AFC East Viewpoint on T.O. and Evans

[Lt. Dan's Revenge]

See you lost all credibility. Evans never goes across the middle.

 

Yes, he does. And more so than ever last year unless I'm completely missing something.

[VABills]

Yes, he does. And more so than ever last year unless I'm completely missing something.

You're missing something. When Reed went down that's what got us in trouble. None of our receiver were capable of doing crossing patterns and middle routes, thus making it much easier to cover. Evans has some issues when people get physical with him even on the outside.

 

Evans rarely goes over the middle and never near the LBers. He may do a deep middle route but that's not the same. It's also why we're eaier to pass rush against when reed was out. Other than RB's there was no checkdown receivers when Edwards was pressured.

[DazedandConfused]

The great ones step up and overcome.

 

IMO, he is Peerless Price version 2.0.

 

A few upgrades, but not much else.

You are right that Evans has not demonstrated that he is great (yet Bills fans hope) and Peerless both 1.0 ad 2,0 were not great receivers (if you want to make the case 1.0 was a great player then I will look for Arthur Blank who paid him a bunch of ATL money (and traded a first for this privilege) so you can talk about how great PP is.

 

The facts are that with pro bowl quality receiver on the other side PP made 94 catches. Is TO Pro Bow, quality? Not any more in my judgment, but he is coming off of three seasons in a row with 1000+ yards and 10 TDs or better. Even a TO in decline is such an upgrade over PP 2.0, Reed or Hardy that it is not unreasonable to look for even a not-great Evans to have a far better year than he has ever had and to be teamed with TO helps both.

 

This also in my mind is why you have Parrish man the #3 WR position because his proven speed and open field running ability from his extremely good PR work would reak havoc with the opposing DCs stategizing as he figures out how to defend against the Bills passing attack.

 

This would eliminate the possibility of dting both Evans and TO. The team may roll the coverage to one side or the other in sort of a pseudo over and under DT, but the reads by Edwards and the WRs will be to figure out which way they are rolling and go for hook to the other side if the DB is backpedaling or the double pump and fly if the CB covers him tight,

 

In 3 WR sets with Parrish as the slot guy, the opposing DC needs to decide whether to put his fastest DB on Parrish or Evans as well as deciding who to dt. Again Edwards needs to read who is singled and who has a mismatch and make the throw.

 

In general, I think most teams zone against 3 Bills WR and this does several things:

 

A. Creates space for Lynch who is rarely brought down by the first tackle to run.

B. We run more empty backfield 4 WR sets with Reed now getting to replay his rookie year when the work of Moulds/Price allowed him to pick on LBs and slow DBs except this time it will be even easier for him.

C. Keeps Edwards off his butt as when 5 defenders drop back into a zone this means it is 6 remaining defenders on 6 or 7 Bills as the other team tries to rush Edwards.

 

I think that the major statement from the AFC east opponents was that BB went out and signed Springs right away.

[Lt. Dan's Revenge]

You're missing something. When Reed went down that's what got us in trouble. None of our receiver were capable of doing crossing patterns and middle routes, thus making it much easier to cover. Evans has some issues when people get physical with him even on the outside.

 

Evans rarely goes over the middle and never near the LBers. He may do a deep middle route but that's not the same. It's also why we're eaier to pass rush against when reed was out. Other than RB's there was no checkdown receivers when Edwards was pressured.

 

Okay, maybe I am thinking about more deep in routes, because I know some Evans converted some first downs on those last season. I also remember a decent amount of quick slants going over the middle with him, which we could use even more of. Drag routes which forces a linebacker to pick him up in coverage more often than not? Eh, not so much. But I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing. You don't want him to take that kind of a beating week in and week out and get him killed. That doesn't make him any less of a receiver though. Owens should handle a lot of that along with Reed this season. JMO.

[VABills]

Okay, maybe I am thinking about more deep in routes, because I know some Evans converted some first downs on those last season. I also remember a decent amount of quick slants going over the middle with him, which we could use even more of. Drag routes which forces a linebacker to pick him up in coverage more often than not? Eh, not so much. But I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing. You don't want him to take that kind of a beating week in and week out and get him killed. That doesn't make him any less of a receiver though. Owens should handle a lot of that along with Reed this season. JMO.

Smith does it, harrison does as well. Again that is a huge set of routes that he is unwilling to do and makes him much easier to cover. It's also why having TO and last year even with Reed in there really makes the team better. Evans is good, but he is too limited in capability that he should never ever be considered great.

[Lt. Dan's Revenge]

Smith does it, harrison does as well. Again that is a huge set of routes that he is unwilling to do and makes him much easier to cover. It's also why having TO and last year even with Reed in there really makes the team better. Evans is good, but he is too limited in capability that he should never ever be considered great.

 

Granted, but isn't it very possible that it isn't so much that Evans doesn't have the ability or willingness to run these short, middle of the field routes, but that it just isn't incorporated into the Bills offensive gameplan for him as much as it should be? I think if he had the opportunity to run more crossing routes he could be very successful considering his open field speed and agility. Somehow I doubt he simply does not have it in his arsenal as a receiver or has some fear of doing so.

[VABills]

Granted, but isn't it very possible that it isn't so much that Evans doesn't have the ability or willingness to run these short, middle of the field routes, but that it just isn't incorporated into the Bills offensive gameplan for him as much as it should be? I think if he had the opportunity to run more crossing routes he could be very successful considering his open field speed and agility. Somehow I doubt he simply does not have it in his arsenal as a receiver or has some fear of doing so.

But you're just assuming he can, and isn't afraid. I suspect maybe that maybe he could and maybe it isn't called, but maybe he also can't/won't. Just an FYI from an independant source , scout ranks him the 22 best WR in the league.

[Lt. Dan's Revenge]

But you're just assuming he can, and isn't afraid. I suspect maybe that maybe he could and maybe it isn't called, but maybe he also can't/won't. Just an FYI from an independant source , scout ranks him the 22 best WR in the league.

 

22nd isn't a bad number by any means, but still seems a little low to me. Just for some perspective, off the top of my head I could name 12 guys who I think are better receivers in this league right now, in no particular order:

 

R. Moss

L. Fitzgerald

S. Smith

A. Johnson

A. Boldin

R. Wayne

M. Coston

T. Houshmanzadeh

B. Marshall

T.O.

G. Jennings

Calvin Johnson

 

If anyone has any to add that they think are better than #83 at this stage, feel free!

[VABills]

22nd isn't a bad number by any means, but still seems a little low to me. Just for some perspective, off the top of my head I could name 12 guys who I think are better receivers in this league right now, in no particular order:

 

R. Moss

L. Fitzgerald

S. Smith

A. Johnson

A. Boldin

R. Wayne

M. Coston

T. Houshmanzadeh

B. Marshall

T.O.

G. Jennings

Calvin Johnson

 

If anyone has any to add that they think are better than #83 at this stage, feel free!

here's who they have:

 

1 Randy Moss WR NE -- 95 Moss is currently the most-prolific... More

2 Braylon Edwards WR CLE -- 93 Edwards realized his vast potential... More

Terrell Owens WR BUF -- 93 Last year was his 12th year in... More

Reggie Wayne WR IND -- 93 Wayne is a productive receiver... More

5 Chad Johnson WR CIN -- 92 Johnson is amongst the most productive... More

6 Steve Smith WR CAR -- 91 Smith is an undersized wideout... More

7 Andre Johnson WR HOU -- 90 Johnson is a five-year veteran... More

8 Marques Colston WR NO -- 86 Colston has very good size, athletic... More

9 Brandon Marshall WR DEN -- 85 Marshall is a big target who is... More

Anquan Boldin WR ARI -- 85 Boldin is a big, tough and competitive... More

RK PLAYER POS TEAM ALERT GRADE COMMENT

Larry Fitzgerald WR ARI -- 85 Fitzgerald has quickly become one... More

12 Plaxico Burress WR NYG -- 83 Burress is an experienced starting... More

Santonio Holmes WR PIT -- 83 Holmes is a tight-skinned athlete... More

14 Devin Hester WR CHI -- 82 Hester progressed from being strictly... More

Torry Holt WR STL -- 82 He's a very good athlete with good... More

T.J. Houshmandzadeh WR SEA -- 82 Houshmandzadeh put together an... More

17 Roy Williams WR DAL -- 79 Williams has an excellent combination... More

Dwayne Bowe WR KC -- 79 Bowe is coming off an impressive... More

Hines Ward WR PIT -- 79 Ward is getting up in age, isn't... More

RK PLAYER POS TEAM ALERT GRADE COMMENT

20 Greg Jennings WR GNB -- 78 Jennings is a versatile player... More

Wes Welker WR NE -- 78 Welker is coming off his most productive... More

[Lt. Dan's Revenge]

here's who they have:

 

1 Randy Moss WR NE -- 95 Moss is currently the most-prolific... More

2 Braylon Edwards WR CLE -- 93 Edwards realized his vast potential... More

Terrell Owens WR BUF -- 93 Last year was his 12th year in... More

Reggie Wayne WR IND -- 93 Wayne is a productive receiver... More

5 Chad Johnson WR CIN -- 92 Johnson is amongst the most productive... More

6 Steve Smith WR CAR -- 91 Smith is an undersized wideout... More

7 Andre Johnson WR HOU -- 90 Johnson is a five-year veteran... More

8 Marques Colston WR NO -- 86 Colston has very good size, athletic... More

9 Brandon Marshall WR DEN -- 85 Marshall is a big target who is... More

Anquan Boldin WR ARI -- 85 Boldin is a big, tough and competitive... More

RK PLAYER POS TEAM ALERT GRADE COMMENT

Larry Fitzgerald WR ARI -- 85 Fitzgerald has quickly become one... More

12 Plaxico Burress WR NYG -- 83 Burress is an experienced starting... More

Santonio Holmes WR PIT -- 83 Holmes is a tight-skinned athlete... More

14 Devin Hester WR CHI -- 82 Hester progressed from being strictly... More

Torry Holt WR STL -- 82 He's a very good athlete with good... More

T.J. Houshmandzadeh WR SEA -- 82 Houshmandzadeh put together an... More

17 Roy Williams WR DAL -- 79 Williams has an excellent combination... More

Dwayne Bowe WR KC -- 79 Bowe is coming off an impressive... More

Hines Ward WR PIT -- 79 Ward is getting up in age, isn't... More

RK PLAYER POS TEAM ALERT GRADE COMMENT

20 Greg Jennings WR GNB -- 78 Jennings is a versatile player... More

Wes Welker WR NE -- 78 Welker is coming off his most productive... More

 

Wow. Devin Hester, Dwayne Bowe, Roy Williams, and Torry Holt/Hines Ward at this stage of their careers over Evans? Really? Nonsense. The only player I can see other than the ones I have named is Burress, but we all know his situation over the past year. Welker, maybe, but I think his success has more to do with Moss commanding so much attention on the other side than anything else, so he loses points for that. Santonio Holmes had a really good post season, but other than that hasn't been very impressive over the majority of the past few seasons. Would still take Evans over him in a heartbeat. Braylon Edwards has a ton of talent, but this report must be over a year old, because he was by and large brutal last season.

[VABills]

Wow. Devin Hester, Dwayne Bowe, Roy Williams, and Torry Holt/Hines Ward at this stage of their careers over Evans? Really? Nonsense. The only player I can see other than the ones I have named is Burress, but we all know his situation over the past year. Welker, maybe, but I think his success has more to do with Moss commanding so much attention on the other side than anything else, so he loses points for that. Santonio Holmes had a really good post season, but other than that hasn't been very impressive over the majority of the past few seasons. Would still take Evans over him in a heartbeat. Braylon Edwards has a ton of talent, but this report must be over a year old, because he was by and large brutal last season.

I personally don't agree, but it is less subjective than a bunch of homers who over estimate their players.

 

I think Andre Johnson is probably 1st or 2nd in the league.

 

Oh and yeah Roy Williams is a lot better than Evans. Probably top 5.

[Alphadawg7]

listen alpha dog, i dont know why youre getting all "ALPHA DOG" on me here.

 

Obviously 2006 was before Revis was around, but you claimed that the Jets have owned Evans. I refuted that by saying Evans has had some of his best games against the Jets. And he played pretty damn good against Revis in 2007. I don't see how you could disagree with that assessment. Revis played better in 2008, Evans played better in 2007.

 

Revis is a great CB, but Evans was double and triple covered in our two games against them in 2008. Everyone on offense sucked against the Jets in 2008, I don't think you can put it all on Lee.

 

And if you remember (or checked YOUR facts), the first Jets game in 2007 when lee had 6 for 72 was Trent's FIRST start. The both played pretty efficient, and I don't think you could have asked for much more from either Trent or Lee in that game. And the second game, how can you not remember that catch on Revis from JP? Revis played great defense, but there was nothing else he could do on Lee's play.

 

I understand that 2006 and 2007 stats really don't matter too much, I was just using them to say that Lee has had good games against the Jets. Some of his best. Revis got better and shut down Lee in 2008. I don't think it will be the same next year.

 

And by the way, I think this whole internet macho man BS that you pull on everyone that disagrees with you is retarded. You can get your point across without exploding venom through the keyboard.

 

First off, I never said the Jets owned Evans, I said "Revis and the Jets owned Evans", referring to the Revis era...and how is 6 catches for 70 yards with no TD's against a rookie CB "pretty darn good" when you are a #1 WR in the NFL? They have faced each other 4 times, and the only game Evans had a great game came in Revis's rookie year. So 75% of the games against each other, Evans has been a NON factor...in fact, 2 of the games, Evans just got owned and was blanketed by Revis all day and those were both in 2008 as Revis is developing into a pretty good DB. And he is only getting better.

 

My original post was in response to someone laughing at the idea of Revis covering Evans, when Revis has clearly had the upper hand in most games they have faced each other.

 

Because I am direct its macho BS?...didnt know you were so sensitive...I will make sure I keep it light and fluffy for you in the future so your ego and feelings don't get bruised...or you could solve it by just posting better posts by not comparing how Lee has fared agaisnt a guy and a team a year before that guy was even drafted...LMAO...

[Lt. Dan's Revenge]

I personally don't agree, but it is less subjective than a bunch of homers who over estimate their players.

 

I think Andre Johnson is probably 1st or 2nd in the league.

 

Oh and yeah Roy Williams is a lot better than Evans. Probably top 5.

 

Totally agree on Andre Johnson, but Roy Williams? No thanks. One of the most overrated receivers in the NFL IMO, and nowhere near top 5.

[offde-fence]

you cant play man against either guy. You just cant........

 

However, I do respect the hell outta Revis & Lito, both great players!

 

Bottom line we need to get the OL right, or else it wont matter who we have at WR!

 

 

 

I absolutely agree! Not a lot of fans on these message boards - I'm new to 'em - seem to be thinking or mentioning the O-line, but that has gotta be our new #1 priority. A solid O-line will let the recievers get open and give Trent time, as well as paving the way for our running backs. BUT, a lousy line and every opponents strategy at stopping T.O. and Evans will simply be lighting up Edwards before he has the time to throw the ball.

[deep2evans]

I personally don't agree, but it is less subjective than a bunch of homers who over estimate their players.

 

I think Andre Johnson is probably 1st or 2nd in the league.

 

Oh and yeah Roy Williams is a lot better than Evans. Probably top 5.

 

You gotta be kidding me. Roy Williams?

 

It's a HUGE stretch to put him in the top 15...

[Alphadawg7]

You gotta be kidding me. Roy Williams?

 

It's a HUGE stretch to put him in the top 15...

 

LMAO...Agreed...I wouldnt put Roy Williams in top 20...Evans has top 10 talent, but he needs help from his QB. He isnt going to dominate a game physically...If Trent steps his game up this year, Lee could have a top 10 year...

[Lt. Dan's Revenge]

You gotta be kidding me. Roy Williams?

 

It's a HUGE stretch to put him in the top 15...

 

Exactly, that was my reaction too.

[Magox]

Exactly, that was my reaction too.

I tell you what is even more laughable

 

 

The Cowboys gave up a first-round pick in 2009, plus a third- and sixth-rounder that year for Williams and a seventh-round pick in '10, and then on top of that payed him $45 million

 

Detroit finally made a good move,

 

they must be thinking this --->

[Lt. Dan's Revenge]

I tell you what is even more laughable

 

 

The Cowboys gave up a first-round pick in 2009, plus a third- and sixth-rounder that year for Williams and a seventh-round pick in '10, and then on top of that payed him $45 million

 

Detroit finally made a good move,

 

they must be thinking this --->

 

Great move by Detroit. And it's no coencidence that it happened shortly after that Millen guy left town....

[Alphadawg7]

I tell you what is even more laughable

 

 

The Cowboys gave up a first-round pick in 2009, plus a third- and sixth-rounder that year for Williams and a seventh-round pick in '10, and then on top of that payed him $45 million

 

Detroit finally made a good move,

 

they must be thinking this --->

 

Its Karma paying them back for the fleecing they got from Minnesota for Herschel...maybe they should have a new reality show called "My name is Jerry" about it...LMAO...