Chris Brown (of the bills website)

[BillsVet]

Today he talks about how Jordan Gross' contract from the Panthers is four times the size of Jason Peters' deal just three years ago. Unfortunately, he leaves a few details out. It's accurate that Gross' 6 yr 60M deal w/30M guaranteed is 4x the size of Peters' 5 yr 15M deal, but there's one thing he's missing:

 

Peters was not a Pro Bowl OT until the 07 season, and he was strictly playing RT in 05 until the second half of 06. He didn't move to LT and play well begin outplaying that deal until the latter part of 06 and entire 07 season. Gross has been playing LT for a few seasons and has was an All-Pro in 2008.

 

Most of what comes out of OBD is propaganda directed at casual fans who don't research or pay close enough attention to know.

 

Earlier, wrote on Turk(ey) Schonert's thoughts on "wasted" timeouts. Schonert said that NE wasted one against Buffalo in the first half, and he worked for Bill Walsh, etcetera. It's kinda like saying I watch film 80 hours a week, so nobody should criticize me.

 

Frankly, Schonert shouldn't have any arrogance after the clunkers he called after starting 5-1. Trent didn't play well, but he's a 2nd yr QB who was working under someone with 20+ years in the NFL.

[thebandit27]

Today he talks about how Jordan Gross' contract from the Panthers is four times the size of Jason Peters' deal just three years ago. Unfortunately, he leaves a few details out. It's accurate that Gross' 6 yr 60M deal w/30M guaranteed is 4x the size of Peters' 5 yr 15M deal, but there's one thing he's missing:

 

Peters was not a Pro Bowl OT until the 07 season, and he was strictly playing RT in 05 until the second half of 06. He didn't move to LT and play well begin outplaying that deal until the latter part of 06 and entire 07 season. Gross has been playing LT for a few seasons and has was an All-Pro in 2008.

 

Most of what comes out of OBD is propaganda directed at casual fans who don't research or pay close enough attention to know.

 

Earlier, wrote on Turk(ey) Schonert's thoughts on "wasted" timeouts. Schonert said that NE wasted one against Buffalo in the first half, and he worked for Bill Walsh, etcetera. It's kinda like saying I watch film 80 hours a week, so nobody should criticize me.

 

Frankly, Schonert shouldn't have any arrogance after the clunkers he called after starting 5-1. Trent didn't play well, but he's a 2nd yr QB who was working under someone with 20+ years in the NFL.

 

I'm not defending Chris Brown here, I actually don't care for him very much. However, to be fair--and I'm surprised you didn't mention this since you obviously did some research on your point--Gross started his career on the right side as a rookie, moved to the left side his 2nd year, moved back to the right side in year 3 with Travelle Wharton taking over at left tackle (the team wasn't happy with Gross' performance), and then shifted back to the left side when the team drafted Jeff Otah last year and moved Wharton to left guard.

 

So for Gross to be getting $60M with 2 seasons at each tackle spot under his belt and one pro bowl nod is actually a very applicable comparison for Peters' current contract situation. I think, based on their careers, it's pretty much an apples-to-apples comparison.

[Ray]

Although I bet he did not give up 13 sacks last year like our LT.

The problem people have here paying Peters so much is that he has had one good year and giving someone 9-10M a year for one good year is VERY risky especially for a small market team that when they take big bets has to win the vast majority of time.

The problem is that you could have gotten the saem production you got out of Peters last year as moving Walker over to the LT like they did when he was holding out.

[QB Bills]

Not only that, but this fool beat up Rihanna.

 

http://www.tmz.com/2009/02/20/rihanna-photo-face-beating/

[Mr. WEO]

Although I bet he did not give up 13 sacks last year like our LT.

The problem people have here paying Peters so much is that he has had one good year and giving someone 9-10M a year for one good year is VERY risky especially for a small market team that when they take big bets has to win the vast majority of time.

The problem is that you could have gotten the saem production you got out of Peters last year as moving Walker over to the LT like they did when he was holding out.

 

Ray's right. Walker could not have done worse.

 

So it sounds like Gross is grossly overpaid, so we should do the same with Peters?

[Cookiemonster]

Not only that, but this fool beat up Rihanna.

 

http://www.tmz.com/2009/02/20/rihanna-photo-face-beating/

Yeah man, I just saw the bruises, why doesn't he pick on someone his own size & gender?

[thebandit27]

Yeah man, I just saw the bruises, why doesn't he pick on someone his own size & gender?

 

Wow guys, that joke is in pretty poor taste, even for this message board.

[2003Contenders]

I wouldn't beat up on Brown too much here.

 

I think with the Gross versus Peters thing, he is trying to give us an idea of the kind of money that Peters and his agent are going to demand. Peters is going to remind the team that he has been named to the Pro Bowl in each of the past two seasons and should be paid like one of the top LTs in the league.

 

As for the Turk interview, in a way (and maybe I am reading too much into it), by putting what all Turk said out there, Brown really isn't doing him any favors. Turk comes off as a insecure, dim-witted jerk.

[BillsVet]

As for the Turk interview, in a way (and maybe I am reading too much into it), by putting what all Turk said out there, Brown really isn't doing him any favors. Turk comes off as a insecure, dim-witted jerk.

 

And this is the guy that is supposed to be calling the plays? I agree he comes off as an insecure, dim-witted jerk.

 

There's a reason he wasn't ever offered an OC job, despite acting as a QB coach for TB, NYG, CAR, and BUF (2x)

 

Scary.

[VJ91]

Today he talks about how Jordan Gross' contract from the Panthers is four times the size of Jason Peters' deal just three years ago. Unfortunately, he leaves a few details out. It's accurate that Gross' 6 yr 60M deal w/30M guaranteed is 4x the size of Peters' 5 yr 15M deal, but there's one thing he's missing:

 

Peters was not a Pro Bowl OT until the 07 season, and he was strictly playing RT in 05 until the second half of 06. He didn't move to LT and play well begin outplaying that deal until the latter part of 06 and entire 07 season. Gross has been playing LT for a few seasons and has was an All-Pro in 2008.

 

Most of what comes out of OBD is propaganda directed at casual fans who don't research or pay close enough attention to know.

 

Earlier, wrote on Turk(ey) Schonert's thoughts on "wasted" timeouts. Schonert said that NE wasted one against Buffalo in the first half, and he worked for Bill Walsh, etcetera. It's kinda like saying I watch film 80 hours a week, so nobody should criticize me.

 

Frankly, Schonert shouldn't have any arrogance after the clunkers he called after starting 5-1. Trent didn't play well, but he's a 2nd yr QB who was working under someone with 20+ years in the NFL.

 

Jason Peters made a mistake signing that contract - he and his agent never realized how much starting left tackles were worth, or they underestimated Peters' own talent. That said, for the inner-circle jerks to sit around and congratulate themselves on saving a ton of money by getting Peters to sign that contract, instead of rewarding him for becoming the 2 time Pro Bowl left tackle he has become, is a huge mistake on their part. You know the old saying, two wrongs don't make a right. The inner circle jerks need to re-do Peters' contract before training camp this season, or trade him if they don't think he is worth Jordan Gross, or even Derek Dockery money this season.

[Magox]

I don't care what any of you Peters bashers say. He is the 6th highest paid lineman on the team and he is the best player on the team. hmmmm

 

doesn't make sense. The Bills made a huge mistake letting this happen. They should of approached after the 2007 season, gave him a fair contract, and none of this would of ever of been an issue.

 

All the people who say,"he signed the contract, he has to play through it" really don't understand too much how the NFL works.

 

If you worked for a company, and you knew that you were the most valuable employee for the company, and there were 6 other guys that held a similar position that you hold and were getting paid more than you. You would do something about it, and if not, then in my view your a spineless wimp who doesn't know how to ask for what is rightfully yours. Sure you "honored" your contract, and fans will respect that, but that doesn't secure your future. The pay does.

 

The Bills should of restructured his contract, and they did not have the forsight to do so, and as a result we had a player that was a malcontent, and we got a shotty performance from him, by his standards.

 

So chris Brown, was right on about the comparison regarding the Peters Gross comparison.

 

Give me a break. Gross 4x higher pay. Thats Insane!

[OrangeJuiceSimpson]

I don't care what any of you Peters bashers say. He is the 6th highest paid lineman on the team and he is the best player on the team. hmmmm

 

doesn't make sense. The Bills made a huge mistake letting this happen. They should of approached after the 2007 season, gave him a fair contract, and none of this would of ever of been an issue.

 

All the people who say,"he signed the contract, he has to play through it" really don't understand too much how the NFL works.

 

If you worked for a company, and you knew that you were the most valuable employee for the company, and there were 6 other guys that held a similar position that you hold and were getting paid more than you. You would do something about it, and if not, then in my view your a spineless wimp who doesn't know how to ask for what is rightfully yours. Sure you "honored" your contract, and fans will respect that, but that doesn't secure your future. The pay does.

 

The Bills should of restructured his contract, and they did not have the forsight to do so, and as a result we had a player that was a malcontent, and we got a shotty performance from him, by his standards.

 

So chris Brown, was right on about the comparison regarding the Peters Gross comparison.

 

Give me a break. Gross 4x higher pay. Thats Insane!

 

I would be all for making him the highest paid lineman on the team but it's not that simple. This contract could be near twelve million a year for a guy that has only had one stellar season and has had some injury issues.

 

And yes he does have to honor his contract. That's what a contract is. This guy was undrafted and the Bills gave him a shot and an extension. If he wanted it he would have came out this past season and played his ass off for it.

 

This guy gave his team the silent treatment when he wanted a new contract. If you were the 6th highest paid employee in your office would you not show up to work and make your boss figure it out? Or would you request a raise and keep showing him how valuable you are?

 

And I'm so sick of hearing about these guys securing their future. This guy is a millionaire. He's not collecting food stamps anytime soon.

[Magox]

I would be all for making him the highest paid lineman on the team but it's not that simple. This contract could be near twelve million a year for a guy that has only had one stellar season and has had some injury issues.

 

And yes he does have to honor his contract. That's what a contract is. This guy was undrafted and the Bills gave him a shot and an extension. If he wanted it he would have came out this past season and played his ass off for it.

 

This guy gave his team the silent treatment when he wanted a new contract. If you were the 6th highest paid employee in your office would you not show up to work and make your boss figure it out? Or would you request a raise and keep showing him how valuable you are?

 

And I'm so sick of hearing about these guys securing their future. This guy is a millionaire. He's not collecting food stamps anytime soon.

I hear what your saying, but that is'nt how the real NFL world works.

 

It is unreasonable for him to play out 3 more years of his contract, being SEVERELY underpaid. He is a big, probably not that bright of a football player, and his last agent made a HUGE mistake by havng him sign an undervalued contract. Please, enough of the Bills were "generous" and gave him an extension talk. They were not generous, they got a STEAL out of it.

 

He did the right thing. He fired his agent and hired one of the best in the business. Do you really believe that it was his idea to sit out the training camp? Of course not, it was his superstar Agent.

 

Please, let's not pretend to say that we would behave like good little boyscouts and be not even in the top 5 on your team in pay at a position similar to yours without you having any beef. Think about it, people with his skill set are getting payed %300 -%500 more pay than he is, and heis suppose to just sit there and accept it for the next three years. I don't think so. He could get injured and there goes his future big contract,just because he was a good little boy scout..

 

Your question about what would I do? If My boss was benefiting off of me, and I knew that he knew that, and I saw that there were many other people inferior to me, that brought the company less money in than I did, and were getting payed as much as %150 more than me, and he wasn't willing to work out a deal with me, and jerking me around, then HELL YA!! I would play hard ball. Because if he doesn't pay me my fair value, then I will go to a company that values me, and shows me that they value me by paying me fair value.

 

As far as you being sick of "these" guys securing their future. That is an argumnt that doesn't fly with me or the restof the NFL. DOn't be counting his chips, this is what the NFL pays their players. Everything is about fair pay, and what fair market value is. Just because he has Millions doesn't mean he doesn't have a right to get paid fair value, and if fair value is Millions more, then so be it.

[OrangeJuiceSimpson]

I hear what your saying, but that is'nt how the real NFL world works.

 

It is unreasonable for him to play out 3 more years of his contract, being SEVERELY underpaid. He is a big, probably not that bright of a football player, and his last agent made a HUGE mistake by havng him sign an undervalued contract. Please, enough of the Bills were "generous" and gave him an extension talk. They were not generous, they got a STEAL out of it.

 

He did the right thing. He fired his agent and hired one of the best in the business. Do you really believe that it was his idea to sit out the training camp? Of course not, it was his superstar Agent.

 

Please, let's not pretend to say that we would behave like good little boyscouts and be not even in the top 5 on your team in pay at a position similar to yours without you having any beef. Think about it, people with his skill set are getting payed %300 -%500 more pay than he is, and heis suppose to just sit there and accept it for the next three years. I don't think so. He could get injured and there goes his future big contract,just because he was a good little boy scout..

 

Your question about what would I do? If My boss was benefiting off of me, and I knew that he knew that, and I saw that there were many other people inferior to me, that brought the company less money in than I did, and were getting payed as much as %150 more than me, and he wasn't willing to work out a deal with me, and jerking me around, then HELL YA!! I would play hard ball. Because if he doesn't pay me my fair value, then I will go to a company that values me, and shows me that they value me by paying me fair value.

 

As far as you being sick of "these" guys securing their future. That is an argumnt that doesn't fly with me or the restof the NFL. DOn't be counting his chips, this is what the NFL pays their players. Everything is about fair pay, and what fair market value is. Just because he has Millions doesn't mean he doesn't have a right to get paid fair value, and if fair value is Millions more, then so be it.

 

I know what you mean. And I do think he is underpaid. I just think if he wanted his payday he should have been more motivated than ever to do it this season. I would love to pay him around 8 million a year right now. But I don't think that is a figure we can sign him for. If he can make it through this season and he actually plays like a pro bowl LT I'm all for making him the highest paid LT in the NFL. But I don't think he has proven it yet.

[BillsVet]

Jason Peters made a mistake signing that contract - he and his agent never realized how much starting left tackles were worth, or they underestimated Peters' own talent. That said, for the inner-circle jerks to sit around and congratulate themselves on saving a ton of money by getting Peters to sign that contract, instead of rewarding him for becoming the 2 time Pro Bowl left tackle he has become, is a huge mistake on their part. You know the old saying, two wrongs don't make a right. The inner circle jerks need to re-do Peters' contract before training camp this season, or trade him if they don't think he is worth Jordan Gross, or even Derek Dockery money this season.

 

IIRC, Peters hired Eugene Parker about a year after signing that deal. I don't think he was advised all that well, and re-signing him was one of the best moves the Levy front office made.

 

Parker obviously figured out that he had the skills to be a top LT in this league.

 

Gross' contract probably sets the standard for what Peters will receive-whether from Buffalo or someone else. While I've never been an advocate of demanding to renegotiate a contract, it's clear he's not playing this season on that contract. To the average blue collar fan like most of us, it seems ridiculous. But these guys have a limited window to make their money and then it's gone.

 

He's the best OL on the team by far and avoiding a pay day tells me the Bills aren't serious about winning.

 

As for Chris Brown, of Bills Website fame, I know it's his job to hype the team and don't begrudge him for doing his job. But not having a little criticism of DJ for being in the NFL 30+ years and being such a poor gameday manager. Inexcusable.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

I hear what your saying, but that is'nt how the real NFL world works.

 

It is unreasonable for him to play out 3 more years of his contract, being SEVERELY underpaid. He is a big, probably not that bright of a football player, and his last agent made a HUGE mistake by havng him sign an undervalued contract. Please, enough of the Bills were "generous" and gave him an extension talk. They were not generous, they got a STEAL out of it.

 

He did the right thing. He fired his agent and hired one of the best in the business. Do you really believe that it was his idea to sit out the training camp? Of course not, it was his superstar Agent.

 

Please, let's not pretend to say that we would behave like good little boyscouts and be not even in the top 5 on your team in pay at a position similar to yours without you having any beef. Think about it, people with his skill set are getting payed %300 -%500 more pay than he is, and heis suppose to just sit there and accept it for the next three years. I don't think so. He could get injured and there goes his future big contract,just because he was a good little boy scout..

 

Your question about what would I do? If My boss was benefiting off of me, and I knew that he knew that, and I saw that there were many other people inferior to me, that brought the company less money in than I did, and were getting payed as much as %150 more than me, and he wasn't willing to work out a deal with me, and jerking me around, then HELL YA!! I would play hard ball. Because if he doesn't pay me my fair value, then I will go to a company that values me, and shows me that they value me by paying me fair value.

 

As far as you being sick of "these" guys securing their future. That is an argumnt that doesn't fly with me or the restof the NFL. DOn't be counting his chips, this is what the NFL pays their players. Everything is about fair pay, and what fair market value is. Just because he has Millions doesn't mean he doesn't have a right to get paid fair value, and if fair value is Millions more, then so be it.

 

You're wrong, they paid him based on potential which was generous. Then he became a very good player, is that the Bills fault? I for one see both sides point of view and think both have an argument, and both have acted foolishly. But come off the Bills got a steal because Peter's agent was an idiot.

[Mr. WEO]

His new agent advised him poorly.

 

He was under contract (renegotiated) and he had absolutely NO leverage, yet he held out.

 

He subsequently arrived in poor shape, had a mediocre year. Way to negotiate!

 

Saying he is, by far, our best O-lineman is either a derogatory statement about our line or the value of LTs in general.

 

If he's one of the best, how we know what an average LT looks like?

 

And stop with the Pro Bowl nonsense.

[Thurman#1]

Today he talks about how Jordan Gross' contract from the Panthers is four times the size of Jason Peters' deal just three years ago. Unfortunately, he leaves a few details out. It's accurate that Gross' 6 yr 60M deal w/30M guaranteed is 4x the size of Peters' 5 yr 15M deal, but there's one thing he's missing:

 

Peters was not a Pro Bowl OT until the 07 season, and he was strictly playing RT in 05 until the second half of 06. He didn't move to LT and play well begin outplaying that deal until the latter part of 06 and entire 07 season. Gross has been playing LT for a few seasons and has was an All-Pro in 2008.

 

 

He didn't "miss" it. He's not required to make YOUR argument, especially when your point is obvious and already understood by pretty much everyone.

 

The point he is making is that Gross is a star LT and so is Peters and looking at the fact that they do the same work, and in fact Peters does it quite a bit better when he has attended training camp, they ought to be paid somewhere in the same ballpark.

[Thurman#1]

Although I bet he did not give up 13 sacks last year like our LT.

The problem people have here paying Peters so much is that he has had one good year and giving someone 9-10M a year for one good year is VERY risky especially for a small market team that when they take big bets has to win the vast majority of time.

The problem is that you could have gotten the saem production you got out of Peters last year as moving Walker over to the LT like they did when he was holding out.

 

 

Actually, he'd had nothing but great years since he became a starter on the o-line. He had played LT for one and a half years, not one year, and performed sensationally that whole time. It was not as if he had had a bad period to compare it to, at least till the conflict caused him to miss training camp last year. He also performed very well at the end of last year when he had figured out the new signals and gotten used to working with Dockery again.

 

When Walker was at LT, the entire line shifted left to help cover up for him. When Peters had gone to training camp in 2007, he played all alone on an island, with the other linemen NOT shifting left to help. Maybe two or three other LTs in the league are good enough to do that. It is a HUGE advantage, an advantage we do not have when Peters doesn't play.

 

Virtually nobody at OBD thinks Peters would do a bad job, or that giving him a raise would be a risk. It wouldn't be a risk at all. The Bills purpose was to save money, and that's fair enough, but you have to understand that as conditions in the league stand now, a large percentage of the players in the league would do the same thing that Peters did.

[lets_go_bills]

The Peters debate rages on, but I think the Bills should just pay him. He'll shut up, be in camp and play. Locking him up secures Trent's blindside for the next 6-8 years. I think if he gets his money he'll return to his true pro bowl form and blossom into the premier LT in this league.