Losman to stay?

[bizell]

Edwards (minus 2 games he was knocked out of) averaged 214 yards passing/ game and led the offense to 30 more yards than the losman led offense in 2006 (where he averaged 190 yards/game and finished every game).

 

If you want to determine me a Losman "hater" (which is laughable because I constantly defended him before last year) by pressing facts, be my guess. But it is clear that 2 coaching staffs were more inept when QB by Losman.

 

P.S. If you really want me to, I could do a Holcomb and Losman comparison to also demonstrate how much better the offense was with KH.

 

not to pick nits, but edwards averaged more passing attempts per game.

 

more passing attempts is usually going to translate into more yardage.

[C.Biscuit97]

No problem, but yes, you did misinterpret my post. Please try to follow along - Bill from NYC & 1billsfan both suggested that Jauron is inept and 'everything they despise in a coach'. Then, 1billsfan went further to say...

 

 

 

Now I want Edwards to succeed as much as anyone, 'cause I'm a Bills fan. I simply responded to say how unlikely it is that Edwards would ever stand up to or criticize Jauron and the coaching staff, given statements like these from Edwards...

 

"I sent a text message to him earlier in the week," Quarterback Trent Edwards told us, "and said that I've never respected a person more than I do that coach that I have. I love him to death. I love coming to work for him every day, and I'm just happy that these two years in the league, I've been able to have a boss like that."

 

OK? Now you can go back to building your Trent Edwards shrine.

 

 

Because I recognized that Losman isn't a good NFL QB and Edwards is better (please show me somewhere where I said Edwards was great), I must be a president of his fan club??? Right.

 

I had a huge crush on this girl named Meg in 3rd grade. Yet, I got so worked up I could never talked to her. Then I would see Meg holding hands with James. I still like her. Then she was hugging John. I still like her. Then there were rumors she may have kissed Michael. Finally after that, I realized Meg was no good and it was time to move on.

[Fan in Chicago]

Edwards (minus 2 games he was knocked out of) averaged 214 yards passing/ game and led the offense to 30 more yards than the losman led offense in 2006 (where he averaged 190 yards/game and finished every game).

 

If you want to determine me a Losman "hater" (which is laughable because I constantly defended him before last year) by pressing facts, be my guess. But it is clear that 2 coaching staffs were more inept when QB by Losman.

 

P.S. If you really want me to, I could do a Holcomb and Losman comparison to also demonstrate how much better the offense was with KH.

That is not the point ! I am pointing out you going off-target and digging out the opportunity to beat up on JP when clearly the topic you were responding to had a different focus.

[C.Biscuit97]

not to pick nits, but edwards averaged more passing attempts per game.

 

more passing attempts is usually going to translate into more yardage.

 

Edwards averaged 7.2 yards per pass attempt, Losman averaged 5.6.

 

They both had 39 pass attempts in a game this season, the Bills' high. Edwards had 39 against the Raiders and went for 279 (7.2 average) while Losman had 39 against the Jets and went for 148 (3.8).

 

Again, I don't hate JP. He's a good guy. But I hate nonsense and excuse-making.

[bizell]

Edwards averaged 7.2 yards per pass attempt, Losman averaged 5.6.

 

They both had 39 pass attempts in a game this season, the Bills' high. Edwards had 39 against the Raiders and went for 279 (7.2 average) while Losman had 39 against the Jets and went for 148 (3.8).

 

Again, I don't hate JP. He's a good guy. But I hate nonsense and excuse-making.

 

i thought we were comparing edwards from this year vs losman in 06? or was i mistaken?

 

Edwards (minus 2 games he was knocked out of) averaged 214 yards passing/ game and led the offense to 30 more yards than the losman led offense in 2006 (where he averaged 190 yards/game and finished every game).

 

If you want to determine me a Losman "hater" (which is laughable because I constantly defended him before last year) by pressing facts, be my guess. But it is clear that 2 coaching staffs were more inept when QB by Losman.

 

P.S. If you really want me to, I could do a Holcomb and Losman comparison to also demonstrate how much better the offense was with KH.

 

disclaimer: do not interpret me discussing this as me saying losman should be back in any way, shape, or form. i've already stated that losman ain't gonna be back.

[The Senator]

Because I recognized that Losman isn't a good NFL QB and Edwards is better (please show me somewhere where I said Edwards was great), I must be a president of his fan club??? Right.

 

I had a huge crush on this girl named Meg in 3rd grade. Yet, I got so worked up I could never talked to her. Then I would see Meg holding hands with James. I still like her. Then she was hugging John. I still like her. Then there were rumors she may have kissed Michael. Finally after that, I realized Meg was no good and it was time to move on.

Please show me where I said you said 'Edwards was great'!

 

But you do seem to react quite vociferously to any criticism of the young, unproven, injury-prone QB.

 

I think your apoplectic anti-Losman sentiment is clouding your vision - you've latched on to something I said about Edwards to morph this into another anti-JP tirade.

 

(Sorry about Meg, BTW - nothing sadder than an unrequited 3rd grade romance. You're better off without her. She was a slut.)

[/dev/null]

I had a huge crush on this girl named Meg in 3rd grade. Yet, I got so worked up I could never talked to her. Then I would see Meg holding hands with James. I still like her. Then she was hugging John. I still like her. Then there were rumors she may have kissed Michael. Finally after that, I realized Meg was no good and it was time to move on.

 

Sounds like Meg worked her way around the playground. It's a good thing you moved on, or else you might had to have been tested for cooties

[1billsfan]

How do you explain 2 coaching staffs giving up on him then??? Both Qbs that can in to replace Losman outperformed him. Is that part of this conspiracy too???

 

I love how people thing the coaches held Losman back instead of the other way around. After Losman finishes his career in Joey Harrington type role, people will owe Steve Fairchild and Jauron an apology. They made Losman look like a legit NFL QB for a season. He is a coach killer and is a turnover and sack taking machine if not handled properly. Brett Farve, he is not. The guy struggled to win consistently in Conference USA.

 

Maybe instead of the coaches handcuffing Losman, Losman handcuffed the coaches. Jauron was forced to play a guy he didn't want to play because he was a former 1st rounder. There were reports the Bills wanted Cutler, but you can't keep throwing away picks on 1st round QBs. Oh and that terrible coach Mularkey just helped Matt Ryan win Rookie of the Year. And that terrible coach Fairchild just took a team that went 7-17 in the last 2 previous years to 7 wins and a bowl win in his first season.

 

Maybe, just maybe, it wasn't 2 sets of coaching staffs? But keep making excuses for the guy. I hope for him becoming any type of NFL player he looks in the mirror and starts blaming himself. That's they only way he will ever get better.

 

 

You do realize that except for a couple of spot starts by Losman, Trent Edwards has been the starting QB for the Bills the last year and a half? The amazing thing is the longer Edwards plays the more he looks like a heaping pile of dung. Gee, I wonder why that is? It couldn't be that the offense is so pathetic that even TSW members here know every play the Bills will run before the snap now could it? However, NFL defensive coordinators could never crack the code, right?

 

It's a wonder that there are still Dick Jauron apologists out there. They seem not to get the 7 of 8 losing seasons record. That somehow his QBs were the ones who always have let him down. They buy into this perpetual notion that all Dick needs is a couple of more pieces.

 

To all of them including yourself, the notion that Dick Jauron should still be allowed to be a head coach after literally throwing up an 7 of 8 losing seasons record is as sick and twisted as someone giving JP Losman seven of eight losing seasons to prove he's a winner.

 

Losman may never be a good QB, but the guy was dead on about how putrid this coaching staff is. He spoke up about 34 games ago and the Bills offense continues to be historically bad under Edwards. But somehow it's never deemed Jauron's fault with you guys. You guys are ridiculous. Please tell us all why you think Jauron will ever become a winning coach. You might want to check out our schedule before you get back to me.

[DIE HARD 1967]

Losman is so far out of Buffalo his lawn in turning to gravel

[San Jose Bills Fan]

You do realize that except for a couple of spot starts by Losman, Trent Edwards has been the starting QB for the Bills the last year and a half? The amazing thing is the longer Edwards plays the more he looks like a heaping pile of dung. Gee, I wonder why that is? It couldn't be that the offense is so pathetic that even TSW members here know every play the Bills will run before the snap now could it? However, NFL defensive coordinators could never crack the code, right?

 

It's a wonder that there are still Dick Jauron apologists out there. They seem not to get the 7 of 8 losing seasons record. That somehow his QBs were the ones who always have let him down. They buy into this perpetual notion that all Dick needs is a couple of more pieces.

 

To all of them including yourself, the notion that Dick Jauron should still be allowed to be a head coach after literally throwing up an 7 of 8 losing seasons record is as sick and twisted as someone giving JP Losman seven of eight losing seasons to prove he's a winner.

 

Losman may never be a good QB, but the guy was dead on about how putrid this coaching staff is. He spoke up about 34 games ago and the Bills offense continues to be historically bad under Edwards. But somehow it's never deemed Jauron's fault with you guys. You guys are ridiculous. Please tell us all why you think Jauron will ever become a winning coach. You might want to check out our schedule before you get back to me.

It's a moot point. He's the coach until he's fired. Ummm, the combine is going on and free agency is right around the corner.

[Orton's Arm]

Don't count on it............... I think he will be a jet btw..........

There's a chance they'll sign him out of desperation, or as a stopgap measure. But I think the Jets are a reasonably well-run team: enough so that they won't seriously contemplate having Losman as their long-term answer at QB.

[/dev/null]

There's a chance they'll sign him out of desperation, or as a stopgap measure. But I think the Jets are a reasonably well-run team: enough so that they won't seriously contemplate having Losman as their long-term answer at QB.

 

I don't think any NFL team is contemplating having Losman as their long-term answer at QB. At best he's a placeholder for whoever drafts Stafford/Sanchez/Freeman. I doubt anybody sees him as anything more than a backup/#3 QB with some NFL experience

[Poland]

For the 1000th time:

It wasn't coaching with Losman.

If it wasn't possible to succeed with this offense then why was Edwards successful for stretches as a 2nd year player?

 

Losman has been in the league for 5 years and hasn't shown anything but the ability to throw the bomb.

He never utlized Reed like Edwards has, it was Evans or nothing.

Losman is a one dimentional quarterback who cost the Bills 3 draft picks.

He won't find much more success on another NFL team, he's rob johnson part 3.

[Poland]

Don't count on it............... I think he will be a jet btw..........

I dont think the Jets would even think of handing losman of all Qbs the starting job.

But it would be great to see it, it would give the Bills a chance to exact some revenge on that retard.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

I dont think the Jets would even think of handing losman of all Qbs the starting job.

But it would be great to see it, it would give the Bills a chance to exact some revenge on that retard.

Revenge !? The Bills moved up in the draft to get him. Who was the retard again?

[Poland]

Revenge !? The Bills moved up in the draft to get him. Who was the retard again?

Oh yeah I agree the Bills were retarded for spending 3 picks on that moron.

[1billsfan]

For the 1000th time:

It wasn't coaching with Losman.

If it wasn't possible to succeed with this offense then why was Edwards successful for stretches as a 2nd year player?

 

Losman has been in the league for 5 years and hasn't shown anything but the ability to throw the bomb.

He never utlized Reed like Edwards has, it was Evans or nothing.

Losman is a one dimentional quarterback who cost the Bills 3 draft picks.

He won't find much more success on another NFL team, he's rob johnson part 3.

 

If it's not the coaching, please tell us why did Trent Edwards suck @ss the remaining ten games of the year. You do realize that in his eight seasons as a NFL head football coach, Jauron's offenses ranked near the bottom (it averages out to be around 24th). That's eight f__ ing seasons. You guys are living in a dream world if you think it's not the head coach.

 

You also do realize it's very possible that both Losman AND the coaches sucked, don't you? Wise up and get a clue. Dick Jauron sucks monkey balls. 7 of 8 seasons worth and counting thanks to Ralph "Oops, I jumped the gun" Wilson.

[Magox]

The Bottom line is that JP failed here. A good quarterback can end up making or breaking a coach. JP's pathetic, inept, unaware play led to the departure of Mularkey and one of the few good decisions Jauron made was recognizing this. He knew that there was no way that the Bills could get to where he wanted them to go with JP under the helm.

 

I supported JP every moment he played, but it was painfully obvious that he did not have the qb awareness and feel to the game that you need in your quarterback.

 

Sure he had all the tools, the strong arm for Buffalo's howling winds, the Big play bomb that was sometimes exciting to see, the occasional scramble, but he just couldn't find the open man after his first target was taken away.

 

How many times have we seen him drop back, just to get put on his back on a crucial third down or get sacked to put us out of the redzone or out of fieldgoal range. I just never figured out why in the world could he not just throw the ball away. He lacked that internal clock, he just has no feel for the game.

 

I will say this though, that Jets game, was sad and funny in so many ways. By this time, you know what your getting in Losman. You know he has no feel, you know he has a propensity to get sacked in any situation, and there is no doubt that Jauron put Losman in a situation to fail. There is no way in this world that he should of trusted Losman in that situation.

 

We've seen the Bills on an obvious running situation, with the lead, use that play action role out and it has worked for us. The only difference is that Trent Edwards was at the helm, and let's face it, Trent has a feel for the game, and he has delivered every time that play has been called.

 

So in that situation, all Jauron's fault, he should of known that Losman has a tendancy to not see things. He should of never put him in that situation.

 

That loss was just about unpardonable for Jauron.

 

But now he is still at the helm, and hopefully he will learn, and I hope that he doesn't repeat some of the same mistakes. He does get the players to play hard and I know that this board is very rough on him, understandably. But getting your players to play hard and all out is a testament to the coach and that does make up part of the equation of having a good team.

 

It's about, Talent, skill set, coaching and heart. I believe that this team does have heart and I believe that Jauron is partly responsable for that.

[Poland]

If it's not the coaching, please tell us why did Trent Edwards suck @ss the remaining ten games of the year. You do realize that in his eight seasons as a NFL head football coach, Jauron's offenses ranked near the bottom (it averages out to be around 24th). That's eight f__ ing seasons. You guys are living in a dream world if you think it's not the head coach.

 

You also do realize it's very possible that both Losman AND the coaches sucked, don't you? Wise up and get a clue. Dick Jauron sucks monkey balls. 7 of 8 seasons worth and counting thanks to Ralph "Oops, I jumped the gun" Wilson.

With Losman it's not a situation of AND (jauron), AND would imply that Losman is better than I'm giving him cedit for.

He isn't.

Regardless of Jauron, Losman is uselss as an NFL QB.

 

Losman is a coach killer.

[Orton's Arm]

How do you explain 2 coaching staffs giving up on him then??? Both Qbs that can in to replace Losman outperformed him. Is that part of this conspiracy too???

 

I love how people thing the coaches held Losman back instead of the other way around. After Losman finishes his career in Joey Harrington type role, people will owe Steve Fairchild and Jauron an apology. They made Losman look like a legit NFL QB for a season. He is a coach killer and is a turnover and sack taking machine if not handled properly. Brett Farve, he is not. The guy struggled to win consistently in Conference USA.

 

Maybe instead of the coaches handcuffing Losman, Losman handcuffed the coaches. Jauron was forced to play a guy he didn't want to play because he was a former 1st rounder. There were reports the Bills wanted Cutler, but you can't keep throwing away picks on 1st round QBs. Oh and that terrible coach Mularkey just helped Matt Ryan win Rookie of the Year. And that terrible coach Fairchild just took a team that went 7-17 in the last 2 previous years to 7 wins and a bowl win in his first season.

 

Maybe, just maybe, it wasn't 2 sets of coaching staffs? But keep making excuses for the guy. I hope for him becoming any type of NFL player he looks in the mirror and starts blaming himself. That's they only way he will ever get better.

I agree with just about everything you've written in your post, except for the "you just can't keep throwing first round picks at QBs." I know what you meant--that Losman had been drafted fairly recently, and you hate to give up on a first round pick before giving him a full chance to prove himself. But that's exactly what the Bills should have done. The new front office should have recognized that Losman had been selected on the basis of his physical attributes, that most such quarterbacks fail, and that Losman had done nothing to show he'd be any less mentally limited than the rest of the quarterbacks in his category.

 

But mostly, I wanted to reply to point out that the Bills haven't exactly been throwing first round picks at the QB position. I went through the Bills' draft history back to 1970, and saw exactly two instances of a first round pick being used to take a QB: Jim Kelly and J.P. Losman. There were two other instances (that I know of) where a first round pick was traded away to acquire a veteran QB: Drew Bledsoe and Rob Johnson. The Rob Johnson trade was sort of like using a first round pick on drafting a QB, as Johnson was young and unproven. Had he worked out, he would have given this team years of excellent quarterbacking. The Drew Bledsoe trade was more short-sighted. Bledsoe's career had long since passed its zenith, so whatever benefit he'd provide would be relatively short-term. It's less than obvious why the GM of a 3-13 team would sacrifice his first round pick in the 2003 draft for a short term only value proposition.

 

During the '80s--when the foundation for the Bills' Super Bowl teams was laid--the Bills limited themselves to three first round picks on RBs/DBs. The three players they chose with those--Brooker Moore, Greg Bell, and Derrick Burroughs--were not exactly mainstays of the Super Bowl teams.

 

In the '90s, when the team began its decline, the Bills doubled the number of first round picks used on DBs/RBs. Six first round picks were used that decade on those positions.

 

During the 2000s--as this decline has continued--the Bills have already used five first round picks on RBs/DBs, and there are still two drafts to go before the decade is over.

 

In my opinion, the three most critical areas of a football team are the QB position, the OL and the DL. Take the first Patriots team to win the Super Bowl. Their offense featured Antowain Smith as its featured running back, and a competent but unspectacular group of WRs. But they still had a very good offense because they were strong at the QB position, and because the offensive line gave Brady plenty of time to throw.

 

You see the same thing on defense. I remember one year the Patriots won the Super Bowl despite having guys like Earthwind Moreland starting at cornerback. The primary reason for their defensive strength was their defensive line. Having a good line made it hard to run on them, and that line did an excellent job of disrupting passing plays and taking away a QB's time to throw.

 

During the 2000s, the Bills have used just one first round pick on the offensive line (Mike Williams), two first rounders on the defensive line (Erik Flowers and John McCargo) and one first rounder on the QB position (J.P. Losman). Well, two if you want to count the first round pick the Bills traded away for Bledsoe.

 

The '80s Bills used two round picks on the offensive line (Jim Ritcher and Will Wolford), one first rounder on the defensive line (Bruce Smith) and one first rounder on the QB position (Jim Kelly). Clearly, a key difference between the two teams is that the '80s Bills drafted better players at those three key areas than have the 2000s Bills.

 

It's easy to say that the 2000s' Bills should have done a better job of drafting players at those three key positions. But why haven't they? While there are several factors at work, possibly the single most important is the short-sightedness that is the hallmark of recent front offices. One indication of that short-sightedness is the last two decades' strong emphasis on RBs and DBs. Buffalo's DBs--especially its first round CBs--go first contract and out. Running backs--usually even guys taken in the first round--typically have short careers. However, both running backs and DBs are often expected to play, and play well, as rookies. At many other positions, a player generally needs at least two years to become effective. The post-Super Bowl era emphasis on RBs and DBs is indicative of a front office that wants to improve right away, even if it means the first round picks will not necessarily be useful for the long haul.

 

This short-sightedness hurts the team in a number of (sometimes less than obvious) ways. Take the 2006 draft, for example. The new front office and new coaching staff evidently decided the team had to be improved right away. While there was no realistic hope of making the 2006 Bills a good team, the plan, as best I understand it, was to at very least have a decent defense. And it was felt that filling the holes at DT and SS was the most important part of being able to put a decent defense on the field for the 2006 season. Therefore, the Bills went into the 2006 draft with the decision to take a SS and a DT with their first two picks.

 

Suppose that, instead of being focused on the immediate needs of the 2006 season, the front office had instead thought in terms of putting together the long-term pieces of a winning team. They would have gone into the draft with the realization that many positions were areas of need. The plan would have been to fill a few holes in 2006, a few more in 2007, etc. The emphasis would not have been on filling the "most important" holes first, but on getting the very best football players possible when a hole was finally filled. If DT is a position of need, for example, and the best you can do is John McCargo, maybe it would be better to wait until the following year's draft to see if a better player comes along. In the meantime, you use your first round pick on some other position of need, even if that other need isn't as critical or urgent as the DT need.

 

Had the Bills followed this approach, they would not have gone into the 2006 draft with a tunnel vision-like focus on the SS and DT positions. For instance, the Bills might have taken Cutler at #8. A good quarterback is more important than a good SS, QB was a position of need, and Cutler is a better football player than Whitner. And then, after they'd traded back into the first round, they could have taken Mangold instead of McCargo. (Mangold went a few picks after McCargo, and is now one of the best centers in the league.) This wouldn't necessarily have been the best thing for the short-term, because quarterbacks and offensive linemen generally take longer to develop than safeties. But over the long-term, the Bills would clearly have improved more with Cutler + Mangold than with Whitner + McCargo. (And no, this isn't 20/20 hindsight, because I'd suggested, before the draft, that the Bills either take Cutler or trade down and take Mangold. It turns out they could have had both players--had they not been so urgent about filling the holes at SS and DT.)

 

There's another, hidden benefit to using your high picks on players that take a couple years to develop. While your rookie quarterback or rookie offensive lineman is going through his difficult (and painful) adjustment to the NFL, your team is losing a lot of games. If you're in rebuilding mode anyway (as the Bills clearly were in 2006), you're better off going 2-14 and getting a very high draft pick/blue chip player. Having your first season in the rebuilding era be a 7-9 season pushes you down in the draft, causing you to get a lesser player. If the Bills had lost just another game or two in 2006, the 2007 draft could have yielded Adrian Peterson instead of Marshawn Lynch.

 

This front office has done positive things over the last several years. This is a younger, better football team than the one inherited from Tom Donahoe. But too little progress has been made, due to the kinds of avoidable errors described above. Three years into a rebuilding program, a 7-9 record against a soft schedule is at least mildly disappointing. Hopefully, this front office will take a more disciplined/long-term approach to the upcoming draft.