Tim Graham on AFC East

[The Dean]

I will agree the gap has widened within the division. The front office does not get it, we need a top 5 defense that is physical and gets after the QB to compete in the AFC East. We are not close.

 

 

I don't think they are thinking about a QB, at this point.

[The Rev.Mattb74 ESQ.]

I had posted this earlier, but I thought I would post this again. I just dont see how the rest of the AFC east has became that much better.

 

 

The Jets

They hired a new coach from a system that puts out big named co-ordinators that are supposedly the second comming of Lambordi reguraly. Marvin Lewis and Ted Nolan have both fallen on they're face, they're defence will learn a new system for the third time in three years. They signed a LB that played next to Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs, and behind a very good D-line and the best safety in football behind them. On offense they lost Brett Farve who maybe wasn't the old Brett Farve, but teams still had to respect his deep ball. All they have now is three unproven QBs and they will have a new signal caller for the third straight year. They also lost their starting gaurd, wide reciever and a pretty good second TE. Oh ya they are hoping that Thomas Jones can put up another 1000 yard year without a QB that can throw deep.

 

The Dolphins

I can't stand how everyone in the NFL falls all over Parcells jock like he can't do any wrong. He hasn't built a champion since wide right. Meanwhile coaches that have won a SB since(Gruden, Shannahan, and Billick come to mind) are not in the NFL, how in twenty years, and four teams after his last SB win he still is the NFL golden boy makes me sick. They have signed a couple of the middle of the road players most noteably Chowder who played for them last year(not really an upgrade). They are hoping that Pennington arm can keep it together another year, Ricky Williams will stay sane, and teams will still be lost on stopping that gimmick Wildcat offense. Also to be noted teams that have a big turn around in one season usually come back to earth the next year.

 

The *Patriots

The *Patsy's will be better next year because they get Brady back, not because they got Fred Taylor. I do like the signing of Baker he really would have been a nice pick-up for the Bills. However in the grand scheme of things its not huge.

 

Any thoughts

[BobbyC81]

On ESPN RADIO today, Tim Graham mentioned that Buffalo will have a hard time in F.A. and moving out of the cellar of the AFC East.

 

 

That's why a team like Buffalo needs to build thru the draft. If they can't attract the free agents, invest in their college scouting staff to find the diamonds in the rough. They especially can't afford to have 1st rounders be busts (Mike Williams, Erik Flowers, Losman), or trade them away for players who don't have a lasting impact (Bledsoe).

 

You've also had trading up to draft a disappointing McCargo and taking a risk on an injured McGahee when you already had a productive RB in T.Henry.

 

They don't have to "hit All Pro home runs" with each 1st rounder but need to at least get a productive starter (like Whitner, Evans, Clements) out of them.

 

The misses & mistakes with the 1st rounders are a big reason for this playoff drought. I saw an article before the Super Bowl about what Pittsburgh had done with its 1st rounders in the last 10 years and it was pretty impressive.

[NavarreFL_Bills_Fan]

One thing people fail to realize is Texas and Florida don't have state income taxes....that's alluring when you're making big bucks and want to keep as much as possible.

[The Dean]

One thing people fail to realize is Texas and Florida don't have state income taxes....that's alluring when you're making big bucks and want to keep as much as possible.

 

 

I dunno. In WNY, you can buy a house for 1/2 the price of a similar unit where I live, in Florida. Plus the cost of living in general, groceries, restaurants, bars, etc., seems to be quite a bit higher, here.

[Cornerville]

So Tim Graham says it, credible...me and others say the same thing, its old, its garbage and I want them to lose.

 

Sad.

[Never NEVER Give-up]

I agree with the Rookie. And we need to develop a thicker skin!

 

Curious - did Tim write this, or did one of the many overly-anxious, teeth-knashing, woe-is-me-Bills fan pen this? Maybe Tim is a closet Bills fan - he's moving back to Buffalo in June. That may explain his rationale - or lack of it.

 

Look at what everyone's done in FA so far:

 

The Jets have done the most so far with Scott, but NE's Thomas doesn't look so great now that Ray Lewis isn't next to him. I'm suggesting the Baltimore system works in Baltimore but their personnel look more human once they leave the Chesapeake area. That said, Scott is an upgrade, but he's not Lawrence Taylor, nor is he a leader. Lito Sheppard? The Eagles have been trying to deal him for 2 years, he's over-rated and injury-prone. They haven't done any thing else yet, but TG makes it sound as if we're eating the AFC East dust. Jim Leonard - are Bills fans really sad that he is gone? He was a high-motor slow white guy (to quote many of the Bills-fan-bloggers). He returns punts- did you want him to replace Parrish? He's a Safety - did you want him to replace Whitner or Scott? I don't think so. He was expendable and he's gone. His appeal lies in the fact someone else has him & and if somebody else likes him, we should have kept him? A pretty thin argument!! Not to mention playing next to Ed Reed makes anyone look pretty darn good - now if the Jets got Reed I'd join the teeth-knashing!

 

NE signed Taylor who wouldn't have taken many carries from Lynch or Jackson and Chris Baker who IS a decent talent, but there's someting about his whining and locker room presence that made the Jets sign Bubba Franks and draft Dustin Keller last year when the rest of the outside world thought the Jets were set at TE. The Pats gave Cassel & Vrabel away to KC for a 2nd round choice - astute?? No a pre-arranged deal between Belechik & Pioli. They could have gotten MUCH more from Detroit or Minnesota or others.

 

Miami signed a few of their own - all who were members of last years team that EVERY prognosticator said would be cellar-dwellers. They surprised some teams - they won't this year. They also added Wilson who had a bad year in Oakland - how good is he??? (Average, I think.)

 

The Bills got rid of under-achiever Dockery (another under-achieving Longhorn) and Royal who seemed to punctuate every decent play he made with a fumble at the end of the play. No team needs that. Then the Bills added Fitz - a need at back-up QB and Hangartner, an under-the-radar guy who may be very good, no one knows.

 

And FA isn't over . . .

 

But Buffalo fans are buying TG's crap? We need to knock it off!! The Bills have addressed a couple of real needs. The problem is they need to address a few more and the question is will they do it in FA, the draft or trades?

[Trader]

1. Outside of the bay area (49ers and Oakland), NYC (Giants ans Jets), and Miami (dolphins) I think the nightlife compares with the majority of NFL cities ....... I find it hard to believe Cincy, Cleveland, Pittsburg or Detroit are happening towns nightlife wise.

 

2. I really don't think a FA will base a career move on the shineness of the stadium ..... practice/workout facilities maybe ... medical facilities maybe .... but not stadiums. And good weather is in the eye of the beholder ..... would you rather practice and have camp through a cool autumn in WNY or in the 98degree heat of Miami?

 

3. sounds good at first blush ..... but the Pats stunk for years and were able to build through it ...... Cowboys stunk for years ..... Green Bay stunk for years ....... Cards stunk forever ....... the NFL is cyclic every team stinks for a while and is good for a while

 

4. Very valid point about the number of holes needing to be filled ..... that shouldn't scare away FAs, it should attract them. I do agree it would scare away the "premire" 100 million dollar FAs, but like you said we don't need him right now we need ten 10 million dollar men. As far as Canada ..... I say bull sh--.

 

5. I may have to agree with point #5 ..... but before I do let's see if Brady is fully recovered from his knee, and I want to see who the Jets have at QB.

 

 

The City of Buffalo didn't seem to be a real problem when Bill Polian was GM and the Bills were winning. The problem is that we are a docile franchise in a division with agressive franchises. If the Bills they actually spent cash to the cap and still couldn't land players than I might buy some of the arguments. For most players I do not believe weather is an issues and for some of the big linemen I cannnot imagine going to camp in Carolina or Jacksonville or Baltimore.

 

I do think that the Bills are now known around the league as a doormat franchise that lacks a committment and leadership to building a winner. The problem is compounded by the AFC East

[Trader]

1. Outside of the bay area (49ers and Oakland), NYC (Giants ans Jets), and Miami (dolphins) I think the nightlife compares with the majority of NFL cities ....... I find it hard to believe Cincy, Cleveland, Pittsburg or Detroit are happening towns nightlife wise.

 

2. I really don't think a FA will base a career move on the shineness of the stadium ..... practice/workout facilities maybe ... medical facilities maybe .... but not stadiums. And good weather is in the eye of the beholder ..... would you rather practice and have camp through a cool autumn in WNY or in the 98degree heat of Miami?

 

3. sounds good at first blush ..... but the Pats stunk for years and were able to build through it ...... Cowboys stunk for years ..... Green Bay stunk for years ....... Cards stunk forever ....... the NFL is cyclic every team stinks for a while and is good for a while

 

4. Very valid point about the number of holes needing to be filled ..... that shouldn't scare away FAs, it should attract them. I do agree it would scare away the "premire" 100 million dollar FAs, but like you said we don't need him right now we need ten 10 million dollar men. As far as Canada ..... I say bull sh--.

 

5. I may have to agree with point #5 ..... but before I do let's see if Brady is fully recovered from his knee, and I want to see who the Jets have at QB.

 

 

The City of Buffalo didn't seem to be a real problem when Bill Polian was GM and the Bills were winning. The problem is that we are a docile franchise in a division with agressive franchises. If the Bills they actually spent cash to the cap and still couldn't land players than I might buy some of the arguements. For most players I do not believe weather is an issues and for some of the big linemen I cannnot imagine going to camp in Carolina or Jacksonville or Baltimore.

 

I do think that the Bills are now known around the league as a doormat franchise that lacks a committment and leadership to building a winner. The problem is compounded by the AFC East.

 

With that reputation, the danger is that you attract a "Dockery". A player who is not motivated and sees his time in Buffalo as an opportunity to fatten his bank account.

[lets_go_bills]

A winning program cures all. You can ramble off a 100 reasons why an FA wouldn't come to Buffalo. But there's really only one: Nine straight years without playoffs.

 

You hear about guys taking paycuts to play on winners.

[zonabb]

One thing people fail to realize is Texas and Florida don't have state income taxes....that's alluring when you're making big bucks and want to keep as much as possible.

 

Thank you! I went through this on another thread and if there is on thing Graham missed, it was this angle. $6 mil goes a hell of a lot futher in Texas or Florida than in Buffalo. And don't start with the housing discussion because it's false. They can buy a millionaire mansion here and if they're lucky resell if for that they bought it for (McGee lost about $100,000 on his house when he sold it). They can buy the same house in Miami or Dallas for more but actually gain equity on it and pay way less taxes on it so it's more of an asset than it is here, where a millon dollar house owned for 5 years is likley to cost close to $100,000+ in taxes but not gain $100,000 in equity.

 

Face it, WNY is not attractive. Take your own emotional attachment out of the discussion and approach it logically. With the state of NFL today (greedy owners, monster stadium debt, rich-only game attendees), the Buffalo Bills are the Kansas City Royals of the NFL.

[Trader]

very true, except our cheap real estate is offset by INSANE property and income taxes.... FL doesnt have state income tax... thats a big take home difference when you are making millions! their property taxes are FAR LESS than NY.

 

thank our worthless politicians.

 

Absolutely correct. Housing is about the total cost of housing. It also about the potential for appreciation. The high tax structure kills any chance of significant appreciation.

 

State Income tax is another problem.

 

How about the commercials that the public employee unions are running on escalating the taxes on the "rich"? and high income earning people. I bet the players and their agents just love those.

[Pozitive51]

The weather, the city, the facilities, the local nightlife and economy would not matter if these players believed the franchise was committed to winning. At the end of the day... it comes down to winning. What player with 5 years remaining in the league is going to sign with Buffalo for even money as compared to another team if they don't feel like the team is committed to winning?

[Sisyphean Bills]

They don't have to "hit All Pro home runs" with each 1st rounder but need to at least get a productive starter (like Whitner, Evans, Clements) out of them.

Not every 1st rounder is going to be a great player, but a team has to have some leaders, guys that are recognizably superior football players on the field. The Bills really don't have anybody that fits the mold now and it is a problem.

[lets_go_bills]

The weather, the city, the facilities, the local nightlife and economy would not matter if these players believed the franchise was committed to winning. At the end of the day... it comes down to winning. What player with 5 years remaining in the league is going to sign with Buffalo for even money as compared to another team if they don't feel like the team is committed to winning?

 

I agree, check my post, three posts up. Winning cures all.

[Trader]

These cats dont care about the weather nightlife or whatever. They wanna get paid. They play football for a few months, deal with living there, then after the season they go where ever they want.

 

This is a true statement for the kind of player we want to attract. All business during the season. It's a long off season and there is plenty of opporutnity to play.

 

You want to party locally rent a limo and head for Chippewa, The Ballet, Niagara falls, or Toronto. You will stay out of trouble and have as much fun as you wallet can handle.

[The Dean]

The City of Buffalo didn't seem to be a real problem when Bill Polian was GM and the Bills were winning. The problem is that we are a docile franchise in a division with agressive franchises. If the Bills they actually spent cash to the cap and still couldn't land players than I might buy some of the arguments. For most players I do not believe weather is an issues and for some of the big linemen I cannnot imagine going to camp in Carolina or Jacksonville or Baltimore.

 

I do think that the Bills are now known around the league as a doormat franchise that lacks a committment and leadership to building a winner. The problem is compounded by the AFC East

 

 

I'm not saying I totally agree with all of Tim's points, but 20 years ago (if we use 1989, as a baseline), the Ralph was 20 years younger and there wasn't shiny new stadiums in NE* and Miami. As you note, the Bills were winning (which is one of Tim's points) and they didn't have a lot of holes to fill, for the most part (contrary to one the situation now, according to Tim).

 

The only thing that is really the same, is the nightlife comparison, and I think one can argue that Miami (and particularly South Beach) has really blown up, since the late 80's. Also, some might argue that players, overall, have become more shallow and interested in distractions (Cincy, is that you? ).

 

But, I think the key point is, when it comes to competing in the FA market, Buffalo is at a disadvantage when compared to some other franchises, particularly two in their own division (Miami and New York/Jersey), because they are a small market, with poor weather and without a reputation for having a hip, urban scene. But, that disadvantage is lessened, significantly, when the team is winning consistently (as demonstrated by NE* now, and the Bills of the late 80's and early 90's).

[Trader]

I had posted this earlier, but I thought I would post this again. I just dont see how the rest of the AFC east has became that much better.

 

 

The Jets

They hired a new coach from a system that puts out big named co-ordinators that are supposedly the second comming of Lambordi reguraly. Marvin Lewis and Ted Nolan have both fallen on they're face, they're defence will learn a new system for the third time in three years. They signed a LB that played next to Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs, and behind a very good D-line and the best safety in football behind them. On offense they lost Brett Farve who maybe wasn't the old Brett Farve, but teams still had to respect his deep ball. All they have now is three unproven QBs and they will have a new signal caller for the third straight year. They also lost their starting gaurd, wide reciever and a pretty good second TE. Oh ya they are hoping that Thomas Jones can put up another 1000 yard year without a QB that can throw deep.

 

The Dolphins

I can't stand how everyone in the NFL falls all over Parcells jock like he can't do any wrong. He hasn't built a champion since wide right. Meanwhile coaches that have won a SB since(Gruden, Shannahan, and Billick come to mind) are not in the NFL, how in twenty years, and four teams after his last SB win he still is the NFL golden boy makes me sick. They have signed a couple of the middle of the road players most noteably Chowder who played for them last year(not really an upgrade). They are hoping that Pennington arm can keep it together another year, Ricky Williams will stay sane, and teams will still be lost on stopping that gimmick Wildcat offense. Also to be noted teams that have a big turn around in one season usually come back to earth the next year.

 

The *Patriots

The *Patsy's will be better next year because they get Brady back, not because they got Fred Taylor. I do like the signing of Baker he really would have been a nice pick-up for the Bills. However in the grand scheme of things its not huge.

 

Any thoughts

 

How about the Pats with,Brady Back, tougher running game, Probably Greer, and two draft choices in the top 32?

where they will surely find one or two of those really good linebacker in this class.?

[lets_go_bills]

I'm not the most well-travelled person, but I friggin love Buffalo.

 

And it's not like you "live" there 24-7. You do training camp then play 16 games over 17 weeks. And half are on the road. And then you have the remaining six months of the year during the offseason to live wherever the hell in the world you want.

 

And during the time you're in your team's "city" you are busy practicing, watching film and playing football anyways.

 

And if you can't handle cold weather, you're a B word.

[Pozitive51]

Do you feel this franchise is truly committed to winning? If not, I find it hard to continue to be as loyal and die hard of a fan. I really thought Brandon being the marketing man would recognize that the fan base is thread bare and show the commitment to building a winner this off season. That commitment has got to be shown through free agency or trades. While I realize its not over, they certainly are starting off slow. The FO has had three months to develop a plan and take action. I am hopeful that there is a impact trade in the works, because other than Coles I don't see too many FA still available that would have an immediate impact and be a huge upgrade.