VOR Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 maybe they should actually spend a top pick on the OL so we aren't continually playing free agency roulette. we signed a C who was good enough to be taken in the 5th round and cut loose by the team who watched him every day. He wasn't "cut loose." He was an UFA and the Panthers have no cap room thanks to extending LT Jordan Gross and franchising Julius Peppers. They wanted him back badly because he can start and play well at center and guard, and their interior OL has proven to be injury-prone. Oh and Jason Brown, who probably got twice as much as Hangartner did, was a 4th rounder. Jason Peters was an UDFA. Mike Williams was a 1st rounder. he's better than nothing (which is under contract), but only time will tell if produces any better than the pretenders we have been using for the last 15 years. I would seriously doubt that this is the permanent answer to C Given that he'll be 27 in a couple months, he's the permanent answer until he proves otherwise. I don't see the Bills taking a center high in the draft, but could see a later-round pick (like say a 4th or 5th rounder ). Frankly there's a lot to like about Hangartner. He's smart (47/50 Wonderlic) but nasty and a lockerrrom leader, has good size (315#), seems durable (hasn't missed a game in 4 years), versatile (can play OG or OC and plays on ST's), and in 27 starts he gave up just 4 sacks and 2 penalties. He also received good coaching in Carolina. The only area I don't know is run-blocking, but the Panthers were a pretty good running team last year, when he started 8 games, which says a little something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 By the way, there are very few big, strong, anchor type of centers. The vast majority of centers are the "technicians who understand leverage and blocking angles." Duke Preston (6'5" 326) I believe was the heaviest starting center in the league last year. Geoff Hangarten is 6'5" 301. Jeff Saturday (6'2" 295) is considered a finesse center. Birk is said to anchor well although he's listed at 6'4" and 309 pounds. Here's the heights and weights of the 2009 Pro Bowl Centers: Andrew Gurode 6'4" 318 Shawn O'Hara 6'3" 303 Kevin Mawae 6'4" 289 Nick Mangold 6'4" 300 Casey Weigman 6'2" 285 As you can see, only one of them is heavier than Hangarten. People get all hung up on heights and weights but really the only question that counts is "can a guy play football?" Furthermore, centers tend to be the smallest of offensive linemen. He wasn't "cut loose." He was an UFA and the Panthers have no cap room thanks to extending LT Jordan Gross and franchising Julius Peppers. They wanted him back badly because he can start and play well at center and guard, and their interior OL has proven to be injury-prone. Oh and Jason Brown, who probably got twice as much as Hangartner did, was a 4th rounder. Jason Peters was an UDFA. Mike Williams was a 1st rounder. Given that he'll be 27 in a couple months, he's the permanent answer until he proves otherwise. I don't see the Bills taking a center high in the draft, but could see a later-round pick (like say a 4th or 5th rounder ). Frankly there's a lot to like about Hangartner. He's smart (47/50 Wonderlic) but nasty and a lockerrrom leader, has good size (315#), seems durable (hasn't missed a game in 4 years), versatile (can play OG or OC and plays on ST's), and in 27 starts he gave up just 4 sacks and 2 penalties. He also received good coaching in Carolina. The only area I don't know is run-blocking, but the Panthers were a pretty good running team last year, when he started 8 games, which says a little something. Two real good posts in this thread. Nice work, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGimp Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Also, while I like this signing, wasn't the biggest complaint about Fowler that he wasn't big enough to handle the massive NTs we face in the division? If that's true, Hangartner isn't much of an upgrade in terms of size. Fowler was 6'3" and 310. Hangartner is listed at 6'5" 301. I realize that leverage means a lot on the line of scrimmage in terms of size, but he's basically the same build as Fowler. Does anyone else see this as a problem? Either way, I think Buffalo must still get another OL in FA, and certainly should draft a G or C in the third round as this class is pretty deep for OL. i simply believe that this organization is retarded. why bring in another push over to be C? go get a monster in the draft that you would have for the next years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 i simply believe that this organization is retarded. why bring in another push over to be C? go get a monster in the draft that you would have for the next years Who? Is there a center in the draft who is a can't-miss prospect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Harry Hangnail,another player that has trouble with getting bullrushed. Smart player well liked in the locker..blah...blah blah. Where have I heard this or seen this type of player before??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 If the Bills believe Simmons is healthy and can be gotten at the right price they will sign him. Then you have Peters, Simmons, Hangartner, Butler, and Walker. Preston is a back up signed for league min. Draft a center/gaurd in round 3/4. I think that line sounds solid, if everyone plays to potential and stays mostly injury free. Let them play together for two years and develope some chemistry. Simmons and Hangartner sound like solid players. Butler made some strides and is good when healthy, Our Tackles are good tackles. Peters should get his payday and Walker is a good r/t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 If the Bills believe Simmons is healthy and can be gotten at the right price they will sign him. Then you have Peters, Simmons, Hangartner, Butler, and Walker. Preston is a back up signed for league min. Draft a center/gaurd in round 3/4. I think that line sounds solid, if everyone plays to potential and stays mostly injury free. Let them play together for two years and develope some chemistry. Simmons and Hangartner sound like solid players. Butler made some strides and is good when healthy, Our Tackles are good tackles. Peters should get his payday and Walker is a good r/t. I think Hangnail will get eaten alive by the Pats, Jets dt`s or any other force at dt. Time will Tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I vote for some pass rush with the first round pick. DE is a glaring need to me, and now that we've signed a center, getting a potentially better center is a "moderate need". If the opposition's QB doesn't have 6 seconds to throw each pass, our CBs, LBs and Safetey's will all be better. Why do you feel DE is more of a need than DT? The Bills drafted Chris Ellis last year and I say give him a chance first. The Bills will have Schobel back and Ellis plus Denney and Kelsay. Other than Stroud I don't see a starting quality DT on the team. I would put DT way above DE. JMO Not to say that I don't like the pick up ....... I do. But everything I've read says he is a "technique" type of blocker who relies on angles and leverage. I'll be the first to admit I'm not real knowledgable about line play but it sounds to me he may not be the right man to face a 3-4 NT six times or more a year. Sounds like he'd make a bang up guard, but personnally I'd still be looking for the big strong anchor kind of center. What he said. The article I read from Tim Graham said that GH is 6'5" and 315# and will definitely play center, as this is his preferred position. He's also looking forward to the challenge of facing Wilfork, Jenkins (his former teammate), and Ferguson twice a year. I read that too. He may be looking forward to facing them but the real question is can he handle them? They still need a backup to play OC, remember, they lost both Fowler and Preston so they had no Centres prior to this signing. I think it would be a good idea to draft a guy that can sit and play behind the new guy until he can beat him out. What he said. Maybe a 4th rounder on center? And what about LJ Smith at TE? Nothing huge for a contract, though. IMO, fourth rounder is to late. I'd love to see a C in the first three rounds but the Bills don't give a about the center position. I think the success of the OL during the SB years had a lot to do with Kent Hull. JMO If the Bills do not get anyone they like in the draft, they should still have thier choice between Preston or Fowler. I do not see either of those guys being signed by May 1st. The reason neither will be signed is because they suck. I don't want them back and it appears right now that no other teams want them either. I think Hangnail will get eaten alive by the Pats, Jets dt`s or any other force at dt. Time will Tell. We can only hope that he gets better at blocking the 3-4 guys and fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I think Hangnail will get eaten alive by the Pats, Jets dt`s or any other force at dt. Time will Tell. You mean Jenkins who he practiced against everyday for 3 years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 You mean Jenkins who he practiced against everyday for 3 years.... Just because he practiced against him,doesn`t mean he can block him. High school ,colledge remember alot of the 2nd team players you went against and whipped there . Well you know. Could work the other way too. But that is why he wasn`t starting. Unless the guy in front of him was some kind of intergalactic champ . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Just because he practiced against him,doesn`t mean he can block him. High school ,colledge remember alot of the 2nd team players you went against and whipped there . Well you know. Could work the other way too. But that is why he wasn`t starting. Unless the guy in front of him was some kind of intergalactic champ . Just curious, how many games have you seen Hartgartner play? You seem to have some pretty strong opinions regarding him. I assume you have seen him play. I've seen almost every game he played in, but that is just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Just curious, how many games have you seen Hartgartner play? You seem to have some pretty strong opinions regarding him. I assume you have seen him play. I've seen almost every game he played in, but that is just me. So you are going on the record to say he will be a big upgrade over what we had. And he will hold his own against our rival Dt`s ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 So you are going on the record to say he will be a big upgrade over what we had. And he will hold his own against our rival Dt`s ? Helen Keller could see he's an upgrade over what we had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 So you are going on the record to say he will be a big upgrade over what we had. And he will hold his own against our rival Dt`s ? It isn't saying much, but yes, he is a big upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 It isn't saying much, but yes, he is a big upgrade. OK I`ll take your word for it and will be watching this improved play. Wilfork and Jenkins Beware of the Hangman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGimp Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Who? Is there a center in the draft who is a can't-miss prospect? supposedly, there are multiple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 He wasn't "cut loose." He was an UFA and the Panthers have no cap room thanks to extending LT Jordan Gross and franchising Julius Peppers. They wanted him back badly because he can start and play well at center and guard, and their interior OL has proven to be injury-prone. Oh and Jason Brown, who probably got twice as much as Hangartner did, was a 4th rounder. Jason Peters was an UDFA. Mike Williams was a 1st rounder. Given that he'll be 27 in a couple months, he's the permanent answer until he proves otherwise. I don't see the Bills taking a center high in the draft, but could see a later-round pick (like say a 4th or 5th rounder ). Frankly there's a lot to like about Hangartner. He's smart (47/50 Wonderlic) but nasty and a lockerrrom leader, has good size (315#), seems durable (hasn't missed a game in 4 years), versatile (can play OG or OC and plays on ST's), and in 27 starts he gave up just 4 sacks and 2 penalties. He also received good coaching in Carolina. The only area I don't know is run-blocking, but the Panthers were a pretty good running team last year, when he started 8 games, which says a little something. if he was so indispensible, he would have been signed by Carolina. the fact that he was drafted in the 5th round goes to his perceived talent and ability when he was drafted - middle of the road. He was smart enough to hold down the fort at C, but not strong enough or dominate enough to earn a new contract with Carolina. He will likely perform to the same level of competence we have seen for the last 15 years at C. Of you think that is progress, then so be it. They still need to draft some top end OL in the draft each year to feed the pipeline. If they had spent even one top pick on an OL in the last 4 years, they would not have to reach in free agency to field an OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 if he was so indispensible, he would have been signed by Carolina. the fact that he was drafted in the 5th round goes to his perceived talent and ability when he was drafted - middle of the road. He was smart enough to hold down the fort at C, but not strong enough or dominate enough to earn a new contract with Carolina. He will likely perform to the same level of competence we have seen for the last 15 years at C. Of you think that is progress, then so be it. They still need to draft some top end OL in the draft each year to feed the pipeline. If they had spent even one top pick on an OL in the last 4 years, they would not have to reach in free agency to field an OL. The Finkman watched him and said he will be a HUGE upgrade over our previous players.Watchout for the Hangman, . I`ll bet Jenkins and Wilfork are shakin in there shoes. Go Hangman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 supposedly, there are multiple Yes and supposedly Mike Williams was a franchise LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 It isn't saying much, but yes, he is a big upgrade. Considering you've seen him play and the best these other guys can say is "well, why wasn't he re-signed/higher than a 5th round pick/starting," it's apparent you've won. Now we'll have to wait to see Hangartner prove it, but as I said, there's a lot to like about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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