todd Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Good post Alpha! We all wanted more out of free agency but looking back it wasn't really the year to get good through it. It's not over and a few decent players reamain available but I'm thinking the team will benefit much more from a solid draft. I wouldn't rule out a trade either. The FO is fully aware it needs to generate some excitement for next year. Generate excitement? How, by having a farting contest? Only a fuggin moron would think a draft pick would make an impact in their first year. You can't depend on that. And you can only realistically expect to replace ONE starter with your entire draft class, and the Bills need new starters on O-line, d-line, WR, TE, and LB. Are they even close to addressing that fact? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 Yes, they do. He gives the Bills a barely adequate backup at G & C. And that is what they were looking for. how are you so sure? What is it about Hangartner that you know of that makes you say this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Yep, it is all a two-way street. If they were serious about stuff, maybe they should have offered more for Taylor. Maybe they should have overpaid for Coles! Maybe they should have attempted a trade. Maybe they should have done something - ANYTHING about the sorry state of their DEs. One guy coming off an injury and the rest behind him just SUCK. Maybe they should have gone after a few of the TEs that were on the market. Maybe they should have added another DT to the rotation. Look, I've made excuses for the front office for YEARS, much the same as you are right now. I have railed against the complainers and idiots around here who suggest we go after every FA available (like the morons suggesting we get Owens), but enough is enough. This isn't the offseason for a steady and measured strategy when it comes to trades and FA signings. The Bills are in deep shite, and need to start acting like they understand that. I don't think they do. I'm telling you, if the Bills or anyone else honestly thinks they can get better performance by signing a LB and a WR and drafting a TE in the first round, they are idiots. If they think they can fix the O-line by getting a slightly better center and a marginally better LG, then they are idiots. If they think that Trent Edwards will do better by getting a marginally better WR, they are fools. There's no reason underachievers like Kelsay and Denney should even be on the roster any more, but they are. Makes me want to vomit. You didnt answer my question...you keep spouting off about positions we need players for, but you have not named one player that was a REAL option we could after... DE? Who? This was probably the weakest positon in FA, especially once Peppers was franchised. In fact, the only other real good DE in free agency is Berry, and he is still available, just old. Canty was over paid in NY, so he never left after his visit, not to mention he gets to play for a SB contender in a huge market... TE? Again, who? Another weak position with no one out there available with any more upsided than our young guys. I mean Daniels was never going to happen, it will take a 1st and 3rd. Winslow was a a head case, and we have enough internal problems right now, and he was traded. Not to mention he is more fragile than our own Edwards. Adding to this, the draft is deep with good TE's, so no need to bring in a subpar FA TE prior to the draft. DT? What DT? Haynesworth? I mean who is available that we should have added? Not to mention, DT isnt our biggest need with a stud in Stroud complimented by some solid but not great players... Taylor? You are uspet we didnt over pay for an aging RB that would be slated to be our #3 RB most the season who isnt even the best FA RB available? I mean, it was a no brainer for him...play for a team that was 16-0 before Brady was hurt where he likely starts, or come to a team who hasnt made the playoffs in 9 years where he is likely the 3rd RB most the season...come on now... Coles? Again, you want us to overpay for this guy? Cincy over paid him, and he has a proven QB in Palmer there, so it would took even MORE money for us to lure him back here...no way should we have done that... So rather than rant and rave with vague statements, please provide me someone out there we should have gotten that was a player we had a shot at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Yes, Defensive end, tight end and defensive tackle might have been the weakest positions in free agency. There were no good tight ends available. None. Haynesworth was the only difference maker at DT. And unless you thought it was a good idea to pay Chris Canty or Antonio Smith $7 million per year, there were no good options at DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 You guys are assuming that Birk or Saturday are better than Hangartner. Perhaps the Bills' FO thought Hangartner was better; he certainly is a lot younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 I'd have to agree with Alpha, this is a weak year to obtain top tier FA's. There really hasn't been to many good options. I would think that the best general approach for this year's FA crop is to hopefully find quality 2nd and 3rd tier FA's. We are where we are. I know people are desperate for us to have some sort of excitement. Understandably so. But like I said, We are where we are, and the Bills as an organization has to try to take the best approach possible at building this organization. This year's FA crop isn't the most impressive. Hopefully we can fill a couple holes with some quality players, and find a few gems in the draft, and who knows, maybe we can have a good year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Yes, Defensive end, tight end and defensive tackle might have been the weakest positions in free agency. There were no good tight ends available. None. Haynesworth was the only difference maker at DT. And unless you thought it was a good idea to pay Chris Canty or Antonio Smith $7 million per year, there were no good options at DE. Well, that's the market. If you want the players, you've gotta pay them. I guess the alternative is continued mediocrity. Is that acceptable to you? Do you have another solution that will get them to at least 10 wins this year? Their current path won't do it. Believe me, I hear where you are coming from. Paying these players that kind of cash is tough. But how the hell do the Bills win next year if they don't? How do they get the starters and the depth to compete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Seems as if you don't have a better solution, either. If you're cool with the continued suckitude, just admit it. So we either overpay for players like everyone else, or refuse and continue to lose. Sounds like fun! You didnt answer my question...you keep spouting off about positions we need players for, but you have not named one player that was a REAL option we could after... DE? Who? This was probably the weakest positon in FA, especially once Peppers was franchised. In fact, the only other real good DE in free agency is Berry, and he is still available, just old. Canty was over paid in NY, so he never left after his visit, not to mention he gets to play for a SB contender in a huge market... TE? Again, who? Another weak position with no one out there available with any more upsided than our young guys. I mean Daniels was never going to happen, it will take a 1st and 3rd. Winslow was a a head case, and we have enough internal problems right now, and he was traded. Not to mention he is more fragile than our own Edwards. Adding to this, the draft is deep with good TE's, so no need to bring in a subpar FA TE prior to the draft. DT? What DT? Haynesworth? I mean who is available that we should have added? Not to mention, DT isnt our biggest need with a stud in Stroud complimented by some solid but not great players... Taylor? You are uspet we didnt over pay for an aging RB that would be slated to be our #3 RB most the season who isnt even the best FA RB available? I mean, it was a no brainer for him...play for a team that was 16-0 before Brady was hurt where he likely starts, or come to a team who hasnt made the playoffs in 9 years where he is likely the 3rd RB most the season...come on now... Coles? Again, you want us to overpay for this guy? Cincy over paid him, and he has a proven QB in Palmer there, so it would took even MORE money for us to lure him back here...no way should we have done that... So rather than rant and rave with vague statements, please provide me someone out there we should have gotten that was a player we had a shot at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Seems as if you don't have a better solution, either. If you're cool with the continued suckitude, just admit it. So we either overpay for players like everyone else, or refuse and continue to lose. Sounds like fun! Again, you still havent named one player we should have obtained and had a shot at...just name one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I'd have to agree with Alpha, this is a weak year to obtain top tier FA's. There really hasn't been to many good options. I would think that the best general approach for this year's FA crop is to hopefully find quality 2nd and 3rd tier FA's. We are where we are. I know people are desperate for us to have some sort of excitement. Understandably so. But like I said, We are where we are, and the Bills as an organization has to try to take the best approach possible at building this organization. This year's FA crop isn't the most impressive. Hopefully we can fill a couple holes with some quality players, and find a few gems in the draft, and who knows, maybe we can have a good year. Holy crap, we agree on something...lmao...sky must be falling...hahahaha...maybe thats a sign the Bills will win the SB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Seems as if you don't have a better solution, either. If you're cool with the continued suckitude, just admit it. So we either overpay for players like everyone else, or refuse and continue to lose. Sounds like fun! Overpaying for players like everyone else is a flat out incorrect statement. The best teams today don't overpay for talent too often and when they do, it's because they know what they have. Is it possible that their is no solution for a complete turnaround in this offseason for the Bills? The team needs an out of this world draft class. That is the only way to get good in the NFL. The free agents are just the icing on the cake. Teams don't like letting studs hit the market and when they do you better be prepared to back the truck up. IMO Haynesworth was the only true difference maker in FA this year. I guess Housh is a nice player too, but not gamechanging on his own. Some fans need to seperate their dissapointment from their ability to use common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonster Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I'd have to agree with Alpha, this is a weak year to obtain top tier FA's. There really hasn't been to many good options. I would think that the best general approach for this year's FA crop is to hopefully find quality 2nd and 3rd tier FA's. We are where we are. I know people are desperate for us to have some sort of excitement. Understandably so. But like I said, We are where we are, and the Bills as an organization has to try to take the best approach possible at building this organization. This year's FA crop isn't the most impressive. Hopefully we can fill a couple holes with some quality players, and find a few gems in the draft, and who knows, maybe we can have a good year. Dennis? Dennis Green, is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Well, that's the market. If you want the players, you've gotta pay them. I guess the alternative is continued mediocrity. Is that acceptable to you? Do you have another solution that will get them to at least 10 wins this year? Their current path won't do it. Believe me, I hear where you are coming from. Paying these players that kind of cash is tough. But how the hell do the Bills win next year if they don't? How do they get the starters and the depth to compete? First off I agree with you in that we do have to upgrade our front line players. Great teams have great players. But name me an expensive free agent that Pittsburgh has ever signed? You can overpay for talent through free agency of get it through the draft. Unfortunately for the Bills they have not drafted well enough to build an elite team. They need several upgrades. As for free agency I would overpay for one free agent if I thought the Bills were one player from being over the hump, but they're not. I thought Mark Gaughan's chat today really reinforced the way I feel about team building in our particular situation. 1-53 is one of the concepts. He mentioned how Lamont Jordan was a valuable pickup for the Patriots last year after they lost Green-Ellis, Maroney, etc. They still had Jordan and Sammy Morris. We have Xavier Omon. I like that we're talking to running backs. Hopefully we sign one. With the 1-53 theory he also mentioned how if we had a better backup than J.P. that we might have won two more games. Fitzpatrick won the last 3 games he played for the Bengals. He's an upgrade. With the 1-53 theory he mentioned how good teams go after guys like Spencer Johnson who are hungry and overachieve. This was in the context of making small but important roster improvements (like hopefully linebacker). Not only did we lack enough elite players last year but also, our roster was not solid. We do need to upgrade wide receiver and guard and pass rusher minimally. The Bills have several holes to fill and it's doubtful they can do that in one offseason. That's why I think it's better to not overpay in free agency. I think it would be a panic move. Even though we (Bills in Bflo, Ralph's mortality) are running out of time, I still think they have to avoid making impulse decisions and decisions to appease the fan base. Even though the Bills are in crisis mode the front office has to avoid allowing the hysteria to affect sound decision making. Well that's my answer Todd. Just an opinion and I've been wrong many times before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el Tigre Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 It's still possible to get help from FA's this year. If we end up signing Simmons,either June or Keiaho and pick up one of the WRs that are avaliable (Holt,Galloway,Harrison,Owens,etc.) it would significantly help the team. That would give us upgrades at C,G,LB and WR and we still would have the draft coming up. That would be a pretty good offseason IMO. Free agency is playing out a little differently this year. Teams seem to be laying back and not overpaying as much for the mid-level guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Relax dude. smoke a spliff, take a zanex, listen to some nature noises, something. Just chill This is why you rub people the wrong way, you are very combative. You shouldn't let other people that you have no control of constantly disgust or bother you becuase it is always going to happen and you can't do anything about it. People have their opinions, and you have yours. He didn't rub me the wrong way, he just spoke the truth. People are all over this board complaining that the FO isn't doing enough, saying we should have overpaid for Coles (who's extremely overrated) or made a run at Haynesworth (that must be some sort of joke, I have to assume). Everyone thinks they're a GM. Well people need to relax. The FO is actually handling this offseason very well. Billy Beane of the Oakland A's says "we have to be contrarian in everything we do." Not sure if Buffalo can manage that, but they can do their part by not throwing tons of $$ at mediocre FA's (i.e. Kelsay, Dockery) and getting us back into salary cap hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Here's another thing. The Panthers are in salary cap hell with the Julius Peppers situation (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=25331), and they want to shop him. Would you rather we be in the running by packaging a few draft picks or have spent a fortune on some mediocre free agent like L. Coles? Exactly. There's a long way to go in free agency, people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Again, you still havent named one player we should have obtained and had a shot at...just name one... Canty - should have at least tried. The Jets TE that went to NE. Not only that, there have been plenty of rumors about players available for trade. There's three, which I'm sure you'll attempt to refute just because it would make you wrong if you didn't. My point is that it is clear the Bills aren't seriously attacking FA or trades. If you can't see that, I don't know how the obvious eludes you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Canty - should have at least tried.The Jets TE that went to NE. Not only that, there have been plenty of rumors about players available for trade. There's three, which I'm sure you'll attempt to refute just because it would make you wrong if you didn't. My point is that it is clear the Bills aren't seriously attacking FA or trades. If you can't see that, I don't know how the obvious eludes you. Canty was grossly over paid...so should we have offered more to get him to choose over a valid SB contender in a huge market? And because he signs elsewhere doesnt mean we didnt call and inquire... And the TE you are referring to is Baker who was productive the Jets used a number one pick on Keller last year who clearly showed more playmaking ability. Again though, how do you know we didnt call his agents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 So we're having a terrible free agency because we didn't sign Baker and Canty? Seriously? I don't buy that. I would have liked to have made a run at Baker, though. I'm hoping Ben Watson becomes available with that signing or we make a run at L.J. Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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