothing. Eli didn't have to pass much in this weather thanks to Jacobs and Bradshaw and Trent throwing picks.

 

But, he did have a good game in Denver when it was cold and in Washington DC last year when it was cold. So, the jury's still out.

 

Go BILLS !!

[Hanoverbills]

And why are people already writing off Edwards? He's only played 1.5 regular seasons, last year was his first full season to start and he didn't screw it up like J.P. or Bledsoe or dare I say RJ. And no I'm not writing him off because I think he has more composure and maturity than Cutler.

Edwards last eight games as a starter in his first full year as a starter. 2 wins 6 lost, 5 tds and 8 int. First 6 games 5 wins 1 lost, 5 tds and 2 int. It looks like when the weather gets colder Edwards get worse. He did the same thing when he was a rookie. I know that everybody hates Losman but his only year as a starter, his last nine games 5 wins and 4 losts, 13 tds and 8 int. both years we were 7 and 9. Losman first seven games 2 wins and 5 lost, 6 tds 6 int. If Edwards plays bad his first two games this year, should we bench him? He will have 25 starts to his credit, Everybody wanted Losman bench after 26 starts saying he had enough time. This is why I think we would be better with Cutler because a strong arm would be better in cold weather than a noodle arm.

[Flbillsfan#1]

Jay Cutler was one of Mike Mayock's picks out of Vanderbuilt and my take is that Kiper can't wait to see Cutler fail so he can say " I told you so" like the baby he is.The kid was named SEC player of the year,at Vandy!

In his senior year at Vanderbilt they nearly upset the 13th-ranked Gators before falling 49–42 in the second overtime. Reflecting on Cutler's college career, former Denver Broncos safety John Lynch said, "If this guy can take a bunch of future doctors and lawyers and had them competing against the Florida Gators, this guy is a stud. Judy Battista (2006-12-31). "With Eye on Playoffs, Broncos Turn to Cutler". New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/31/sports/f...amp;oref=slogin. Retrieved on 2006-12-31.

 

Cutler is a gunslinger type like Brett Farve, ranked in the top 5-10 current QB's,so Kiper is an idiot! If Josh McDaniels trades Cutler away he is the bigger Idiot. It wasn't Cutler that made the Bronco's so lousy,it was their horrific defense.

 

Personally I think Cassel will fail at Kansas City, the O line is no where near as good as the Patriots,so it should be fun watching Cassel get slammed to the ground every 5 drop backs, welcome to Trent Greens world of major concussions.

 

I think both Kiper and McShay read reports from the NFL scouts and post a variation of opinions, both are full of hyperbole and cliches, take note that both the ESPN nerds have Aaron Maybin as the 10th 11th ranked player and yet Mayock says his combine workout was horrid at 15 lbs heavier and is most likely a 2nd round player now. It will be interesting to see where he is drafted and what he develops into in the NFL.

Vanderbilt is the STANFORD of the SEC. Cutler played MUCH better there than Trent did at Stanford & stayed healthy. I think the vast majority of OBJECTIVE fans would take Cutler over Trent ANY DAY.

[Flbillsfan#1]

Don't know if I'd want Cutler over Edwards, but I do know he looked pretty darn good against us last year.

 

Kiper is def just ticked he's been hyped.

 

Why do the Broncos want to trade him?

ANYTIME a new regime comes in they want to put their own stamp on the organization. I think the new Denver coach, a former Pats* OC wanted his boy. It is TOO FUNNY Belicheat leaked this really screwing over his old assistant.

[Ray]

Dibs......that is a great post. People are idiots stating that TE can not play in cold. It is really a very dumb argument without any evidence. Anyone at the Giants game 2y ago and the Pats game this yr can tell you nobody could pass well in those games. TE outplayed Manning the SB winning QB that year in that game. He also passed better than Cassel this year in the Pats game. Those were the two worst weather games I have EVER seen at the Ralph. Playing in 10 degree weather with no wind is a lot easier than 45 degrees and 40mph winds.

If TE cannot play in cold weather than no other QB can from what I have seen.

Who won the game in the 5th coldest game in Bills history? Oh yeah it was Trent when the Bills beat Denver and Cutler this year. Find a new argument people about the stupid cold weather...please.

[dave mcbride]

No I didn't......but I have noticed many posters claim they have.....so I thought I'd go through the games & see for myself.

 

I imagine most QBs will perform better in good conditions rather than bad(obviously)......the question then becomes.....does TE perform at a more reduced level in cold weather compared to other QBs?

It looks like you(and others) focus on wins rather than QB performance......I'm less inclined to do that as there are many, many factors that come into determining win/loss.....not just QB ability.

That being said.....here are the cold(and/or windy) games TE has played.

 

As far as I can tell.....

There have been 4 games in his career with horrendous conditions or extreme cold.

2007 CLE(L): 30 degrees with 32+mph winds. Both QBs on the day fared pretty much the same.....played very poorly.

2007 NYG(L): 52 deg. with 23+mph winds.....against the SB winning team. Edwards outperformed Manning.

2008 DEN(W): 17 deg. TE had good day & outperformed Cutler.

2008 NE(L): 39 deg. 30-40mph winds. Edwards outperformed Cassel.

 

In terms of cold......what is the benchmark for a cold day?

For the sake of argument I am selecting 50degrees and under.....not including SF as he did not finish that game.....or the 4 games mentioned above.

2007 WASH(W): 40 deg. TE had good day & outperformed Campbell.

2007 MIA(W): 30 deg. Big day for TE(4TDs).....outperformed Lemon.

2007 PHI(L): 42 deg. Bad day for TE.....outperformed by McNabb

2008 NYJ(L): 49 deg. Decent day for TE(79QBR)....at least on par with Favre on the day.

2008 CLE(L): 30 deg. Very bad day for TE.

2008 KC(W): 50 deg. Very good day for TE(4TDs)

 

 

In looking at his results, I can't see the argument about the weather.

In the 4 horrendous condition days, he played as well or better than his opponent QBs......as he did in most of his 'cold' games. His win/loss in the cold is basically 50/50.....as were his performances.

 

Maybe someone can enlighten me as to where he is worse in the cold compared to most QBs because I certainly can't see it.

In that Philly game from 07, Jason Peters was out, and Evans went out in the first quarter. He was working with scraps.

[bizell]

do you remember how evans got knocked out in that philly game?

 

trying to catch a pass from... ???

[BuffaninATL]

Kiper is a !@#$ing !@#$ and sucks at his job. You gotta wonder if Cutler banged his wife or something. The personal vendetta is ridiculous.

 

Kiper is married? .......would like to see that prize of a babe - NOT

[damj]

Kiper is a !@#$ing !@#$ and sucks at his job. You gotta wonder if Cutler banged his wife or something. The personal vendetta is ridiculous.

Kiper has great hair though ... not only is he a Hair Club For Mutants member, he is the president.

[damj]

Kiper is married? .......would like to see that prize of a babe - NOT

She is hot .... here is a pict

Mrs. Kiper

[reddogblitz]

He also passed better than Cassel this year in the Pats game.

 

What? Maybe in pure stats wise. But most of Trent's completions (the ones that Robert Royal didn't drop) came late in the game after it was already out of reach and the wind had died down a little. When it counted and they needed a play, Cassel came up with it. Remember the one to Welker in the 1st half I think it was? That counts way more than stats. And, that quick kick was amazing.

 

Saying Trent passed better than Cassel this year in the Pats game is a stretch IMHO.

[Magox]

No I didn't......but I have noticed many posters claim they have.....so I thought I'd go through the games & see for myself.

 

I imagine most QBs will perform better in good conditions rather than bad(obviously)......the question then becomes.....does TE perform at a more reduced level in cold weather compared to other QBs?

It looks like you(and others) focus on wins rather than QB performance......I'm less inclined to do that as there are many, many factors that come into determining win/loss.....not just QB ability.

That being said.....here are the cold(and/or windy) games TE has played.

 

As far as I can tell.....

There have been 4 games in his career with horrendous conditions or extreme cold.

2007 CLE(L): 30 degrees with 32+mph winds. Both QBs on the day fared pretty much the same.....played very poorly.

2007 NYG(L): 52 deg. with 23+mph winds.....against the SB winning team. Edwards outperformed Manning.

2008 DEN(W): 17 deg. TE had good day & outperformed Cutler.

2008 NE(L): 39 deg. 30-40mph winds. Edwards outperformed Cassel.

 

In terms of cold......what is the benchmark for a cold day?

For the sake of argument I am selecting 50degrees and under.....not including SF as he did not finish that game.....or the 4 games mentioned above.

2007 WASH(W): 40 deg. TE had good day & outperformed Campbell.

2007 MIA(W): 30 deg. Big day for TE(4TDs).....outperformed Lemon.

2007 PHI(L): 42 deg. Bad day for TE.....outperformed by McNabb

2008 NYJ(L): 49 deg. Decent day for TE(79QBR)....at least on par with Favre on the day.

2008 CLE(L): 30 deg. Very bad day for TE.

2008 KC(W): 50 deg. Very good day for TE(4TDs)

 

 

In looking at his results, I can't see the argument about the weather.

In the 4 horrendous condition days, he played as well or better than his opponent QBs......as he did in most of his 'cold' games. His win/loss in the cold is basically 50/50.....as were his performances.

 

Maybe someone can enlighten me as to where he is worse in the cold compared to most QBs because I certainly can't see it.

 

Great Research!!

 

that must of taken some time to put together.

 

For someone who has had only one full season under his belt, I think he has shown that there is a lot of promise he brings to the table.

 

You know, I was thinking the same thing the other day about how Trent doesn't play well in these terrible conditions and I even posted something about it. I seem to remember, just as you have brought up in your research, that Trent outperformed many of the other qb's in those same games.

 

I mean, it is difficult for anyone to pass in 30- 40 mph winds.

 

I'm excited to see what Trent does in his second full season.

[Fan in Chicago]

I'm excited to see what Trent does in his second full season.

Just a year ago, several of us (including me) were excited about what he will do in his first full season and boy was it under-whelming. I choose to be un-excited this time around.