colin Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 You know, I have heard a few announcers on Sirius say that he is the best corner in the NFL. For the sake of this conversation, let's assume that he is. I am still going to make the case that this was the dumbest signing that I have ever seen in all my years of being a football fan. I know nothing about that local economy, but I imagine that it sucks, and if that particular team starts losing (almost inevitable), are fans going to even attend games? How many car commercials, etc. will we be seeing if the economy continues to tank? That is only the economic side of the equation. In a football sense, it is even more stupid. Unlike quarterbacks, blockers, defensive linemen and perhaps even middle linebackers, you can move the game away from corners. They have tens of millions invested in Jamarcus Russell, and their OL sucks. If you are going to overpay, why not offer Birk or Saturday 10 or 12 million per year? Or, make a play for Haynesworth? They have a history of this. Years ago, they franchised a corner (was it Woodson)? He had been injured and not having his best year. The tag was pretty high. He had a great agent, and he signed the offer before the ink was dry. He made the big bucks and got yet another huge contract a year later. Between the Bills and the Raiders, I am seeing a trend here. It isn't an exact match, but a pattern of stupidity does exist. They focus on corners, and both of the owners are geriatric AFL guys. Oh.....both teams continue to lose. jesus bill, you think a center is worth as much as the best corner in the nfl? the contract might be too big, but you fundamentally don't understand how important the defensive secondary is in the nfl. the final four teams in the nfl last year all dumped big money and draft picks into their secondary and only one had a highly drafted and paid o line. gandy, who you and others insisted would ruin our entire o, was the starting lt for the best team in the nfl. stop the chubby chasing and secondary hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 jesus bill, you think a center is worth as much as the best corner in the nfl? the contract might be too big, but you fundamentally don't understand how important the defensive secondary is in the nfl. the final four teams in the nfl last year all dumped big money and draft picks into their secondary and only one had a highly drafted and paid o line. gandy, who you and others insisted would ruin our entire o, was the starting lt for the best team in the nfl. stop the chubby chasing and secondary hate. IMO, the best center in the league is more valuable than the best corner. I'd love if the Bills paid top dollar to a Birk, Staurday, to a lesser extent Kreutz caliber center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 IMO, the best center in the league is more valuable than the best corner. I'd love if the Bills paid top dollar to a Birk, Staurday, to a lesser extent Kreutz caliber center. that's just insane and ignorant. you realize every single coach, front office, and gm in the nfl constantly says that they totally disagree with you based on the draft picks they use and the money they spend on contracts, right? small changes in center ability might result is slightly worse execution of things like shotgun snaps, or the odd wrong line call. slight changed in corner back ability can result in 6 points from anywhere on the field. it's just not close, everyone with a log in id to this board should know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 You got me there...I don't know that he's worth that, but Bill Polian thinks he is. And since Bill Polian walks on water in the Football World, obviously this was an amazing steal and a great deal for the Colts Polian does no wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 jesus bill, you think a center is worth as much as the best corner in the nfl? the contract might be too big, but you fundamentally don't understand how important the defensive secondary is in the nfl. the final four teams in the nfl last year all dumped big money and draft picks into their secondary and only one had a highly drafted and paid o line. gandy, who you and others insisted would ruin our entire o, was the starting lt for the best team in the nfl. Your post is littered with flaws. I did make mention of the Raiders investment in their young quarterback, remember? He is getting #1 money and needs blocking more than a corner. Is this hard to understand? Also, Gandy? Do you think that he might have been the major reason that the Cards lost? Pitt was able to exploit him, let alone his costly penalties. I think that you have been watching Dick Levy screw up the draft so long that you are brainwashed, and I want to help. I am going to ask around to see if anyone knows a Dick Levy deprogrammer. You know....the ones who parents would hire to get their kids away from Reverend Moon. I'll get back to you if I can find one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankerous Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 And since Bill Polian walks on water in the Football World, obviously this was an amazing steal and a great deal for the Colts Polian does no wrong Don't put words in my mouth Mr. Dingleberry. I didn't say it was a good deal I merely stated that Polian thinks he's worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Your post is littered with flaws. I did make mention of the Raiders investment in their young quarterback, remember? He is getting #1 money and needs blocking more than a corner. Is this hard to understand? Also, Gandy? Do you think that he might have been the major reason that the Cards lost? Pitt was able to exploit him, let alone his costly penalties. I think that you have been watchig Dick Levy screw up the draft so long that you are brainwashed, and I want to help. I am going to ask around to see if anyone knows a Dick Levy deprogrammer. You know....the ones who parents would hire to get their kids away from Reverend Moon. I'll get back to you if I can find one. on a per man basis the defensive secondary and particularly corners are more important than the oline. while lt requires a rare kind of athlete, a slight deficit in lt play will cause some trouble (like gandy, or even the not so great lt on pitts) for the o. a slight deficit in corner play will result in break away touchdowns. there's a reason why no on will pay that much for even the best C, but will pay it for even just good but not great corners (near pro bowl/pro bowl corners get 10 a year, good ones get 6-9). that's the way it is bill, all nfl gms are big on spending high picks on secondary, that's how it's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glass To The Arson Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Anything over 15 million a year for a CB is insane. I would have let him test the market and easily just beat the price. Stupid Raiders! They must really love this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 that's the way it is bill, all nfl gms are big on spending high picks on secondary, that's how it's done. But we did all that. We used 3 picks on corners and 3 on safeties in the fourth round or higher in the last 3 years. This includes a #8 and a #11, along with later round picks and ufas and we are LOSING! Don't you think they should get the message and focus on having a physical team built to play in the elements? Or, should they continue on this path to destruction of any decent chance to make the playoffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 on a per man basis the defensive secondary and particularly corners are more important than the oline. while lt requires a rare kind of athlete, a slight deficit in lt play will cause some trouble (like gandy, or even the not so great lt on pitts) for the o. a slight deficit in corner play will result in break away touchdowns. there's a reason why no on will pay that much for even the best C, but will pay it for even just good but not great corners (near pro bowl/pro bowl corners get 10 a year, good ones get 6-9). that's the way it is bill, all nfl gms are big on spending high picks on secondary, that's how it's done. Ok a little spin to this. Your center is the man who makes the line calls. There are very few that can make the correct calls that will prevent Peyton Manning from looking like John Beck. While a good corner prevents the bomb touchdown, a good center keeps the line blocking the right guys so there is a run game, and pass protection. The gap between a decent and great center is a canyon, while the gap between a decent and great CB is less noticable. A Corner can only do his job if the guys in front of him do their jobs, or he will eventually fail. Where a center is responsible for making sure his team is ready to execute. IMO, a pro bowl center is far more valuable than a pro bowl corner. So, I would rather have a Kent Hull over a Nate Odomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 But we did all that. We used 3 picks on corners and 3 on safeties in the fourth round or higher in the last 3 years. This includes a #8 and a #11, along with later round picks and ufas and we are LOSING! Don't you think they should get the message and focus on having a physical team built to play in the elements? Or, should they continue on this path to destruction of any decent chance to make the playoffs? you are just way out of touch bill. no one is talking about the bills paying any corner 15 bucks a year, this is a discussion about the relative value of secondary vs interior line. to the other poster above me -- yeah a close to/hall of fame c is better than a slightly above average corner, sure. the difference is that a good young cb, not even the best, is worth much more than a very good C. the least talented o line position is C, it always has been. many Cs cannot play any other position on the line. every single team shows you that the C is a low pick kind of position, and doesn't warrent big contracts. every single team also pays and bids huge for good corners and drafts them high. is it so hard for you to understand that corners are more valuable than centers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 is it so hard for you to understand that corners are more valuable than centers? "More valuable" is a vague term in this discussion. There are probably fewer people proportionately who have what it takes to be an all pro corner than an all pro center and for this reason, corners cost more. This I understand. The thing is colin, we aren't starting from scratch here. The Bills have quite a few decent corners, and not 1 center who isn't flat out awful and even a detriment to the team. If in fact we do agree on this, and that there is a limited financial pool from which to work, where do you think we should concentrate in terms of improving the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 "More valuable" is a vague term in this discussion. There are probably fewer people proportionately who have what it takes to be an all pro corner than an all pro center and for this reason, corners cost more. This I understand. The thing is colin, we aren't starting from scratch here. The Bills have quite a few decent corners, and not 1 center who isn't flat out awful and even a detriment to the team. If in fact we do agree on this, and that there is a limited financial pool from which to work, where do you think we should concentrate in terms of improving the team? STOP THE HYSTERIA!! no one is saying for the bills to sign a corner for 15 bucks a year, but you did say to pay some over 30 center 12 bucks. you just have way too much infatuation for oline. they are important as a unit, but as individuals they are much much less so. the bottom line is a team needs several good corners, one corner going down in a game can mean larry fitz open for 6 3 times in a quarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Here's the top payroll for CBs: http://content.usatoday.com/sports/footbal...BaseSalary+desc I sorted it by base salary since the bonuses were acting strangely - so this isn't a perfect measure, but it's something. You've got: Asomungah (OAK), McAlister (BAL), Champ Bailey (DEN), Patrick Surtain (KC), Antoine Winfield (MIN), Shawn Springs (WAS), Roderick Hood (ARI), Nate Clements (SFO), Charles Woodson (GB), and Mike McKenzie (NO). In that grou, you have three playoff appearances. That's not far from what you'd expect by random chance: 30% here, while 37% of NFL teams make the playoffs. Offensive line, by this same measure, you go six for ten, including two Steelers. LB is also 6/10 DE is 5/10, RB 5/10, DT is 4/10, QB is 4/10, TE 4/10, WR 4/10, S 3/10. So in the defensive backfield, you have the strongest negative correlation between playoff appearances and top salaries, while the defensive front seven and the offensive line are the strongest. It's one year, so take it for what it's worth, but that's what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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