Jabari signs with Saints

[Dawgg]

That begs the question though, when is it time and who is worth keeping at an average or slightly above average market value (we can take blowing the entire salary structure for 1 player off the table as that is clearly not a team building approach) for a struggling franchise that hasn't had success in a decade? Where would you start investing? If not with the guys that you've developed and who have played extremely well in your system, then where?

 

Good question. The Bills should have paid up for Nate Clements. If they offered him a long-term contract a year in advance, they could have had him locked up. Instead, they let him walk for nothing in return. People can trash Nate all they want, but he was and still is an upper echelon cornerback. Another example is Jason Peters. Bills fans love to talk about how much he sucked last year, but he is a top-flight tackle. The Bills need to pay him like one and will probably have to overpay slightly in order to keep him. Those are players you slightly overpay for.

 

The Jabari Greers, Kelsays, Chambers, Denneys of the world are good, but far from upper echelon players... those guys you keep only if the price is right. If the price isn't right, you draft of sign their replacements. Time after time, we watch New England and Pittsburgh do this. They pay big money to keep those top-notch players and let the JAGs walk. Allowing Greer to move on and replacing him with a proven vet like Drayton Florence is a good move. Florence has a bigtime chip on his shoulder and the team is banking on Leodis taking the next step.

[C.Biscuit97]

Good question. The Bills should have paid up for Nate Clements. If they offered him a long-term contract a year in advance, they could have had him locked up. Instead, they let him walk for nothing in return. People can trash Nate all they want, but he was and still is an upper echelon cornerback. Another example is Jason Peters. Bills fans love to talk about how much he sucked last year, but he is a top-flight tackle. The Bills need to pay him like one and will probably have to overpay slightly in order to keep him. Those are players you slightly overpay for.

 

The Jabari Greers, Kelsays, Chambers, Denneys of the world are good, but far from upper echelon players... those guys you keep only if the price is right. If the price isn't right, you draft of sign their replacements. Time after time, we watch New England and Pittsburgh do this. They pay big money to keep those top-notch players and let the JAGs walk. Allowing Greer to move on and replacing him with a proven vet like Drayton Florence is a good move. Florence has a bigtime chip on his shoulder and the team is banking on Leodis taking the next step.

 

 

Agreed for the most paid. It's stupid to jerk around with Peters. Be happy you lucked out with him and pay him.

 

As for Nate, I was one of his biggest fans. But he really hasn't improved the 49ers defense that much. I would much rather have our group of corners now, than Nc and a bunch of scrubs.

 

And I know you hate Marv, but he did have the right idea. He went after o-line in free agency and moved up to get a DT (who did show signs of becoming a player in 2007 but then fell aparat last season). He just picked the wrong guys.

 

Personally, I'm pretty happy with the team now. They have msot of the skill players they need. There is very little doubt that this should be a big person draft. Trust me, if a corner or receiver is choose before the 4th round, I will go to One bills Drive and hand in my season tickets.

[Dawgg]

I would much rather have our group of corners now, than Nc and a bunch of scrubs.

That's not the choice we were confronted with. Letting Nate go set the franchise back and forced the team to use a first-rounder on another cornerback. Imagine if the team re-signed Nate and instead used the #11 pick on Ryan Clady or Branden Albert? Would the overall team be better off? Absolutely.

 

No doubt Nate himself hasn't improved the 49ers that much... but he's still an upper echelon corner. He had a so-so season last year, but in his first season on the 49ers, he was lights out. Those are the types of players you build around, you don't let them walk for nothing in return.

 

And I know you hate Marv, but he did have the right idea. He went after o-line in free agency and moved up to get a DT (who did show signs of becoming a player in 2007 but then fell aparat last season). He just picked the wrong guys.

It was clear that McCargo was a bust waiting to happen. There's no excuse for a pick like that and whoever was responsible for the pick should be fired. There's no "It's the thought that counts" in professional football. Marv let Nate Clements walk and gave Derrick Dockery a $60+ million deal. Think that money would have been better spent with Nate? I think so.

 

Personally, I'm pretty happy with the team now. They have msot of the skill players they need.

I like the "moves" they've made (except signing Fitzpatrick -- he blows). But the team is still fundamentally flawed.

[Leonidas]

That's not the choice we were confronted with. Letting Nate go set the franchise back and forced the team to use a first-rounder on another cornerback. Imagine if the team re-signed Nate and instead used the #11 pick on Ryan Clady or Branden Albert? Would the overall team be better off? Absolutely.

 

No doubt Nate himself hasn't improved the 49ers that much... but he's still an upper echelon corner. He had a so-so season last year, but in his first season on the 49ers, he was lights out. Those are the types of players you build around, you don't let them walk for nothing in return.

 

 

It was clear that McCargo was a bust waiting to happen. There's no excuse for a pick like that and whoever was responsible for the pick should be fired. There's no "It's the thought that counts" in professional football. Marv let Nate Clements walk and gave Derrick Dockery a $60+ million deal. Think that money would have been better spent with Nate? I think so.

 

 

I like the "moves" they've made (except signing Fitzpatrick -- he blows). But the team is still fundamentally flawed.

 

They screwed up the Clements thing. No way was he worth 8/$80M, but we should have gotten SOMETHING back for him. From what I heard, he refused to sign the one-year franchise tender and instead made the FO give him a one-year deal for the amount with it written in that they would not franchise him again. I can't believe the FO fell for that. I'm hoping that was a Marv mistake that will not be repeated after his absence.

 

And the team is fundamentally flawed. Look no further than the head coach.

[Dawgg]

They screwed up the Clements thing. No way was he worth 8/$80M, but we should have gotten SOMETHING back for him. From what I heard, he refused to sign the one-year franchise tender and instead made the FO give him a one-year deal for the amount with it written in that they would not franchise him again. I can't believe the FO fell for that. I'm hoping that was a Marv mistake that will not be repeated after his absence.

 

And the team is fundamentally flawed. Look no further than the head coach.

 

They should have extended him. Had they approached it seriously a year before he hit the market, it would have been cheaper than 8yrs/$80M. Also the numbers for that contract are misleading and it's backloaded with money Nate will never see. Considering what they spent on a fatas$ like Dockery, Nate was well within the budget and should have been retained.

[C.Biscuit97]

They should have extended him. Had they approached it seriously a year before he hit the market, it would have been cheaper than 8yrs/$80M. Also the numbers for that contract are misleading and it's backloaded with money Nate will never see. Considering what they spent on a fatas$ like Dockery, Nate was well within the budget and should have been retained.

 

 

Obviously, Clements is a much better player than Dockery. But I'd rather overpay for an o-lineman than cornerback. For as bas as DD was, we still had a pro bowl rb and set a franchise record for fewest sacks in a season.

 

And as much as it sucks to see Greer go, if McKelvin continues his development, we have a better group than we did and saved money.

[Fan in Chicago]

And as much as it sucks to see Greer go, if McKelvin continues his development, we have a better group than we did and saved money.

 

That 'if' is what I am worried about. The other side of that 'if' is if McK under-performs at the CB position, we would have saved money to increase risk at a position where we did not need to. I have said this in other threads also - at some point we need to spend the money we have. If not on a couple of top flight FAs, then at least on the above average ones - preferably ones we already have (Peters, Crowell as examples)

[34-78-83]

OK, I feel much better now.

And Florence is a sh------- pick up as a nickel because he's too long and too loose to play in the slot so they have to kick him outside and move McKelvin inside which creates unnecessary confusion and predictability in the defense.

 

 

Horseshlt; statistics are as useless for corners as they are DT's. Greer has spent teh last 4 years stuck to people like a wet stamp and McGee is little better than a victim in short area coverage.

 

I don't think I've ever disagreed with you Simon, lol but there is always a 1st time.

1- Florence in the slot was very very good in SD. Mind you he had a fab front 7 in front of him and I understand that. As long as he is kept there on our team I think he's got a chance to do real well.

2- A like Greer a whole lot but I think McGee when healthy is a slightly better overall corner, especially against the big guys. In fact I feel like his good hand technique he uses against those types of guys was something he taught/passed along to Greer as I saw him doing much of the same as he developed. Mcgee has the better break on the ball though. McGee took a long time to become a solid corner here, but eventually IMO he got there. He does need to stay healthy though...

 

[Simon]

Why, you no good rotten s.o.b! - )

I don't think Florence is a bad player but I think his weaknesses are similar to McGee's in that he doesn't chop well, he doesn't bear down well, he loses focus sometimes, he gets turned around a lot, etc. And like McGee I think he's a bad fit in the slot, particularly in this defense that isn't going to be producing quick pressure anytime soon.

That ability to play with such fantastic focus and great technique on every snap is what I think we're really going to miss from Jabari. Not to mention the multiple times he's bailed out a struggling Bills team with 4thqrtr pick'n'go's that completely changed the complexion of the game. That knack from a guy who's never a liability is worth its weight in platinum. I like what we've seen from McKelvin and I think he's going to be a fine starter sooner rather than later, but I'd have much rather seen the Bills pay Greer his market value and then let McGee walk when somebody pays him way more than he's worth to the Bills.

Instead I bet we watch next offseason while somebody gives McGee a boatload of money and then spend a high pick on another corner to replace him; I wouldn't even be that stunned if we did it this year in anticipation of Terrence leaving.

 

I don't think I've ever disagreed with you Simon, lol but there is always a 1st time.

1- Florence in the slot was very very good in SD. Mind you he had a fab front 7 in front of him and I understand that. As long as he is kept there on our team I think he's got a chance to do real well.

2- A like Greer a whole lot but I think McGee when healthy is a slightly better overall corner, especially against the big guys. In fact I feel like his good hand technique he uses against those types of guys was something he taught/passed along to Greer as I saw him doing much of the same as he developed. Mcgee has the better break on the ball though. McGee took a long time to become a solid corner here, but eventually IMO he got there. He does need to stay healthy though...

 

[ganesh]

He signed for just under 6 mil a year. We let him go over that? I'm sorry, but we should have kept him for that.

 

 

We need to pay for talent on DL and DT not for Cornerbacks who are going to play 10 yards away from the receiver on this messed up defense.

[Bill from NYC]

Agreed for the most paid. It's stupid to jerk around with Peters. Be happy you lucked out with him and pay him.

 

As for Nate, I was one of his biggest fans. But he really hasn't improved the 49ers defense that much. I would much rather have our group of corners now, than Nc and a bunch of scrubs.

 

And I know you hate Marv, but he did have the right idea. He went after o-line in free agency and moved up to get a DT (who did show signs of becoming a player in 2007 but then fell aparat last season). He just picked the wrong guys.

 

Personally, I'm pretty happy with the team now. They have msot of the skill players they need. There is very little doubt that this should be a big person draft. Trust me, if a corner or receiver is choose before the 4th round, I will go to One bills Drive and hand in my season tickets.

 

Start warming up your car in about 6 weeks. Look for a corner and a safety to be selected by Jauron, the comatose boob.

[Magox]

Start warming up your car in about 6 weeks. Look for a corner and a safety to be selected by Jauron, the comatose boob.

I don't think it would be a bad idea to draft a safety or db in the later rounds.

 

Florence is signed to a two year contract, and we may lose Mcgee. Ko Simpson looks like he won't be a contributor, so safety is a spot that we may need to upgrade. I'm not defending past decisions, I'm just looking forward.

[Bill from NYC]

I don't think it would be a bad idea to draft a safety or db in the later rounds.

 

Agreed, but I can't see Dumbo waiting that long. He plays not to lose. Dick Levy wants his best draft picks standing by the goal line waiting to tackle opponents on our 1.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Instead I bet we watch next offseason while somebody gives McGee a boatload of money and then spend a high pick on another corner to replace him; I wouldn't even be that stunned if we did it this year in anticipation of Terrence leaving.

As Jenkins might be there at #11, it wouldn't surprise me at all.