The Big Cat Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 great thread. Big f'ing deal - what's a few extra percent on $250k? $7500 - boo hoo. $600 a month is a lot of money, and as many have said already - $250k in NYC, Boston, LA or a lot of places doesn't make anyone rich by any means. They surely aren't poor, but they aren't always swimming in money. Big Cat - You have a LOT to learn, and you really don't get it. You make comments about those jerks who throw away money on top shelf liquor - (and I think this is where a lot of the hatred comes from. People picture every "rich person" as a dickhead in a suit and a private jet grabbing girls asses. ) Whether or not someone is a jerk - spending a lot of money is a GREAT thing. Guess who the $14 gin and tonic helps? It helps that jerk bartender. It helps that jerk girl doing the liquor promotions making $15 an hour. It helps that jerk immigrant busboy who sends money back to his family. It helps the jerk liquor delivery man. It helps the jerk who cleans the bar. It helps the jerk who saved his money and became a liquor distributor. Go ahead and ask anyone of those people which they would rather have - an exra $60 per month that they will be getting under Obama, or a bunch of rich jerks out spending their money. It is so easy to say "big deal, who cares about those guys". But when does it end? If 39% isn't a big deal, why not 41% - it's only 2 measly percent. Charities are going to get CRUSHED under this plan. Amusingly, our vice president - who is very excited to spend our money rather than let us spend it and give it away gave a whopping $3,000 to charity over the past 10 years. I honestly can't even fathom that. So all the rich people in the world are suddenly going to lose ALL their disposable income? This is the assumption under which the argument has been made from the start, yet I'm the one who is accused of having underdeveloped tunnel vision. Sounds about right. You know something, I do get it. I get it a lot more than you old balls want to give me credit for. Once I double my age, and have lived the same amount of years as you and the rest of the block heads here, I know a few things will be continue to prove themselves true: Every issue is not black and white (a common belief amongst you old balls which continues to baffle me). Chances are, unless I'm a policy maker or have dissected an issue at the highest level of academia, I'll be privy to about 40% of all information pertaining to the government and the decisions they make. Therefore, I won't speak in absolutes, and certainly won't pontificate based on personal belief. I also won't be naive enough to think that something that happened 30 years ago is bound to happen now, considering the world we live in now goes through systematic changes about once every 60 months. I'll encourage young people to think and theorize about things which will forever affect their lives. If I happen to come across somebody with less life experience than me, rather than belittle him or her (on a message board), I'll actually provide some substance to my critique of their thoughts. And on a side note- the ONLY person benefiting from a rich dick buying a $25 cocktail, is the rich dick who owns the bar and sets his prices so. The bartender MAY get a tip from the rich dick, but if he is in fact a dick, it'll be the same tip that he gets from the average Joe who throw him an extra buck for every beer he orders. Also, the rich people who are bitching and moaning about these tax increases ARE the dicks. The rest of the level-headed wealthy folks out there (believe it or not, I do know/speak with some) understand that they DIDN'T perish when they paid the proposed tax percentage under Clinton, and probably won't now. They've also come to terms with the fact that just about the only thing the United States is the best at any more is pumping money into our military (link ). Aside from that, we pretty much live in a second rate country, and since private enterprise has YET to demonstrate the gumption to fix it, we now have to throw down a sh-t ton of money in back pay. I'm sure the solution you'd offer me would be: then leave. And to that I say: see point #1.
GG Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 And on a side note- the ONLY person benefiting from a rich dick buying a $25 cocktail, is the rich dick who owns the bar and sets his prices so. The bartender MAY get a tip from the rich dick, but if he is in fact a dick, it'll be the same tip that he gets from the average Joe who throw him an extra buck for every beer he orders. And there you have it folks, it's not about sound financial policy, but retribution against people you don't like. Rich people, bad. Rich, arrogant people, worse. That line of reasoning has surely worked in human history.
Booster4324 Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 And there you have it folks, it's not about sound financial policy, but retribution against people you don't like. Rich people, bad. Rich, arrogant people, worse. That line of reasoning has surely worked in human history. I would argue that if he ordered a 25 dollar drink and left me a dollar, he should be universally despised. Of course I feel the same way about the idiot who thinks 37 cents on an 18.63 tab (he was far from rich) is appropriate. Mind you, I haven't bartended in years...I still remember that guy. Carry on
GG Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 I would argue that if he ordered a 25 dollar drink and left me a dollar, he should be universally despised. Of course I feel the same way about the idiot who thinks 37 cents on an 18.63 tab (he was far from rich) is appropriate. Mind you, I haven't bartended in years...I still remember that guy. Carry on So are you saying that there are poor people who are also scumbags?
John Adams Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Cook Jim, my point was that rich people aren't more likely to SPEND than poor people, they're more likely to INVEST. So, if anything, there would only be incremental nicks in their portfolio, not their local Starbucks/Toys R Us. It's almost like you think INVEST is something to discourage. Want to start a bakery? Better find some rich investors. Got a good invetion you want to bring to market? Better find some rich investors to help you manufacture it. Got a college degree and need a job? Better hope some investors are pouring money into the company that might hire you.
gmac17 Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 And on a side note- the ONLY person benefiting from a rich dick buying a $25 cocktail, is the rich dick who owns the bar and sets his prices so. The bartender MAY get a tip from the rich dick, but if he is in fact a dick, it'll be the same tip that he gets from the average Joe who throw him an extra buck for every beer he orders. Wrong, wrong, wrong, and you obviously don’t understand the basics of how the economy or business works. Do you think they guy who charges a lot for a drink runs a dive in a crappy part of town with $3k a month rent and then goes home and sits on a pile of cash he got with $25 drinks? Nope – he probably pimped out his bar – and to do that he hired a designer, he hired an architect, he hired painters, he bought furniture from some girl who just started up her business, he bought an AV system from LABillz so he can go piss on the poor. The one reason why this guy probably does suck is because he is likely cheating on his taxes with all that cash, which I will never condone. I don’t care if you are a waitress or a bar owner or the guy in charge of the IRS – pay your f’ing taxes, (and don’t try to give me the old “it’s a common mistake”) Also, the rich people who are bitching and moaning about these tax increases ARE the dicks. Are the charities who are bitching and moaning about these tax increases also dicks? Your blind love has you absolutely batshit loony. You have no idea what my family does to help the poor, or the man on the street, or my friend, or my neighbor, or my business partner. And to insinuate that we piss on these people only further exposes you as the know-nothing, Obama-loving Pelosi-muncher who spends more time standing in judgement of what you don't understand than taking the time to know better. You have no idea the number of hours donated to help people, or the number of dollars donated to worthy causes, but suffice it to say they completely and utterly eclipse that of your beloved VP, Plugs Biden. But because you don't see it...because you can't account for it...because we don't feel the need to tell you about it, in your eyes, we clearly do nothing. best post I’ve read on here in a long while, and I couldn’t agree more. It's almost like you think INVEST is something to discourage. Want to start a bakery? Better find some rich investors. Got a good invetion you want to bring to market? Better find some rich investors to help you manufacture it. Got a college degree and need a job? Better hope some investors are pouring money into the company that might hire you. Stop making sense JA. Having money to invest = bad!!! Giving that same money to the government to give to pencil pushers who leave by 5:01 every single day = good!
gmac17 Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Bigcat - here is a real life scenario. My sister and brother in law by your words are "rich dicks" because they do well for themselves and do not want to pay more in taxes. They recently started funding a scholarship to your alma mater, which as you know is a signifcant amount of money. If the government lops of $30k or $40k from their income, there is a very good chance they won't fund that scholarship anymore. Instead, that money will go into what i'm sure will be an efficient government program. so that will be one less academically worthy, financially unworthy student who will get to enjoy a bison burger. Instead, it will mean some government bureaucrat who got a job because his father knows somebody will get to work for the government for the rest of his life.
Andrew in CA Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 :lol: I can't speak for the others, but Democracy Now and Common Sense criticize Obama more than they applaud him, especially since he's taken office.
GG Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 so that will be one less academically worthy, financially unworthy student who will get to enjoy a bison burger. Instead, it will mean some government bureaucrat who got a job because his father knows somebody will get to work for the government for the rest of his life. And this is the main issue. It's not a matter of taking food off the needy table. It's not throwing out motherless children into the street. It's not fixing a growing behemoth that has never had to learn by the rules of efficiency. Hell, GDP is down 7%, so corporate America is slashing and improving efficiency and trying to make a profit with as few people as possible, knowing that if they do nothing their costs are going up. With no growth in the private sector, you won't grow the economy, and will continue to shrink the tax base. The revolt is that there's nary a peep of forced efficiency initiatives in government - just calls for the obligatory studies, which cost more and accomplish nothing. So excuse those of us who will see their taxes rise, complain about the money going into a sink hole. If we knew that the money was going to go to a good cause, instead of padding the layers of government, then perhaps we would be more understanding.
Wacka Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 I can't speak for the others, but Democracy Now and Common Sense criticize Obama more than they applaud him, especially since he's taken office. Because he isn't far enough to the left. I passed Democracy now while channel surfing once. It had someone droning on about some leftist crap. By droning, I mean the woman looked tired and spoke in a monotone with no inflection.
Kingfish Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 It had someone droning on about some leftist crap. By droning, I mean the woman looked tired and spoke in a monotone with no inflection. Thank you for explaining what "droning" means.
Andrew in CA Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Because he isn't far enough to the left. I passed Democracy now while channel surfing once. It had someone droning on about some leftist crap. By droning, I mean the woman looked tired and spoke in a monotone with no inflection. Yes, Democracy Now is far-left wing, but it's unfair to cast them as Obama-supporters. Common Sense, however, is nothing of the sort, have you ever tried listening to the program? I think it's pretty insightful.
RkFast Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 I wonder how all those pilots and maintainance workers, office staff, etc. working at the small private jet companies are doing now that all those "rich dicks" are told their flights on these airlines are now verboten and forbidden under Dear Leader. But Im sure that guy getting paid ONLY when "wheels are up", that truck driver shuttling Jet A around the tarmac, and that lady pushing papers across the desk back in the hangar are also just "rich dicks" who are HAPPY to be just sitting on their collective asses. Maybe when they are huddled up trying to figure out how to make the next payment on the plane they bought to shuttle those "rich dicks" pulling down $251K thats now gathering dust, they can down a few $25 cocktails and just laught it off before they all go home to their mansions.
The Big Cat Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Bigcat - here is a real life scenario. My sister and brother in law by your words are "rich dicks" because they do well for themselves and do not want to pay more in taxes. They recently started funding a scholarship to your alma mater, which as you know is a signifcant amount of money. If the government lops of $30k or $40k from their income, there is a very good chance they won't fund that scholarship anymore. Instead, that money will go into what i'm sure will be an efficient government program. so that will be one less academically worthy, financially unworthy student who will get to enjoy a bison burger. Instead, it will mean some government bureaucrat who got a job because his father knows somebody will get to work for the government for the rest of his life. When their tax hike DOES result in having to cut the scholarship, get back to me. I mean when this theory of yours comes to fruition. Note: I didn't say that I HOPE this happens, obviously I don't. And the bolded section--another assumption you've made--represents more of the same black and white, if not a.), then must be b.) mentality I mentioned before.
KD in CA Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 So are you saying that there are poor people who are also scumbags? No, that guy just needed more money from the gov't so he could afford to tip properly.
The Big Cat Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Because he isn't far enough to the left. I passed Democracy now while channel surfing once. It had someone droning on about some leftist crap. By droning, I mean the woman looked tired and spoke in a monotone with no inflection. that would be the show's host/creator Amy Goodman. so which is it? the MMM you despise? or the independent journalists who get it done for all the right reasons?
The Big Cat Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 I wonder how all those pilots and maintainance workers, office staff, etc. working at the small private jet companies are doing now that all those "rich dicks" are told their flights on these airlines are now verboten and forbidden under Dear Leader. But Im sure that guy getting paid ONLY when "wheels are up", that truck driver shuttling Jet A around the tarmac, and that lady pushing papers across the desk back in the hangar are also just "rich dicks" who are HAPPY to be just sitting on their collective asses. Maybe when they are huddled up trying to figure out how to make the next payment on the plane they bought to shuttle those "rich dicks" pulling down $251K thats now gathering dust, they can down a few $25 cocktails and just laught it off before they all go home to their mansions. Yeah, it's tax increases hurting airlines. All the repurcussions you mention above will come to be when 5% of the population pays more in taxes.
Booster4324 Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 No, that guy just needed more money from the gov't so he could afford to tip properly. That would work too. Tips know no politics.
The Big Cat Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Yes, Democracy Now is far-left wing, but it's unfair to cast them as Obama-supporters. Common Sense, however, is nothing of the sort, have you ever tried listening to the program? I think it's pretty insightful. Just out of curiousity--what about Democracy Now makes you think it's far-left?
RkFast Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Yeah, it's tax increases hurting airlines. All the repurcussions you mention above will come to be when 5% of the population pays more in taxes. Im not talking about taxes, you moron. Im talking about your half-assed cassertion that the wealthy's spending habits have no effect on anybody.
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