Eagles and Peters

[Paup 1995MVP]

We could have 5 first rounders. You're not going to find a LT as good as Peters in this draft.

 

The only options for teams in our division against stopping our passing game is to blitz the hell out of Edwards before he can throw the ball. Having major holes at both LT and LG would not be wise.

You are retarded. Jason Peters is not close to being the best left tackle that ever walked the earth, so control yourself. If we could get two first round picks for him, that would be a tremendous deal. He may be wanting some unbelievable contract that is not realistic for the Bills to give him. The guy is a headcase, plain and simple. I am sure we could find someone in the first round to replace him, and get another stud as well. We would be sitting pretty with 3 first round picks.

[Magox]

SO the Arizona Qb was hampered so much he only threw for close to 400 yards, 3 TD's IN THE SUPER BOWL, AGAINST PROBABLY THE BEST DEFENSE IN THE LEAGUE, but that Gandy guy was the reason Arizona lost. Wow, I wish our left tackle let players harrass our Qb's enough to get 400 yards per game.

 

Do you even read what you write?

I'm not just saying this to argue with you, but when I watched that game, I remember thinking to myself, how glad I was to not have that loser in Gandy. He absolutely was getting burnt time in and time out by the Steelers with their edge rush. The game was so close VABills, that you would have to be naive to think that if they had strong play from the LT position that it wouldn't of changed the outcome of the game.

 

The example you make of Gandy is a bad one, and doesn't support your argument, if anything it hinders it.

[Magox]

You are retarded. Jason Peters is not close to being the best left tackle that ever walked the earth, so control yourself. If we could get two first round picks for him, that would be a tremendous deal. He may be wanting some unbelievable contract that is not realistic for the Bills to give him. The guy is a headcase, plain and simple. I am sure we could find someone in the first round to replace him, and get another stud as well. We would be sitting pretty with 3 first round picks.

oh really?

 

your sure that we can find another stud to replace him. If that is the case, you should be working as a scout

 

amazing how people believe we can just find studs as LT's like it is nothing hard to do

[Fingon]

SO the Arizona Qb was hampered so much he only threw for close to 400 yards, 3 TD's IN THE SUPER BOWL, AGAINST PROBABLY THE BEST DEFENSE IN THE LEAGUE, but that Gandy guy was the reason Arizona lost. Wow, I wish our left tackle let players harrass our Qb's enough to get 400 yards per game.

 

Do you even read what you write?

Let's see... a very close game... hmmmm... and one person performing absolutely awfully. Warner would have been much more efficient in the super bowl if they had a decent LT.

 

 

 

 

Contrary to popular thought, throwing for 400 yards doesn't mean you are playing as efficiently as possible

[Flbillsfan#1]

I'm not just saying this to argue with you, but when I watched that game, I remember thinking to myself, how glad I was to not have that loser in Gandy. He absolutely was getting burnt time in and time out by the Steelers with their edge rush. The game was so close VABills, that you would have to be naive to think that if they had strong play from the LT position that it wouldn't of changed the outcome of the game.

 

The example you make of Gandy is a bad one, and doesn't support your argument, if anything it hinders it.

I was thinking the same thing myself watching that game.

[VABills]

I'm not just saying this to argue with you, but when I watched that game, I remember thinking to myself, how glad I was to not have that loser in Gandy. He absolutely was getting burnt time in and time out by the Steelers with their edge rush. The game was so close VABills, that you would have to be naive to think that if they had strong play from the LT position that it wouldn't of changed the outcome of the game.

 

The example you make of Gandy is a bad one, and doesn't support your argument, if anything it hinders it.

Well we disagree. because i think if you overpay and way overpay for one position to someone who has shown he cares more about his status in the checkbook, then you do more damage to the team. If you can get a servicable LT, upgrade the interior of the line and get a pass rusing LB and DE, basically for the same money you would have for that selfish and mediocre playing LT at best, then you do it.

 

Think about it. For the 13.5 million per year he wants you can get a good LG at 4 mill, a serviceable LT at 4 mill, a rookie DE at 4 million and a vet pass rushing LB at 1.5-2 million for the same cost, why wouldn't you.

[alg]

Sure it is. Peters was ordinary last year. The fact that he was voted to the PB? Politics over performance. He also showed a selfishness that should have disappointed everyone but it only disappointed about half of Bills fans. The way he handled last offseason was ridiculous, and he lost a lot of respect.

 

He also has a recurring groin issue, which can haunt a player.

A voice of reason.

 

I'd take 2 1sts in a heartbeat, but not just one. Sure he has all world potential, but he also helped kill our OL last season because he is a selfish b*&%$#. What makes anyone here confident that he won't start coasting after a big contract? Or that he will not sit out and underperform every year until he gets the king's gold? He has done nothing to make me think he won't screw us in the end.

 

Peters is trouble waiting to happen, and if Philly wants to give us 2 1sts then would would be crazy to walk away from it.

[Alphadawg7]

You couldn't be more wrong. Do you know what talent is? He showed he could be an OT since he was playing tight end in college at Arkansas. Why do you think the Bills took him and developed him into a LT? Because they saw a talent that he had for the position. They saw his raw talent and groomed his skills to fine tune his technique and develop what they saw.

 

 

 

There isn't one Buffalo Bills fan who watches games that can say that Jason Peters doesn't have talent. You find me one. Are all of those fans scouts? Nope.

 

It doesn't matter how badly Peters plays, or what his production is like, he has talent and that will never change. A lot of people have talent but suck, but that isn't the same as Peters. He has played 2 full seasons at LT. One of them, he was the best, or at least top 3, LT's in the entire league. The second, he got a late start to the season and underperformed.

 

If you are willing to give up on a Pro Bowl player who underperformed for one season you ought to join the fans of the Detroit Lions.

 

I never said give up on him or that he had no talent...YOU said you wouldnt take 5 1st round picks for him and that NO tackle in this draft will ever be as good as he is]...You are the one who started the discussion on talent, not me. I only responded to the outrageous claim he is worth more than 5 1st round picks and that really bold statement of you claiming no tackle in this years draft will ever be as good as him when this is a good draft for them...

 

I know he has talent, and I am not arguing it. I am just saying, what makes him special other than the fact you have been TOLD he is special. I mean, its not like he makes sports center highlights or the camera follows lineman every play and you can sit back and go "wow, he is special". The fact remains, he still is living on his reputation based on one year of superb play.

 

People make excuses for him because he held out last year, but he should have come around as the year progressed, and he didnt...its not like he had a slow start and caught fire, he struggled all year. Look at Manning, he missed pre season with an injury, started a little slow, and then got back into form a handful of games into the season. Peters, never did that and was getting abused even late in the season. Holding out is NO excuse for his entire season being subpar...

 

Again, I am not saying he isnt a good player. I only addressed your over the top claims. By the way, he played down, even below his CURRENT contract that is still good for 2 years...so what has he done to deserve the contract HE wants? Shouldnt he earn it? Having one great year 2 years ago doesnt warrant a huge contract today in my book...He should have to go out this year and EARN that conract like he should have last year. And when he does, pay the man...until then, he is already under a fair contract based on his play last year...

[C.Biscuit97]

SO the Arizona Qb was hampered so much he only threw for close to 400 yards, 3 TD's IN THE SUPER BOWL, AGAINST PROBABLY THE BEST DEFENSE IN THE LEAGUE, but that Gandy guy was the reason Arizona lost. Wow, I wish our left tackle let players harrass our Qb's enough to get 400 yards per game.

 

Do you even read what you write?

 

 

And just imagine how much more effective their offense would be if they didn't have one of the worst running attacks in football. Gandy is serviceable. i guarantee Arizona is looking to upgrade that position.

 

I would also love for some to point out a time in history that a team trade a pro bowl LT in his prime and improved.

[BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land]

Where did this 2 1st rounders come from? It seems like you people just pulled this out of thin air.

 

Just because they have 2 don't mean they will give up 2.

[GR8PRKN]

That would be a tipical move for this FO, but, honestly do you think Ralf will allow them to draft a tackle agian in the first round? 2002 ring a bell?

[Magox]

I never said give up on him or that he had no talent...YOU said you wouldnt take 5 1st round picks for him and that NO tackle in this draft will ever be as good as he is]...You are the one who started the discussion on talent, not me. I only responded to the outrageous claim he is worth more than 5 1st round picks and that really bold statement of you claiming no tackle in this years draft will ever be as good as him when this is a good draft for them...

 

I know he has talent, and I am not arguing it. I am just saying, what makes him special other than the fact you have been TOLD he is special. I mean, its not like he makes sports center highlights or the camera follows lineman every play and you can sit back and go "wow, he is special". The fact remains, he still is living on his reputation based on one year of superb play.

 

People make excuses for him because he held out last year, but he should have come around as the year progressed, and he didnt...its not like he had a slow start and caught fire, he struggled all year. Look at Manning, he missed pre season with an injury, started a little slow, and then got back into form a handful of games into the season. Peters, never did that and was getting abused even late in the season. Holding out is NO excuse for his entire season being subpar...

 

Again, I am not saying he isnt a good player. I only addressed your over the top claims. By the way, he played down, even below his CURRENT contract that is still good for 2 years...so what has he done to deserve the contract HE wants? Shouldnt he earn it? Having one great year 2 years ago doesnt warrant a huge contract today in my book...He should have to go out this year and EARN that conract like he should have last year. And when he does, pay the man...until then, he is already under a fair contract based on his play last year...

Hey Alpha, you have to change your offseason wish list again

 

back to topic, of course we would trade him for 5 first round draft picks, but that will never happen.

 

I've always been a big believer of paying someone based on potential not reward. Usually if you reward someone who has played very well, then most likely you are going to overpay that player moving forward.

 

The problem as we all know is that Peter's former agent was a dumbazz and didn't value his ability correctly.

 

He was right to complain about his contract, for the simple fact that he had 3 years left remaining. he hired a big shot agent, and his agent gave him advice. You can't blame him for listening to the agent.

 

Now he did have a bad year by his standards, but you still have to pay the man his potential value. He's done it before, not just in the one year you mention, but he did it at the RT position as well, so he has had two good years.

 

Also, when a player has had very strong years, then you know he can do it, now it is just a matter of compensating him fairly. If you don't compensate him, well....

 

It's obvious what the results are. So sometimes, GM's just have to suck it up, and do what is best for the team and put the best product on the field. Paying your most talented O Lineman his value is a good decision. Hopefully we do that and we don't let him walk away.

 

Cuz if we don't, then I can just see Peters becoming an All Pro or Pro Bowl LT Tackle for Philadelphia for the next five years, while we would have drafted some ?? coming out of college who turns out to be just average. It's a crap shoot.

[robkmil]

And then sign Jeff Garcia as a backup.

 

Seriously, if we trade Peters this year, we're not serious about winning this season. Just imagine TO hearing the Bills traded their 2 time pro LT for a draft pick? I could hear Mount TO start rumbling from here.

 

would you rather trade peters or have him hold out until the first week of the season and then be just as effective as this past season?

[_ROOKIE_]

The Bills are not going to trade peters. They will re-sign him, and at worst they could move langston over to LT and put Peters ot RT and then he would be making ok money for a RT. Langston played well at LT when he was moved.

[Bill from NYC]

Folks, neither Super Bowl team had a pro bowl LT. Who cares?

 

The probowl has nothing to do with it, and we both know that. How many times in NFL history has a good LT been traded, let alone one as talented as Peters. It doesn't happen.

C'mon VA.....seriously, how long have Flo Adams and Tra Thomas stayed on their respective teams? Peters blows both of them away. Not only that, we are talking about replacing him with a rookie. Superstars can make that work. Ogden and Pace walked on the field and were great, but we pick at #11, not in the top 5. Do you want to draft a rookie, send him on the field, and tell him, "go ahead kid, go block Richard Seymour."

Guess what? Peters CAN block Richard Seymour. You just don't trade a guy this good.

[Alphadawg7]

How do you know 2008 wasn't just a bad year and that he won't bounce back? I can name plenty of players that have a down year and then come back.

 

You are absolutely right Steely, I am not disagreeing with you. My response was to the guy who said he wouldnt take 5 1st round picks for Peters and that NO Tackle in this years draft will ever be as good as Peters.

 

My only point was that Peters had a great season and a bad season the last 2 years, with the bad being the most recent. So, there is no certainty that he is the player of 2007 and that the bad year was the fluke. If Peters had been dominant his whole career or at least for a couple years straight, then fine, I can 08 was likely the fluke. But, he has ONE dominant year in 5, and its not even his most recent year. So we dont really know which is the real Peters...

 

So, IMO, the jury is still out on whether Peters is a good LT or ELITE LT. Dockery looked dominant in Washington, especially in the run game, then look what happened. He never regained that form again, at least not here.

 

I would tell him if he wants that contract then earn it on the field. If he wants to hold out again because of that, then moving him for a couple of 1st round picks is OK with me. His contract right now is fair based on the body of work he put together last year and he should be embarrased for giving up so many sacks. Not to mention, he has continually shown a "me" first attitude, even in his interviews. So, I am not sure he will have the motiviation to live up to his big contract once he gets it...

 

My preference, is definitely to KEEP him. However, if he wants to hold out to try and become the highest paid OL in the game (which he does not deserve) and then we move him because of that and get 2 first round picks (which I doubt will ever happen anyway) or McNabb as someone else suggested (again, never gonna happen), I would be fine with it.

[Magox]

would you rather trade peters or have him hold out until the first week of the season and then be just as effective as this past season?

i have an idea.

 

How about we sign him and avoid this whole charade

[BillsVet]

Guess what? Peters CAN block Richard Seymour. You just don't trade a guy this good.

 

No matter what, I don't like the way Peters/Parker handled the holdout last year. Despite a lackluster season, Peters is an elite talent and here's the question:

 

Why do you sign TO and trade away your best OL who happens to play the hardest position on the line? That's really making things harder for the entire offense.

 

Point is, I wouldn't trade Peters and the savings of not giving him a contract for the top pick in the draft. The uncertainty of picks is made worse by the requirement to pay them without any production whatsoever at the pro level.

 

Clayton is probably looking for the next big story to break. I think he's trying to create rather than report.

[Alphadawg7]

Hey Alpha, you have to change your offseason wish list again

 

back to topic, of course we would trade him for 5 first round draft picks, but that will never happen.

 

I've always been a big believer of paying someone based on potential not reward. Usually if you reward someone who has played very well, then most likely you are going to overpay that player moving forward.

 

The problem as we all know is that Peter's former agent was a dumbazz and didn't value his ability correctly.

 

He was right to complain about his contract, for the simple fact that he had 3 years left remaining. he hired a big shot agent, and his agent gave him advice. You can't blame him for listening to the agent.

 

Now he did have a bad year by his standards, but you still have to pay the man his potential value. He's done it before, not just in the one year you mention, but he did it at the RT position as well, so he has had two good years.

 

Also, when a player has had very strong years, then you know he can do it, now it is just a matter of compensating him fairly. If you don't compensate him, well....

 

It's obvious what the results are. So sometimes, GM's just have to suck it up, and do what is best for the team and put the best product on the field. Paying your most talented O Lineman his value is a good decision. Hopefully we do that and we don't let him walk away.

 

Cuz if we don't, then I can just see Peters becoming an All Pro or Pro Bowl LT Tackle for Philadelphia for the next five years, while we would have drafted some ?? coming out of college who turns out to be just average. It's a crap shoot.

 

I hear you Magox and agree for the most part. My stance looks as if I want to trade Peters, but I really prefer to keep him. My involvement in this thread really came down to the guy making those outlandish claims.

 

I do however have concerns about a new contract with him. I dont mind a nice raise for potential, but he wants to be the highest paid OL in the league, and I am not sure he will ever live up to that contract. If the FO renegotiates his contract (which they should as they promised they would), then I think a nice raise is fine. If he wants to be the highest paid player on the OL in the league though, I would tell him to go out there and earn that contract this year.

 

Give him a choice, a nice new contract, or go out and earn the contract he wants...As I mentioned in a post in this thread, Dockery looked like a yount dominant player that was brutal in the run game...we give him a huge contract and he doesnt live up to it.

[BillsFan74]

two first rounders this year, which would mean that we would have three.

 

Plus we could sign Pace as a stopgap for 2 yrs, maybe a possibility. Peters is still a better player than Pace and a pick.