LGB Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 If the Bills were to sign Coles, how much money would be tied up at WR when there are more pressing needs at DE, OL?!? Wasn't Hardy suppose to be the WR help Evans needed? Josh Reed (5' 10") had a pretty good year and if Hardy (6' 5") and Johnson (6' 2") develop, why would the Bills pay big dollars for the 5' 11" Coles? But then again, look how much money the Bills have thrown at Kelsey and have received nothing in return. He has got to be the highest paid and least productive player on the Bill's squad. So is it any wonder that this staff is forever destined to be 7-9 with sack superstars like Kelsey, Denney and McCargo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInSouthBuffalo Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Wasn't Hardy suppose to be the WR help Evans needed? Josh Reed (5' 10") had a pretty good year and if Hardy (6' 5") and Johnson (6' 2") develop, why would the Bills pay big dollars for the 5' 11" Coles? I think this has been addressed but................ Yes, Hardy was supposed to be the guy. He did NOT have a good season---very unimpressive. Which I must say I almost expect from a rookie unless you get real lucky. Now he's rehabbing an injury and I think its been said that he won't be ready for OTA's. Reed is a #3 which is fine, Johnson is a wild-card. The problem I have is that if Evans gets hurt, the Bills are SCREWED as it now stands. That's my #1 reason why we need a guy like Coles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 If the Bills were to sign Coles, how much money would be tied up at WR when there are more pressing needs at DE, OL?!? Wasn't Hardy suppose to be the WR help Evans needed? Josh Reed (5' 10") had a pretty good year and if Hardy (6' 5") and Johnson (6' 2") develop, why would the Bills pay big dollars for the 5' 11" Coles? But then again, look how much money the Bills have thrown at Kelsey and have received nothing in return. He has got to be the highest paid and least productive player on the Bill's squad. So is it any wonder that this staff is forever destined to be 7-9 with sack superstars like Kelsey, Denney and McCargo? Hardy was indeed drafted to fill the need for a second WR but he tore his ACL and his return to action from such an injury (it occurred in December) will be severely impacted. He may be available for Training Camp but you don't get back fully from this type of injury in much less than 1 year. Also, he simply was not a big factor when healthy last year. This is not surprising for a rookie but Coles represents an immediate upgrade - at least so the thinking goes. He caught 70 passes last year with 7 TDs with 850 yards receiving. Although he YPC has dropped a bit in the past few years, as a #2 receiver on the Bills he would definitely take some pressure off of Lee. I agree with you about Reed - he played great last year. Johnson is a big unknown in my opinion. I am FOR the siging of Coles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Crikey, http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/billsnfl/story/585785.html • “In our division they know who our big threat is,” he said. “It’s Lee Evans. So what are they going to do? They’re going to take him away. They’re going to make you beat them in other ways. We have to improve in the pass game, no doubt about it.” “When you double Lee, he’s your big home run threat. You’ve got to find someone else who’s going to get deep. We don’t really have that guy. We had James [Hardy] but he was limited in what he did, being a rookie. We have to find other ways to get the ball down the field.” • At the same time, Schonert said he tried to call deeper routes more times than people realized. “We call them and you get sacked. You get beat right away. There were times when we had Lee Evans for a touchdown. We had Hardy for a touchdown the very first play of the first Jets game, but we had to dump it off to Marshawn real quick because of protection.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 The Bills are what, $30 million under the cap? It really doesn't matter all that much if they sign Coles. I'd also point out that the current group of guys quite clearly aren't getting the job done. The Bills can't just sit back and hope for their best. They've been needing to address their passing attack, including the 2nd WR spot, for years, arguably as far back as the Peerless Price trade after the '02 season. They've stunk ever since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mopreme Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Bills need a possession type receiver who knows how to get open and work the middle. I think coles fits the mold. At the right price he would be a great addition and provide trent with great weapon. He is 2 receiver who could adjust to being the 1 receiver if evans got hurt. Hopefully, hardy can get his act together down the road. Remember, it took moulds 3 seasons or so to develope into a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsNYC Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 If the Bills were smart, they would bring in a guy like Coles or Toomer for1-2 years and make him the clear #2. In that time, have Hardy focus on being a red zone threat only. He should practice red zone patterns so much he has them down pat, and not even see the field unless we're in the red zone. After a year of perfecting this, let him expand his role next year. The Bills would get a solid red zone threat with his height for this season which would allow Hardy to get his confidence up and study under the #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Assuming Hardy sustained a "typical" ACL tear and that he has the "typical" rehab regimen don't look for him to conrtibute much, if anything, this year. If his injury is of a more severe nature he simply may not be the same player he was before the injury. Ad the fact that he's still on a very steep learning curve regardless of his injury status, it's no wonder the Bills aren't counting on him this year. All indications are that he isn't in the Bills' short term plans and it wouldn't surprise me if he's placed on injury waivers at some point in the future, depending on his rehab and prognosis. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 The problem I have is that if Evans gets hurt, the Bills are SCREWED as it now stands. That's my #1 reason why we need a guy like Coles. Good post ... agreed when reed went down last year the Bills were shown to be very thin at WR. Johnson came on late in the season so there appears to be upside with him. Not fair to call Hardy a bust yet but ok to say he remains an unknown or unproven player at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Good post ... agreed when reed went down last year the Bills were shown to be very thin at WR. Johnson came on late in the season so there appears to be upside with him. Not fair to call Hardy a bust yet but ok to say he remains an unknown or unproven player at this point. The odds are that Hardy is not going to contribute this year much if at all with the serious knee injury he had. Even if he does, he didn't progress much last year, and at WR it is one of if not the toughest position to adjust to the NFL from college. That is a big factor in why the Bills have been struggling over that last decade or so, they have been relying on too many players with potential and promise and not enough of experience and proven ability. I think this team really needs a Coles or a similar receiver, and if and when they get him, Evans numbers will drastically increase, and if all stays healthy, Evans will probably be a Pro Bowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Byrd Man Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 The odds are that Hardy is not going to contribute this year much if at all with the serious knee injury he had. Even if he does, he didn't progress much last year, and at WR it is one of if not the toughest position to adjust to the NFL from college. That is a big factor in why the Bills have been struggling over that last decade or so, they have been relying on too many players with potential and promise and not enough of experience and proven ability. I think this team really needs a Coles or a similar receiver, and if and when they get him, Evans numbers will drastically increase, and if all stays healthy, Evans will probably be a Pro Bowler. I totally agree. It would be great if Hardy can come in and contribute but that i s very unlikely. Johnson shows some promise but he to is inexperienced. I think we will be in good shape for the future but we need a stop gap for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I'd also point out that the current group of guys quite clearly aren't getting the job done. The Bills can't just sit back and hope for their best. They've been needing to address their passing attack, including the 2nd WR spot, for years, arguably as far back as the Peerless Price trade after the '02 season. They've stunk ever since then. Spot on. Simply put, the Bills do not have a qualified #2 WR ready to go in September. Johnson and Hardy may get there, but not this year. Reed and Roscoe are #3 guys. This is an obvious need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I think this has been addressed but................ Yes, Hardy was supposed to be the guy. He did NOT have a good season---very unimpressive. Which I must say I almost expect from a rookie unless you get real lucky. Now he's rehabbing an injury and I think its been said that he won't be ready for OTA's. Reed is a #3 which is fine, Johnson is a wild-card. The problem I have is that if Evans gets hurt, the Bills are SCREWED as it now stands. That's my #1 reason why we need a guy like Coles. Hrady, even by rookie standards, had an "eh' season......and then got hurt. If Evans gets hurt the Bills are screwed? They were screwed just about all of last season by the double coverage on Evans, which left them with Royal (ugh) and Reed for check downs and 3rd and 6's. Without a legitimate deep threat WR to pull the double coverage off of Evans, the exact same thing is going to happen all season long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGB Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 Hrady, even by rookie standards, had an "eh' season......and then got hurt. If Evans gets hurt the Bills are screwed? Okay, if Evans goes down, that would be a loss, but the same can be said for other postitions (e.g. Edwards, Schobel etc.). What is hard to accept is that the Bills would seem to have to offer over 6 million dollars a year for Coles. Doesn't that bother anyone? Just because he is available, doesn't make him worth that much money when the Bills have other pressing needs at DE and OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26TrapDraw Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 If the Bills were to sign Coles, how much money would be tied up at WR when there are more pressing needs at DE, OL?!? Wasn't Hardy suppose to be the WR help Evans needed? Josh Reed (5' 10") had a pretty good year and if Hardy (6' 5") and Johnson (6' 2") develop, why would the Bills pay big dollars for the 5' 11" Coles? But then again, look how much money the Bills have thrown at Kelsey and have received nothing in return. He has got to be the highest paid and least productive player on the Bill's squad. So is it any wonder that this staff is forever destined to be 7-9 with sack superstars like Kelsey, Denney and McCargo? I'll put this as simply as I can: If Evans and Coles are on the field at the same time and a defense doubles Evans, Coles still has the abilty to torch a defender one on one. For that reason and that reason alone you sign him. Is there any other receivers on our roster that you can definitively say that about? See thats my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Okay, if Evans goes down, that would be a loss, but the same can be said for other postitions (e.g. Edwards, Schobel etc.). What is hard to accept is that the Bills would seem to have to offer over 6 million dollars a year for Coles. Doesn't that bother anyone? Just because he is available, doesn't make him worth that much money when the Bills have other pressing needs at DE and OT. Certainly the Bills have other needs. But as it stands now, just like all of last season, without someone to take the double coverage off of Evans, the Bills have no deep passing game, whatsoever. None. Lee Evans has a base salary of $9m in 2009. Plugging in a good, deep threat WR at 2/3 of his salary doesn't seem that exorbitant to me. Coles may not necessarily be the answer, but the Bills had better get a legitimate WR, not fricking Howie Feltersnatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Buffalo has made Edwards the starter and needs excellent play from him this year for any hope to make the playoffs. At the same time, outside of Evans there is no one in the passing game to keep defenses honest. Reed, Parrish, St. Johnson, Hardy, and Jenkins are not dependable complementary receivers. Not yet at least, although Reed could play the slot quite well, but remains only a short yardage type and out of position as a #2. The TE's consist of Fine, Schouman, and Stupar who have a combined 4 years of NFL experience. With injury time, it's much less. Lynch and Jackson are fine out of the backfield, but depending on RB's in the passing game without a decent WR corps is tantamount to planning failure. I'm not saying Coles will mean Edwards throws for 4000 yards and 30 TD's, but leaving him with those options is setting him up for failure. Drafting a WR last year with raw speed, questionable hands, and little ability to run a NFL route tree was laughable. It looks like nothing has changed. Hardy not only must overcome his injury, but learn to do the things he couldn't do last season. Doing it while rehabbing isn't going to happen anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGB Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 Buffalo has made Edwards the starter and needs excellent play from him this year for any hope to make the playoffs. At the same time, outside of Evans there is no one in the passing game to keep defenses honest. Reed, Parrish, St. Johnson, Hardy, and Jenkins are not dependable complementary receivers. Not yet at least, although Reed could play the slot quite well, but remains only a short yardage type and out of position as a #2. The TE's consist of Fine, Schouman, and Stupar who have a combined 4 years of NFL experience. With injury time, it's much less. Lynch and Jackson are fine out of the backfield, but depending on RB's in the passing game without a decent WR corps is tantamount to planning failure. I'm not saying Coles will mean Edwards throws for 4000 yards and 30 TD's, but leaving him with those options is setting him up for failure. Drafting a WR last year with raw speed, questionable hands, and little ability to run a NFL route tree was laughable. It looks like nothing has changed. Hardy not only must overcome his injury, but learn to do the things he couldn't do last season. Doing it while rehabbing isn't going to happen anytime soon. Seeing Coles going to the Bengals affirms that the price was too high for the Bills. Here is hoping that St. Johnson and Jenkins have a great camp and hit the ground running in the fall. Hopefully Hardy will be back sooner rather than later and can contribute. With Royal gone, it would be nice to pickup a pass-catching TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Seeing Coles going to the Bengals affirms that the price was too high for the Bills. Here is hoping that St. Johnson and Jenkins have a great camp and hit the ground running in the fall. Hopefully Hardy will be back sooner rather than later and can contribute. With Royal gone, it would be nice to pickup a pass-catching TE. The Bengals panicked and massively overpaid for Coles. Certainly it is possible Coles will have a 1000 yard and 10 TD season but WR SELDOM have great seasons with a new QB. It takes time . The only massive value he had was with the Fish - fortunately he did not go there. Now, could he have helped the Bills? I think so but not at 7 mil a year or even 6 for four years IMO. What to do? I would look at Toomer . If he can be had cheaply - why not give him a whirl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Seeing Coles going to the Bengals affirms that the price was too high for the Bills. Here is hoping that St. Johnson and Jenkins have a great camp and hit the ground running in the fall. Hopefully Hardy will be back sooner rather than later and can contribute. With Royal gone, it would be nice to pickup a pass-catching TE. The offense averaged about 18 ppg last year. The price for Coles may have been high, but the frustration from losing because the offense had issues scoring will be much worse. Who exactly is going to explode and diversify the passing game? Either way, Edwards is being set up for failure. A QB coach who highlights his association with Bill Walsh in every conversation, a HC with a 57-76 career record, issues on the OL, and one receiver to go along with several #3 and #4 type receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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