The Dean Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 I like the signing. We shouldn't see too much of a difference in production between Florence and Greer, but for a lot less money. Flo can man the nickel spot, makes some starts if (when) necessary along with giving some young guys like corner a chance to grow and develop. The gamble (albeit low level) here, is moving Leodis (not Florence) into the starting spot to replace Greer. Now, I think that move has a potentially large upside, as McKelvin is far more talented than Greer, IMO. But, if he doesn't take to the starting spot right away, then one of the three (Youboty, Florence, Corner) will have to step up and take over the spot until Leodis is ready. I agree with much of what Badol says in his last post...but, in this particular instance, I think the downside risk is minimal.
jdubs Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtz0l-PHsyQ Hopefully I'm wrong, but if this is any indication of what we're getting, then we might as well sign London Fletcher back, at least he can make a tackle after giving up 5-10 yards.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 It's the same course that got them to 7-9 three straight years. First and foremost, it is key to let good starters go so you have a glaring weakness that must be addressed, or reached for in rounds 1 & 2. But bad free agent signings are crucial to the plan too. What is the count after 3 years? Something like 16 of 18 free agents signed are gone already. Heinous! Expect more of the same with Florence and Hangartner, not good signings for different reasons. Florence retired last year, this latest contract is like a social security check for this guy. Hangartner is JAG, and his replacement will be sought next offseason. Fans are going to hate this guy. I'm literally terrified to hear the terms of his contract. If and when Coles signs, he's one and done to the tune of about $10M in 2009. I'm not trying to save Ralph's money, Coles is just clearly on the downside. In all fairness, the pickings were kinda' slim in free agency and expectations by fans were way out of line. Even some long time posters here were blindly talking about cutting players so the money could be used generically to improve other positions, as if filling holes in free agency was like a trip to Wal Mart. But the Bills are to blame too for bemoaning their lack of talent and their determination to do something about it, when they really weren't determined or in good position to aggressively rectify the situation. I mean, how is this team........so desperate for a playmaking TE.......not involved in a Kellen Winslow trade? Prima dona or not, he'd catch 100 passes from short range Trent. The answer is two-fold, they are ball-less AND their flawed approach to team building for the past 3 years has left them a forsaken destination for proven veterans. The organization needs a plan. If they can't get any help in free agency(and they've proven they can't), they need to be getting more than their share on draft day. Since they aren't going to beat the better organizations pick for pick, they really need to be stocking up on picks. Trade that first round pick, then trade it again if necessary, but come out of these drafts with 4-5 players with a chance at eventually starting instead of 2-3. If you want a Donte Whitner, don't reach for the guy. If you've got a good player who is going to leave in FA like Clements, at least franchise and trade the guy so you've got an extra draft pick. Value the quarterback position above all else, and focus on offensive line play and playmakers who accentuate the QB skills. Keep good QB's coming and don't be afraid to have too many good ones. Is any of these based on anything more than pure hatred towards the Bills? Because Florence is a former starter from a really good team that maybe a 3rd or 4th corner. And the Panthers averaged 139 yards rushing with GH. But who cares about facts? Let's just bash. Yay!
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtz0l-PHsyQ Hopefully I'm wrong, but if this is any indication of what we're getting, then we might as well sign London Fletcher back, at least he can make a tackle after giving up 5-10 yards. So you see a video of a running back running over a cornerback (one of the smallest guys on the team) and you decide he is no good? That makes sense.
jdubs Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtz0l-PHsyQHopefully I'm wrong, but if this is any indication of what we're getting, then we might as well sign London Fletcher back, at least he can make a tackle after giving up 5-10 yards. C.Biscuit97 - Notice anything?
BuffaL0L0k0 Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 So you see a video of a running back running over a cornerback (one of the smallest guys on the team) and you decide he is no good? That makes sense. I'd hate to join the pesimist HERD here, but...isn't Florence the short CB that Hardy beat on the corner for his only "jumpball'TD???
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 I'd hate to join the pesimist HERD here, but...isn't Florence the short CB that Hardy beat on the corner for his only "jumpball'TD??? That was simply a perfectly thrown ball and a GREAT catch that the greatest CB in the world couldn't have defended. Don't worry about it.
lets_go_bills Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 Good player, good deal. I would have rather had Jabari back, but he wanted too much money. I'm glad we got a comparable replacement at fair market value.
K-Gun10 Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 Surprise signing this makes ashton replacable imo with reggie corner the dimeback.
Steely Dan Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 Dude, we're 4 days into free agency.... You'd think the season was starting tomorrow. Most teams haven't signed more guys than the Bills have. FA is weak this year and a lot of guys are getting more than they deserve, a lot more. Good player, good deal. I would have rather had Jabari back, but he wanted too much money. I'm glad we got a comparable replacement at fair market value. I still wanted Jabari Back but you're right. Surprise signing this makes ashton replacable imo with reggie corner the dimeback. Ashton looks really good when he plays unfortunately he's too brittle to be counted on.
Cash Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 Great signing for depth. Now just re-sign Youboty & we'll have some decent competition for the nickel corner. Then re-sign Greer & we'll have some decent competition for the starting job. Plus, Greer should be able to help groom the CB we draft at #11. Meanwhile, we have only 2 interior O-linemen under contract, no starting TE or SLB, and have done zero to upgrade the pass rush. And the next scheduled free agent visit? Kevin Jones, a potential 3rd-string running back. Good to see the front office has its priorities in the right order.
BillsGuyInMalta Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 Great signing for depth. Now just re-sign Youboty & we'll have some decent competition for the nickel corner. Then re-sign Greer & we'll have some decent competition for the starting job. Plus, Greer should be able to help groom the CB we draft at #11. Meanwhile, we have only 2 interior O-linemen under contract, no starting TE or SLB, and have done zero to upgrade the pass rush. And the next scheduled free agent visit? Kevin Jones, a potential 3rd-string running back. Good to see the front office has its priorities in the right order. Yeah, lets ignore the fact they are bringing in 3 LBs, have already talked to Kendall Simmons and have a WR coming in later in the week. As for DE and TE, I dont see any options out there in FA that could make the team substantially better. Does anyone REALLY want to see us go after LJ Smith or Bertrand Berry? I agree with you both need upgrading, but both will come in the draft.
dave mcbride Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 Greer strikes me as a better player than Florence. Who cares about the money anyway? It's not as if the Bills are remotely close to the cap.
BuffOrange Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 It's the same course that got them to 7-9 three straight years. First and foremost, it is key to let good starters go so you have a glaring weakness that must be addressed, or reached for in rounds 1 & 2. But bad free agent signings are crucial to the plan too. What is the count after 3 years? Something like 16 of 18 free agents signed are gone already. Heinous! Expect more of the same with Florence and Hangartner, not good signings for different reasons. Florence retired last year, this latest contract is like a social security check for this guy. Hangartner is JAG, and his replacement will be sought next offseason. Fans are going to hate this guy. I'm literally terrified to hear the terms of his contract. If and when Coles signs, he's one and done to the tune of about $10M in 2009. I'm not trying to save Ralph's money, Coles is just clearly on the downside. In all fairness, the pickings were kinda' slim in free agency and expectations by fans were way out of line. Even some long time posters here were blindly talking about cutting players so the money could be used generically to improve other positions, as if filling holes in free agency was like a trip to Wal Mart. But the Bills are to blame too for bemoaning their lack of talent and their determination to do something about it, when they really weren't determined or in good position to aggressively rectify the situation. I mean, how is this team........so desperate for a playmaking TE.......not involved in a Kellen Winslow trade? Prima dona or not, he'd catch 100 passes from short range Trent. The answer is two-fold, they are ball-less AND their flawed approach to team building for the past 3 years has left them a forsaken destination for proven veterans. The organization needs a plan. If they can't get any help in free agency(and they've proven they can't), they need to be getting more than their share on draft day. Since they aren't going to beat the better organizations pick for pick, they really need to be stocking up on picks. Trade that first round pick, then trade it again if necessary, but come out of these drafts with 4-5 players with a chance at eventually starting instead of 2-3. If you want a Donte Whitner, don't reach for the guy. If you've got a good player who is going to leave in FA like Clements, at least franchise and trade the guy so you've got an extra draft pick. Value the quarterback position above all else, and focus on offensive line play and playmakers who accentuate the QB skills. Keep good QB's coming and don't be afraid to have too many good ones. +1. Well done.
Dawgg Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 The organization needs a plan. If they can't get any help in free agency(and they've proven they can't), they need to be getting more than their share on draft day. Since they aren't going to beat the better organizations pick for pick, they really need to be stocking up on picks. Trade that first round pick, then trade it again if necessary, but come out of these drafts with 4-5 players with a chance at eventually starting instead of 2-3. If you want a Donte Whitner, don't reach for the guy. If you've got a good player who is going to leave in FA like Clements, at least franchise and trade the guy so you've got an extra draft pick. Value the quarterback position above all else, and focus on offensive line play and playmakers who accentuate the QB skills. Keep good QB's coming and don't be afraid to have too many good ones. This is absolutely true.
BillsVet Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 I think it's noteworthy to recall how many picks and FA dollars have been dumped into the secondary. In 06 DJ and Levy inherited Clements, McGee, and Greer. They signed Kiwaukee Thomas in FA and drafted Whitner, Youboty, and Simpson. Jim Leonhard was there as well, a former UDFA. In 07, they signed Jason Webster and drafted Wendling. They picked up Bryan Scott as a street free agent. In 08, they signed Will James and drafted McKelvin, Corner, and Cox. Dustin Fox was signed as a SFA. Now, they've signed Florence to a modest contract. That's no less than 17 guys who have or will play in the secondary in 4 seasons. 3 inherited, 7 drafted, 3 street free agents, and four UFA's. I'm not astounded by the amount of players Buffalo's employed in the secondary, but it's indicative of serious issues in personnel. Some will hail the Florence signing, but the track record demonstrates anything but.
scribo Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 I think it's noteworthy to recall how many picks and FA dollars have been dumped into the secondary. In 06 DJ and Levy inherited Clements, McGee, and Greer. They signed Kiwaukee Thomas in FA and drafted Whitner, Youboty, and Simpson. Jim Leonhard was there as well, a former UDFA. In 07, they signed Jason Webster and drafted Wendling. They picked up Bryan Scott as a street free agent. In 08, they signed Will James and drafted McKelvin, Corner, and Cox. Dustin Fox was signed as a SFA. Now, they've signed Florence to a modest contract. That's no less than 17 guys who have or will play in the secondary in 4 seasons. 3 inherited, 7 drafted, 3 street free agents, and four UFA's. I'm not astounded by the amount of players Buffalo's employed in the secondary, but it's indicative of serious issues in personnel. Some will hail the Florence signing, but the track record demonstrates anything but. Ouch....that really hurts -- especially considering the top three guys on that whole list I would take are the three they inherited.
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