Former Bill Matt Bowen article on Owens and Jauron

[Bill from NYC]

Which, I believe, have been pretty-to-very good. I know you disagree.

 

Of course Jauron is involved in the draft. I think there are very few, if any, head coaches who aren't actively involved with the draft.

 

Absolutely, but it appears that he had something close to final say. This is how I interpreted Tim's answers, as did GG.

 

As for the quality of the drafts, I think 07 was very good, 06 was lousy, and 08 remains to be seen.

[The Dean]

Absolutely, but it appears that he had something close to final say. This is how I interpreted Tim's answers, as did GG.

 

As for the quality of the drafts, I think 07 was very good, 06 was lousy, and 08 remains to be seen.

 

 

Wow, I didn't get that impression from Tim's answer, at all.

[Lurker]

What does that mean? The player does not get a gold star next to his name for the week? The player gets sent to bed without dessert?

...a #1 draft choice like McCargo gets nailed to the bench. A "largest contract in Bills history" OG gets cut.

[Mr. WEO]

"...but Jauron won’t let that “character” dismantle his view of winning."

 

I'm sorry, but that's exactly what I would hope TO can do. Because Jauron's view of winning has been killing us for 3 years sand counting.

 

DJ's "view of winning"==="it's hard".

 

Really, someone SHOULD "dismantle" DJ's view of winning.

[Cynical]

...a #1 draft choice like McCargo gets nailed to the bench. A "largest contract in Bills history" OG gets cut.

 

Apparently McCargo and Dockery didn't earn enough Gold stars during the year.

 

You forgot one: an underachieving high motor LDE with a fat contract is retained ...

[Cynical]

Jauron's problem isn't that he is to soft on his players. His problem is he makes s#itty gameday decisions and lets his offense, and defensive, play too passively.

 

So what you are saying is: overall, he's a lousy coach.

[Adam]

Players love that Dick treats them as men.

 

unfortunately, most NFL players don't produce at their peak level when treated this way.

 

they respond as the prima donnas and thugs that they are - '

 

That's why coaches like Parcells get the most out of his players by not being their bud and allowing them to manlike slackers.

 

I've had enough of the politically correct way to coach and would much prefer a butt-kicker who wins

I think he has gotten the most out of them. This has been a horrible group over the last decade

[The Dean]

So what you are saying is: overall, he's a lousy coach.

 

 

Overall, yes...at least he has been, so far. He's not the worst, by far. But, he isn't getting the most out of the talent on the field. I also think his hesitation, and aversion to risk, rubs off on the players.

 

But, I think the team plays hard for him, and does what he asks them to do...he just isn't asking them to do the right things...IMO, of course.

[ndirish1978]

excellent article

[Bill from NYC]

Wow, I didn't get that impression from Tim's answer, at all.

 

>>>>> But based on what I've been told it's a consensus. Modrak pitches the guys he wants. Guy pitches the guys he wants. Jauron approves or disapproves.<<<<<

 

How else can this be interpreted? I have not read anything from anyone who would have better access to this info than TG, have you?

 

Brian, we have been wondering about this stuff for many years. Before learning this from TG, I was under the impression that Levy had the "final say" on draft day in 06. It was an honest mistake too, whereas this would seem to be under the purview of the General Manager, wouldn't you agree? Of course, Parcells, Holgrem, and other coaches have worn 2 hats. I remind you that 06 was Jauron's first year with the team, and his record was one of a serial loser. Odd indeed for him to be handed this much authority, but it is what it is.

 

Now, I did notice that Tim mentioned a "consensus." In conversations we have had, you have mentioned that perhaps some of us never worked in an environment where a consensus ruled the day. I probably fit this category to a degree, so maybe it is hard for me to relate as such. Given that, I am thinking that someone, in the event of a lack of a majority, has to make the decision. And, let's face it, some people in the room would have to have less of a say than others. This is all but certain.

 

So, if Tim says that Jauron has the power to approve or disapprove, I believe him because that imo is as close to the inside as you and I (and the others who have discussed this for years) are going to get.

 

It almost reminds me of the scene in the Godfather, where he said, "It was Barzini all along. Tartaglia was a pimp."

[K-9]

Players love that Dick treats them as men.

 

unfortunately, most NFL players don't produce at their peak level when treated this way.

they respond as the prima donnas and thugs that they are - '

 

That's why coaches like Parcells get the most out of his players by not being their bud and allowing them to manlike slackers.

 

I've had enough of the politically correct way to coach and would much prefer a butt-kicker who wins

 

Complete and utter nonsense.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Beerball]

Anyone else go "hmmmmmm" when reading about how Owens will help Parrish because he can move inside?

[cowtippur]

Overall, yes...at least he has been, so far. He's not the worst, by far. But, he isn't getting the most out of the talent on the field. I also think his hesitation, and aversion to risk, rubs off on the players.

 

But, I think the team plays hard for him, and does what he asks them to do...he just isn't asking them to do the right things...IMO, of course.

Overall I have to agree with you, Dean. I'm much the same, I was kind of hoping for DJ's dismissal but I have always liked his ethics. I have never heard a player, coach, or analyst say anything negative about his character.

Now, let's hope something was learned from last year's offense and hope T.O. can be logically put into the game plan.

Not to mention, maybe some defensive help, which seems to have been forgotten by most around here since the signing of "That Player", as Parcells would call him.

[Ramius]

Sorry if already posted. This is a great site btw:

 

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/0...h-jauron-bills/

 

Thanks Coach. Great read.

 

Amazing how these articles aren't included on the front page, yet everyday we make sure to get the daily dose of rubbish that is spewed from whatever pimply faced 13 year old is currently working at realfootball365.

[Steely Dan]

For those who think Jauron is simply a push-over, Bowen disagrees.

 

 

 

I think it means he deals with the issues, in private, behind closed doors, the way professionals do.

 

Some of you guys think if a guy isn't screaming, or calling out players in front of reporters, then he isn't holding them responsible.

 

I'm not crazy about Jauron's decisions (or non decisions), and I wasn't happy that he was retained, but that has nothing to do with his ability to manage players.

 

 

It has nothing to do with "political correctness" or "being their bud". Tom Coughlin, always a good technical coach, couldn't succeed, because he didn't treat his players as men. He had to change...the result? Super Bowl, in the first year of the new attitude.

 

Players will ruin a coach they don't respect, or one they hate. You have to be respected first, and no coach is going to get respect if he treats his players like dogs (or assumes they are thugs).

 

Now, of course that isn't the only thing that mattered, but even he admits it went a long way (saved his job, to be frank). Parcells isn't the bully that he is made out to be, either. The point it to treat men like men. Tell them what they need to do, and hold them accountable for their actions.

 

Jauron's problem isn't that he is to soft on his players. His problem is he makes s#itty gameday decisions and lets his offense, and defensive, play too passively.

 

Parcells is a master psychologist. He knows exactly what buttons to push to get the most out of a player. One example was given by a former player of his. When this happened he was an old veteran. At training camp Parcells told him that if he wanted he could take a few plays of practice off. The player looked at him and Parcells told him really. That player said he's never worked as hard that season than he ever did before. That was the button to punch on that player. Other players have a different way to be motivated.

 

 

Overall, yes...at least he has been, so far. He's not the worst, by far. But, he isn't getting the most out of the talent on the field. I also think his hesitation, and aversion to risk, rubs off on the players.

But, I think the team plays hard for him, and does what he asks them to do...he just isn't asking them to do the right things...IMO, of course.

 

[The Dean]

>>>>> But based on what I've been told it's a consensus. Modrak pitches the guys he wants. Guy pitches the guys he wants. Jauron approves or disapproves.<<<<<

 

How else can this be interpreted? I have not read anything from anyone who would have better access to this info than TG, have you?

 

Brian, we have been wondering about this stuff for many years. Before learning this from TG, I was under the impression that Levy had the "final say" on draft day in 06. It was an honest mistake too, whereas this would seem to be under the purview of the General Manager, wouldn't you agree? Of course, Parcells, Holgrem, and other coaches have worn 2 hats. I remind you that 06 was Jauron's first year with the team, and his record was one of a serial loser. Odd indeed for him to be handed this much authority, but it is what it is.

 

Now, I did notice that Tim mentioned a "consensus." In conversations we have had, you have mentioned that perhaps some of us never worked in an environment where a consensus ruled the day. I probably fit this category to a degree, so maybe it is hard for me to relate as such. Given that, I am thinking that someone, in the event of a lack of a majority, has to make the decision. And, let's face it, some people in the room would have to have less of a say than others. This is all but certain.

 

So, if Tim says that Jauron has the power to approve or disapprove, I believe him because that imo is as close to the inside as you and I (and the others who have discussed this for years) are going to get.

 

It almost reminds me of the scene in the Godfather, where he said, "It was Barzini all along. Tartaglia was a pimp."

 

 

Bill, I know you are a bright guy, but I think you haven't ever worked at a high level in an organization that has a collaborative decision making process, or you wouldn't make some of the statements you make. I can't explain it all, here, and you actually have to be involved, or at least observe it up close, to understand how it works.

 

Let's start with Marv. I'm not sure why you think he had the "final say" on anything. Ralph has the final say on EVERYTHING that involves the acquisition of players, coaches, etc. As GM, Levy was the point man, and the top manager of the process. All things came through Marv. But, you seem to think that, if Marv didn't like a move it didn't happen, and conversely if he wanted to get someone, it happened irrespective of the opinions of the others. I simply don't believe that is the case. Nor do I think Jauron gets the ultimate say in who the Bills get now. It is more complicated, and nuanced, than that.

 

If we're going to quote Tim, here, I'd start with this one:

 

Nobody makes a decision without Ralph's blessing. But in general, Tom Modrak makes the draft decisions. John Guy makes the free agency recommendations and Jim Overdorf keeps them within the budget.

 

If I was going to guess as to how their system works, I'd probably say it goes like this: Modrak is seen as the draft expert and Guy as the Pro player expert. They are the guys who probably generate most of the recommendations, when it comes to player moves. If Ralph, Dick or Russ have an interest in someone on their own, they are likely to go to one of these guys and say something like, "I like Joe Blow. What do you think? Can you get some info on him? Get something together on him and we'll discuss it." (Of course, every knows about the major players in FA and the draft, so it's a given that Modrak and Guy are working on that stuff, already.)

 

The info gets distributed to the team, and the guys make their pitches, they discuss, argue, etc. Maybe they go to Overdorf to get an idea of what the guy would cost, cap implications, etc. I'm sure, if it's a trade, someone has the info as to what it would take to even think of getting the trade done. If your point guys are good (or at least trusted, as the Bills guys seem to be...they've had their jobs for a while), their recommendations are probably acepted most of the time. But, of course there are going to be disagreements.

 

When there are disagreements (again, this happens less than most of us probably think, once all the info is on the table), there is more discussion. How strongly held are the differing opinions? How many of the guys disagree, and what are their roles? If Jauron really doesn't want a player, I think that has to be taken VERY seriously by all...he's the HC and has to actually manage and use the player. But, at the same time, Jauron probably has a lot of respect for his colleagues and, if they are telling him that they all like a certain player, he probably will listen, and reconsider his opposition. This is especially true, when it comes to College players, who has limited exposure to.

 

Eventually, they take a recommendation to Ralph. I'm guessing that a vast majority of the time, it is a consensus recommendation. Ralph approves, or maybe once in a blue moon, turns it down. In the cases where there is still dissent, Brandon (probably) takes the issue to Ralph. Maybe Ralph joins the discussion and hears the sides out, and weighs-in. If there is no consensus after that, Ralph probably ends up making the call (he will, eventually, anyway).

 

Maybe, when Levy was involved, his voice at the table was as strong as the other "football" guys, and his opinion may have carried a little extra weight. I doubt Brandon has that type of credibility in the room, or with Ralph...at least not yet. Either way, those Levy (and perhaps Brandon) are the leaders of the discussion...they set the tone, make sure everyone is heard, tell someone who is clueless on the issue to shut the hell up, etc. They are the guys who have to work the system, understand the organization, etc.

 

Now, that sounds complicated, but it works better than it sounds, the vast majority of the time. As long as those involved generally respect each other, and aren't prima donnas. Where it can get more complicated, from my experience, is sometimes one, or two, of the players are "in favor", and have Ralph's ear, more than the others. The politics of the situation can get messy, if not properly controlled. I have a feeling Levy was good at managing that. I have no idea about Brandon.

 

I think the day of the GM who makes all the decisions is close to dead, in the NFL. More teams are going to a team approach, and certainly not letting one guy be the HC/GM. There is too much at stake. One guy, unfettered, can turn a team around faster, if he really knows what he is doing, than the team approach. He can also completely screw the pooch, in a heartbeat.

[Buftex]

When the Bills hired Mike Mularkey, I was really wanting them to hire Dick Jauron. I have a very good friend whose football opinions I trust, who is also a huge Bears fan. I watch the Bears games with him at least a few times every year. He always told me that Jauron got screwed in Chicago, and that the Bears had made a big mistake in letting him go. I must admit, I was following that logic, up until about week 11 of this past season. I just couldn't fathom how clueless Jauaron and/or his coaching staff look on game days. And it has been going on for three years in Buffalo. I have no doubt that he is a terrific guy, his players seem to love him, and I think that is important, to a degree. I don't blame all of the Bills woes on him, but man, it really is hard to overlook game day, when evaluating him.

 

BTW, am I going nuts, or did Matt Bowen spend about a month in Buffalo? I remember we got him from Washington, and he played for the Rams and Packers before that. Didn't he get injured during preseason in Buffalo, and then cut pretty shortly after that? Somebody help me... or am I confusing him with Larry Webster?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

When the Bills hired Mike Mularkey, I was really wanting them to hire Dick Jauron. I have a very good friend whose football opinions I trust, who is also a huge Bears fan. I watch the Bears games with him at least a few times every year. He always told me that Jauron got screwed in Chicago, and that the Bears had made a big mistake in letting him go. I must admit, I was following that logic, up until about week 11 of this past season. I just couldn't fathom how clueless Jauaron and/or his coaching staff look on game days. And it has been going on for three years in Buffalo. I have no doubt that he is a terrific guy, his players seem to love him, and I think that is important, to a degree. I don't blame all of the Bills woes on him, but man, it really is hard to overlook game day, when evaluating him.

 

BTW, am I going nuts, or did Matt Bowen spend about a month in Buffalo? I remember we got him from Washington, and he played for the Rams and Packers before that. Didn't he get injured during preseason in Buffalo, and then cut pretty shortly after that? Somebody help me... or am I confusing him with Larry Webster?

He was signed in March of 2006. He played 5 games for the Bills during an injury-shortened season. He was cut by the Bills in March of 2007.

 

Basically he spent a year with the team.

[Bill from NYC]

When there are disagreements (again, this happens less than most of us probably think, once all the info is on the table), there is more discussion. How strongly held are the differing opinions? How many of the guys disagree, and what are their roles? If Jauron really doesn't want a player, I think

I think the day of the GM who makes all the decisions is close to dead, in the NFL. More teams are going to a team approach, and certainly not letting one guy be the HC/GM. There is too much at stake. One guy, unfettered, can turn a team around faster, if he really knows what he is doing, than the team approach. He can also completely screw the pooch, in a heartbeat.

 

Thanks for the response which makes sense.

 

Perhaps I wasn't clear that I was speaking only in terms of the war room. I haven't complained so much about player trades over the years. In fact, I praised Levy on the MaGahee deal. It was a good one imo.

 

What do you think happens in a scenario in which Denver calls (this was said to have happened in 06)? There wouldn't seem to be time for a big meeting. Am I being clear? Remember, there are 15 minutes between picks, and the Bills might not have been the first team that Denver called during this span. Also, Denver could at the same time be on the phone with another club. In other words, wouldn't this system eliminate the possibility of a split second decision?

The way I always looked at it, this would be where sound business relationships would enter in. For instance, if you and I were GMs, I think that we would have a good working relationship in that we wouldn't waste eachothers time, or even try to screw eachother over. I guess my point is that if you are correct, this system can be good in some ways but it has flaws of it's own. Accountability would be one. Another would be the seeming inability to make a fast decision in the war room.

By the way, Levy says that he turned down multiple trade down offers to take Whitner. Was it Modrak who wanted Cutler, or someone else? We have a pretty good guess who won that battle.

 

Off topic, but a good friend of mine used to have great inside info about the jests. He said that Hess was 100% hands off, except he insisted on bringing in Kotite. Again, I trust this guy, and it is an indication that owners should stay away from football decisions.

[The Dean]

Thanks for the response which makes sense.

 

Perhaps I wasn't clear that I was speaking only in terms of the war room. I haven't complained so much about player trades over the years. In fact, I praised Levy on the MaGahee deal. It was a good one imo.

 

What do you think happens in a scenario in which Denver calls (this was said to have happened in 06)? There wouldn't seem to be time for a big meeting. Am I being clear? Remember, there are 15 minutes between picks, and the Bills might not have been the first team that Denver called during this span. Also, Denver could at the same time be on the phone with another club. In other words, wouldn't this system eliminate the possibility of a split second decision?

The way I always looked at it, this would be where sound business relationships would enter in. For instance, if you and I were GMs, I think that we would have a good working relationship in that we wouldn't waste eachothers time, or even try to screw eachother over. I guess my point is that if you are correct, this system can be good in some ways but it has flaws of it's own. Accountability would be one. Another would be the seeming inability to make a fast decision in the war room.

By the way, Levy says that he turned down multiple trade down offers to take Whitner. Was it Modrak who wanted Cutler, or someone else? We have a pretty good guess who won that battle.

 

Off topic, but a good friend of mine used to have great inside info about the jests. He said that :lol:Hess was 100% hands off, except he insisted on bringing in Kotite . Again, I trust this guy, and it is an indication that owners should stay away from football decisions.

 

 

Yikes! But, truthfully, that makes sense, as you don't want to make decisions about players w/o the involvement of the head coach...even if that coach is Kotite (yech! ).

 

But, I appreciate the narrowing of the scope of your question. Of course, I don't know exactly how the Bills run their war room, and make those instant decisions, but I could paint a scenario.

 

Going in, the team has a list of guys they are interested in. The probably have a list of their favorites, in each round, and at each position. I would imagine they have already discussed possible trade scenarios, and have a general outline of what they would, and would not, do under those scenarios.

 

But, you are right, when it comes to the instant decision, someone is running the room, and has to make a decision. I would imagine that Levy was the guy, but he is in contact with Jauron and Ralph (either in the room, or by phone). They already have Modrak's evaluations of all the guys, so they know what he thinks of them, and they have likely had discussions about the players involved (for the first couple of rounds, anyway).

 

So, in you scenario there are fewer people involved in the decision, at the instant it is made, but all have had their input into the process and that information should be what drives the decision. So, in my guessing scenario, Levy takes the calls, and evaluates the offerings. He likely has a quick discussion with Jauron (but Jauron may not be that involved here, as they know what players he wants, too) or whoever, and they quickly decide if this trade works withing the context of what they are trying to do, for the entire draft. So, lets say a trade down from #8, to #20, was offered. Levy (probably in a quick conversation, but possibly by himself) decided that: 1.) Whitner wouldn't be there 2.) The next two (or three) players on their 1st round list wouldn't be there. 3) Maybe their next favorite safety wouldn't be there OR if they picked a different position (let's say DT) they didn't like the value for the draft spot, or they didn't like what it did to their plan for the draft, in the other rounds. They probably did a quick analysis of what the move down, and the additional draft picks gained, could accomplish. That can be done pretty fast, by a couple of people, if the plan going in is good enough.

 

As far as responsibility goes, it isn't really that hard to know who brought in the good info, ran their end of things properly and/or in the case of the GM (when their was one) got the best out of the team, and made the best last-minute decisions. Accountability isn't that big of a problem for those inside...it's a problem for us fans, as we don't know who to bash.

 

You are also correct, IMO, when you say that the system has some flaws (all systems have some flaws). And the "instant decision" probably suffers the most, here. Fortunately, there are few "instant decisions" when it comes to players (draft or FA)...all of these decisions have at least a minute or two to make, in almost all situations. But, there is probably a trade that doesn't get made, from time-to-time, in this system, as time runs out on the process. I'm guessing that is very rare, though.

 

As for who wanted Cutler, I imagine that decision was made before the team hit the war room. They were likely looking at Willis, Whitner and a couple of other players. I don't think Cutler was ever a consideration for them, going into the draft. Modrak can like a LOT of guys. He might really push Cutler's skills at the meetings. But, the team probably decides that they aren't going to use a first round pick on a QB, when they have a young QB with skills, who they haven't decided to replace yet...plus, the team had gaping holes, elsewhere. (Of course, this discussion has nothing to do with a team approach, it has to do with you agreeing, or disagreeing, with the decision they made.) But, in any scenario, Levy isn't about to pick a player they have already decided they weren't going to pick.