GG Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 The "entire stimulus package" is not at all supposed to be only about promoting jobs. That's about a quarter of it, and has been from day one. It was always, always, always supposed to do several things at once. Put money in people's hands soon with tax cuts and extending unemployment benefits, start some jobs soon, some jobs in the mid term and some in the long term that will eventually change the economy (the green jobs and alternative energy, etc.) It was also always, always, always designed to feature a lot of training and retraining of workers, and help education from pre-K to college which is almost one quarter of the package. The immediate jobs element of the package was always supposed to be about a quarter of it, if that. Then it's not a stimulus bill, but 3/4 of a massive spending behemoth - which comes at a time of a depressed GDP along with a few trillion of other dollars that are being tossed at the other problems. So while you may prop up the situation in the very near term, you are guaranteeing a much slower recovery that will need to tax the hell out of the population. So in the end, the people who you think will benefit from the stimulus will end up getting screwed because they won't be able to land a decent job. Don't look now, but here comes a $400 bn spending bill on top of a $600 bn healthcare bill, all with questionable measures to pay for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Jindal's been an up and comer in the GOP for a while now. Which is sad, quite frankly. One would think Jindal would have been disqualified after Bush, but eh, we haven't learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Which is sad, quite frankly. One would think Jindal would have been disqualified after Bush, but eh, we haven't learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 an apparatchik. If you work for a governmental entity, well then I understand...mope, cash the check, kiss the hand, lift the leg on the private sector, encourage more government, or be one of that very extreme rarity - those that quit. It is easy to quit. It is easy to give up in the face of adversity. It is very rare that one actually sticks around trying to get things to change. One of the harder things that I have learned is that you can't shake the tree too hard and too fast or it is going to fall on you. Like the other poster said, nice use of the term. I am sure to use it on many! Nice word ammo! This is my 18th anniversary with the fed... I am surrounded by it (the apparatchik) daily. IMO, it will not change until we get more generational turnover... Over the last 18 years I have seen it change slowly, but we are stil stuck in the 1950's and 1960's way of running gov't at times... We are still firmly entrenched with the baby-boomers running the show. I am going to have to wear them out with age. My wife has it a ton easier working at the local gov't level... Less bureaucracy to encounter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I'm sure they have some estimate. I would bet its something along the lines of "money put towards the project, minus equipment and overhead costs, divided by yearly salary". Edit: here LA, apparently in addition to jobs, volcano monitoring saves lives and protects property and loss of money through property damage. http://www.livescience.com/environment/090...monitoring.html Same with this: Crumbling Locks and Dams Oh... It also helps the economy with a relatively high return on your tax dollars vs. what it costs. Cited from the Chicago Tribune article: "It's shovel-ready," Barnes said, using the buzzword that means the major work needed on the lock qualifies for funding under the federal stimulus legislation aimed at putting people to work and boosting the economy. "Modernizing the nation's waterways provides an incredible return on the dollar," said Jim Farrell, executive director of the chamber's infrastructure council. "It's a relatively minor cost compared to fixing O'Hare [international Airport] or modernizing the rapid transit system in Chicago." A single barge has the cargo capacity equivalent to 15 jumbo hopper freight cars or 58 large semitrailer trucks, according to transportation experts. The federal stimulus package provided the Army Corps of Engineers $4.6 billion, which would be used toward a range of purposes. The bulk of the funding needed to bring the waterways system to a state of good repair and expand the capacity of locks is authorized by Congress under the Water Resources Development Act. "The problem our industry faces in terms of public support is that we are out of sight, out of mind," said Cornel Martin, president and chief executive officer of the Waterways Council. "People don't know that much of the coal that gets to the coal-fired power plants travels by barge, along with steel, grains, chemicals and petroleum products. "But we have to be encouraged that there is now a focus on infrastructure." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Yeah that is a good one. I hope they do get some funding from the stimulus or something very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Jindal was painful to watch to say the least. Having heard him at other times, I'll chalk it up to having an off night. However, I did see a LOT of irony in the historic examples he used to exemplify our ability to overcome difficult times. His theme was of course 'less government' and then he went on to sight the Civil War, WWI, WWII, and the Civil Rights movement as examples of how we, as a people can overcome great obstacles on our own. And we can. It's just that each example he mentioned saw massive infusion of government dollars and policies in order to bring about the changes needed. And his rhetoric about creating jobs in Louisiana would have been better off not mentioned at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Lousiana ranks at or near the top of lost jobs per month if memory serves correctly (and I readily admit, it ain't what it used to be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 And his rhetoric about creating jobs in Louisiana would have been better off not mentioned at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Lousiana ranks at or near the top of lost jobs per month if memory serves correctly (and I readily admit, it ain't what it used to be). When I lived in Texas the joke always was "thank God for LA/MS/AL" because if not for them Texas would be considered the Third World Country of the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Then it's not a stimulus bill, but 3/4 of a massive spending behemoth - which comes at a time of a depressed GDP along with a few trillion of other dollars that are being tossed at the other problems. What concerns me is that even the smart liberals think this "stimulus bill" is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 What concerns me is that even the smart liberals think this "stimulus bill" is a good idea. Most of the actual economists seem to think it's not nearly enough spending or stimulus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Most of the actual economists seem to think it's not nearly enough spending or stimulus. Really? Most of them? Like who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Really? Most of them? Like who? http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=e...mp;aq=1&oq= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=e...mp;aq=1&oq= So you came up with Paul Krugman, James Galbraith and a bunch of bloggers. Good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 So you came up with Paul Krugman, James Galbraith and a bunch of bloggers. Good job. You know what's funny? You change his Google search from "not enough" to "too much" and the first thying that pops up is a quote from Harvard Economist Dr. Robert Barro, who states: This is probably the worst bill that has been put forward since the 1930s. I don't know what to say. I mean it's wasting a tremendous amount of money. It has some simplistic theory that I don't think will work, so I don't think the expenditure stuff is going to have the intended effect. I don't think it will expand the economy. And the tax cutting isn't really geared toward incentives. It's not really geared to lowering tax rates; it's more along the lines of throwing money at people. On both sides I think it's garbage. So in terms of balance between the two it doesn't really matter that much. But he's probably not an actual economist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 You know what's funny? You change his Google search from "not enough" to "too much" and the first thying that pops up is a quote from Harvard Economist Dr. Robert Barro, who states: But he's probably not an actual economist. But also when you plug in stimulus bill not enough you'll also get hits with stimulus bill enough. Oh these young whipper snappers think they're so smart with these new fangled machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 But also when you plug in stimulus bill not enough you'll also get hits with stimulus bill enough. Oh these young whipper snappers think they're so smart with these new fangled machines. It's not their money. What do THEY care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 It's not their money. What do THEY care? They've spelled that out real well haven't they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Anyways.. I don't know about "most economists" or not, but come on, you can't deny that there is certainly a good amount of them who say its not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 They've spelled that out real well havn't they. Even when they can't spell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Anyways.. I don't know about "most economists" or not, but come on, you can't deny that there is certainly a good amount of them who say its not enough. It's never enough when you're spending other people's money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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