It is a problem to lose decent players to free agency

[jahnyc]

It really unfortunate that the Bills have lost some decent players over the last few years via free agency, including Winfield, Clements and Pat Williams. Greer appears to be next (and Crowell, if he is healthy), and maybe McGee next year. What are the ramifications? Constantly trying to replace talent rather than upgrading talent. This problem is magnified since the Bills have received nothing for the loss of these players (other than possibly a supplemental draft choice or two). Have many teams lost this number of quality players over the last four years or so?

 

It is interesting that while the Bills currently have one All Pro player (Peters, which is subject to much debate), Winfield and Williams have been named All Pro since departing the Bills. One positive--whoever scouts cbs for the Bills has done a good job. Winfield, Clements and McGee are all better than average, Greer is probably as well, and McKelvin seems to have much potential. Not a bad record for drafting corner backs.

[FluffHead]

They need to learn how to draft a good QB. That will make things a lot better very quickly.

[BillsVet]

It really unfortunate that the Bills have lost some decent players over the last few years via free agency, including Winfield, Clements and Pat Williams. Greer appears to be next (and Crowell, if he is healthy), and maybe McGee next year. What are the ramifications? Constantly trying to replace talent rather than upgrading talent. This problem is magnified since the Bills have received nothing for the loss of these players (other than possibly a supplemental draft choice or two). Have many teams lost this number of quality players over the last four years or so?

 

It is interesting that while the Bills currently have one All Pro player (Peters, which is subject to much debate), Winfield and Williams have been named All Pro since departing the Bills. One positive--whoever scouts cbs for the Bills has done a good job. Winfield, Clements and McGee are all better than average, Greer is probably as well, and McKelvin seems to have much potential. Not a bad record for drafting corner backs.

 

Forget it. Talking about losing players like Greer without compensation is too much for some people. Building a NFL team is a big picture type of conversation that loses too many before it even starts.

 

Many have already pointed out that most of our top picks are replacements for players allowed to leave in UFA. Usually, people bite on a given reason why one player needed to go, but rarely can someone show how in the long term it was a good move. From a team building perspective, Buffalo has used 3 firsts and a second rounder in 3 drafts to replace players who were already performing well but allowed to leave. They dumped Milloy for Whitner, traded McGahee and drafted Lynch, allowed Fletcher to go and drafted Posluszny, and finally let Nate Clements go only to draft McKelvin a year later.

 

It's little wonder they've been mediocre year after year. But try telling that to the residents of TSW who believe a few more players in UFA and the draft will put this team into the playoffs and over the likes of Parcells, Belichick, and the Jets. Regardless of who's on the team, it's going to be an issue overcoming the HC and his unimaginative gameplans.

[Tcali]

Forget it. Talking about losing players like Greer without compensation is too much for some people. Building a NFL team is a big picture type of conversation that loses too many before it even starts.

 

Many have already pointed out that most of our top picks are replacements for players allowed to leave in UFA. Usually, people bite on a given reason why one player needed to go, but rarely can someone show how in the long term it was a good move. From a team building perspective, Buffalo has used 3 firsts and a second rounder in 3 drafts to replace players who were already performing well but allowed to leave. They dumped Milloy for Whitner, traded McGahee and drafted Lynch, allowed Fletcher to go and drafted Posluszny, and finally let Nate Clements go only to draft McKelvin a year later.

 

It's little wonder they've been mediocre year after year. But try telling that to the residents of TSW who believe a few more players in UFA and the draft will put this team into the playoffs and over the likes of Parcells, Belichick, and the Jets. Regardless of who's on the team, it's going to be an issue overcoming the HC and his unimaginative gameplans.

while our HC is a walking mediocrity.....I still dont think that even Belichek could do a lot with our D front 7.Yes he probbly woulda got us into the playoffs this year...But with a real schedule like we will be facingh this year..we need some DEs and some better LBs.

[BillsVet]

while our HC is a walking mediocrity.....I still dont think that even Belichek could do a lot with our D front 7.Yes he probbly woulda got us into the playoffs this year...But with a real schedule like we will be facingh this year..we need some DEs and some better LBs.

 

The point is not what another HC, it's why this team allows quality veteran players to leave and replaces them with high draft picks.

 

The Bills have been rebuilding since the 06 offseason. And so far, the results haven't been much to write home about. Yet, the same people who have been making decisions which currently have the team coming off another 7-9 season are still the ones doing it now.

 

It's more than who lines up at DE or LB, but team building to get this team into the playoffs. Miami and Atlanta both took teams with a shortage of talent and got them into the playoffs through two of the toughest divisions in football.

[8-8 Forever?]

when a quality bills player reaches the end of their 1st NFL contract, say yr 4 or 5, they leave. why? more $$ elsewhere, better place to live, better organization. the rock stars of today's nfl don't want to be in a middle of the road, glad-we-just-have-a-team situation... if the money is just as good elsewhere, why the hell would you stay in f ing buffalo... geez, this is simple..

[Pirate Angel]

They need to learn how to draft a good QB. That will make things a lot better very quickly.

To draft a good QB we have to be worse than average, how many of us can stomach a 1-15, 3-13 season to get into the top 5 picks in the draft? usually you have to be really bad in order to get really good.

[billsfreak]

Yeah it sucks, but it is what every team in the NFL faces each and every year, especially with a salary cap. That is why ownership, management and personnel decisions are more important in the NFL now than it ever has been, and exactly why we can't get out of the second division. The Patriots won 11 games last year and had what, 3 or 4 players left from thier first Superbowl win? Other than Manning and Harrison, the Colts have rolled over almost their whole roster, but they are in the playoffs every year (remember Polian?). The teams that don't ever win (like us) are a direct reflection on their ownership, management, personnel and coaching as much as it is on the players on the team.

[billsfreak]

To draft a good QB we have to be worse than average, how many of us can stomach a 1-15, 3-13 season to get into the top 5 picks in the draft? usually you have to be really bad in order to get really good.

That is totally not true. There have been just as many good QBs drafted low in the draft as there has been in the first few picks. So many of the QBs drafted up top have been total busts, i.e. Couch, Harrington, A. Smith, etc.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

when a quality bills player reaches the end of their 1st NFL contract, say yr 4 or 5, they leave. why? more $$ elsewhere, better place to live, better organization. the rock stars of today's nfl don't want to be in a middle of the road, glad-we-just-have-a-team situation... if the money is just as good elsewhere, why the hell would you stay in f ing buffalo... geez, this is simple..

 

You can't name more than three players that left for that reason. Yes it's true certain guys wouldn't come here, no different than there are certain guys we wouldn't invite. I think there have been enough players around the league past and present for there to be an understanding of what it's like to play for Buffalo. Buffalo is a great football city to play in, if the player lives up to his potential, works hard, does the right thing, and is a good team mate.

 

Ask Stroud if he liked playing for the Jaguars better. I'll answer for him no. Have you ever been to Jacksonville? Piss off on your comments.

[2003Contenders]

It really is a catch-22, isn't it? And I can't fault the front office too much. While it was a mistake to let Big Pat walk, he was on the backside of 30 at the time he filed for free agency. As much as I liked both Winfield and Clements, they both knew that they were going to get monster deals in the open market, which is why both of them left. You can argue that the Bills should have been more preventative in their contract negotiations and signed these guys to long-term deals BEFORE they became free agents. How's that worked with the Jason Peters situation?

 

It will be REALLY interesting to see how the market goes. With the sagging economy, some of these guys may actually NOT get the huge contracts they are expecting. Also, with the CBA set to run out next year and uncertainties about the future... If Major League Baseball is any indication, there could be good value available to teams that are prudent and PATIENT.

[Lurker]

It really unfortunate that the Bills have lost some decent players over the last few years via free agency, including Winfield, Clements and Pat Williams. Greer appears to be next (and Crowell, if he is healthy

Moot argument. Greer and Crowell are nowhere near the players Winfield, Clements and Pfat Pat were/are...

[silvermike]

The Bills biggest problem isn't that they've let too many players go in free agency, it's that they've let the WRONG players go, and come up short trying to find starters on day 2 of the draft and in free agency. It's inevitable that you can't sign everyone who comes up every year - and all teams find themselves losing a player or two every year they'd like to keep around. But what good teams do is identify the players on the roster who must be retained, and keep them. The Bills haven't had the talent to even bother with those decisions.

 

The most stinging losses - Williams, Winfield, and Clements - were all on the team by 2001. In the past 8 years, the Bills have acquired virtually no star talent besides Lee Evans and Jason Peters. QB has been a bust, RB has seen two above-average backs come through, TE is a wasteland, we've been looking for a 1-2 WR combo since Andre Reed retired, the offensive line remains average at best, the defensive line finally saw some light with Stroud but it's been buried under the Kelsays and Denneys of the world, the LB corps is nothing to write home about, the CBs are deep but unremarkable, and then you get to the Whitner fiasco.

[spartacus]

It really is a catch-22, isn't it? And I can't fault the front office too much. While it was a mistake to let Big Pat walk, he was on the backside of 30 at the time he filed for free agency. As much as I liked both Winfield and Clements, they both knew that they were going to get monster deals in the open market, which is why both of them left. You can argue that the Bills should have been more preventative in their contract negotiations and signed these guys to long-term deals BEFORE they became free agents. How's that worked with the Jason Peters situation?

 

It will be REALLY interesting to see how the market goes. With the sagging economy, some of these guys may actually NOT get the huge contracts they are expecting. Also, with the CBA set to run out next year and uncertainties about the future... If Major League Baseball is any indication, there could be good value available to teams that are prudent and PATIENT.

 

sure players may leave if their demands are outrageous- however, the franchise tag allows the Bills to get additional draft picks for those few players are too expensive.

 

 

Winfield, Clements, Greeer, etc all will be gone with nothing in return- thus forcing the Bills waste premium picks and resources to just tread water and replace experienced talent.

 

The team building strategy has been proven to be a treadmill to nowhere.

 

Go Russ - use that baseball expertise - too bad the Bills have no talent evaluators to match Larry Beinfest of the Marlins

[Pneumonic]

Letting players leave is part of the biz. You have no choice when you are capped as the league is.

 

The key is being able to replace those players by coaching up the youngsters. The best franchises have coaching staffs in place that can do this and don't suffer from losing top players who are allowed to leave. Take the Pats for example. They have allowed Bledsoe, Milloy, Law, Samuel, McGinest, Branch, and Vinatieri to all leave yet they continued on in stride because they had superior people in place to coach up the replacements.

[billnutinphoenix]

They need to learn how to draft a good QB. That will make things a lot better very quickly.

 

 

also they need to learn how to draft DE's

[Bill from NYC]

also they need to learn how to draft DE's

 

And DTs, TEs, OCs and OTs.

[BuffaloBill]

Letting players leave is part of the biz. You have no choice when you are capped as the league is.

 

The key is being able to replace those players by coaching up the youngsters. The best franchises have coaching staffs in place that can do this and don't suffer from losing top players who are allowed to leave. Take the Pats for example. They have allowed Bledsoe, Milloy, Law, Samuel, McGinest, Branch, and Vinatieri to all leave yet they continued on in stride because they had superior people in place to coach up the replacements.

 

 

Agreed ... sometimes teams will overpay for your "good" players (Jonas Jennings comes to mind). You also do not want to end up in cap hell because you are overpaying for non-performers or worse carrying dead cap weight for players not on your roster. There is a balance to be struck. Look at the mess the Colts are about to get into due to poor management of the cap and carrying players too long.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

The franchise tag only works if the player is worth that type of money. In Greer's case, he's not so you don't tag him. Otherwise you're in a situation like NE is when Cassell signed the tag. If Greer had been tagged, I'm sure he'd have take nall of 4 minutes to sign the offer sheet. Clements, Winfield, yeah maybe, however in Clements case, the Bills i.e. Levy agreed after tagging him the year prior not to do it again. You could argue that a real GM would have said ole well too bad, we're gonna tag you anyway.

 

Tagging Clements after agreeing not to, really shows a strong ethical front office. That's the way to get players lining up at the door to sign here. You can certainly argue it's just busniess and the Bills's could have done that. But it doesn't impress soon to be free agents or others.

 

You want to argue that the Bill's front office are poor talent evaluators, fine. But for their part, the people they let walk got contracts paying them much more than they were worth, so I'd say they did a pretty good job there. As was pointed out, every team loses players who go on to sign inflated contracts with other teams. The Bills are no better or worse. The question is when these players leave, who do you replace them with? That's an area you can argue the Bill's have been weak. Even there, is it the players or the coaching?

 

 

sure players may leave if their demands are outrageous- however, the franchise tag allows the Bills to get additional draft picks for those few players are too expensive.

 

 

Winfield, Clements, Greeer, etc all will be gone with nothing in return- thus forcing the Bills waste premium picks and resources to just tread water and replace experienced talent.

 

The team building strategy has been proven to be a treadmill to nowhere.

 

Go Russ - use that baseball expertise - too bad the Bills have no talent evaluators to match Larry Beinfest of the Marlins

[Spiderweb]

You can't name more than three players that left for that reason. Yes it's true certain guys wouldn't come here, no different than there are certain guys we wouldn't invite. I think there have been enough players around the league past and present for there to be an understanding of what it's like to play for Buffalo. Buffalo is a great football city to play in, if the player lives up to his potential, works hard, does the right thing, and is a good team mate.

 

Ask Stroud if he liked playing for the Jaguars better. I'll answer for him no. Have you ever been to Jacksonville? Piss off on your comments.

I'll bet he liked having Henderson besides him better than Williams.....