tennesseeboy Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Personally, I consider the key point in socialism being taking property from PERSON A and giving it to PERSON B. The bailout does exactly that. How exactly is the bailout NOT socialism? Okay...who is person A? and who is Person B? Using your definition, doesn't the government of US at least in our lifetimes take our property every April 15 and give it to a whole number of persons B (Haliburton, foreign aid, Pell grants, GI Bill, our military etc.?)...sounds like we were always socialist under that definition. The stimulus plan I'm looking at takes money from the govt (OK..it was in fact my money to start with) and is giving some of it back to me. Sounds pretty non-socialist to me.
RayFinkle Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Yup. I'll sit this one out. Enjoy your breif time in the sun, as this will get moved to the PPP soon enough. Where 4 lonely men with 16 screen names will battle it out in a no holds barred texas cage match.
erynthered Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Where 4 lonely men with 16 screen names will battle it out in a no holds barred texas cage match. BLOOD, GIVE ME BLOOD!!!! <molson>
tennesseeboy Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 You keep bringing up tax relief. Where do you think all the money that they are using for these packages comes from? Came from me. they take a hunk of it from me every year, that's the socialism part of it for me if we are using the person a (me) to person b (whoever the government has been giving it to) theory.
tennesseeboy Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Yup. I'll sit this one out. Enjoy your breif time in the sun, as this will get moved to the PPP soon enough. yup...a little like flushing a toilet to the septic tank!
Acantha Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Okay...who is person A? and who is Person B? Using your definition, doesn't the government of US at least in our lifetimes take our property every April 15 and give it to a whole number of persons B (Haliburton, foreign aid, Pell grants, GI Bill, our military etc.?)...sounds like we were always socialist under that definition. The stimulus plan I'm looking at takes money from the govt (OK..it was in fact my money to start with) and is giving some of it back to me. Sounds pretty non-socialist to me. According to the constitution, congress can accept taxes to use for projects for public use (Military is a great example). Housing does not fall under that scope. Baililng out private banks and businesses does not fall under that. ALL of the money that our government is using is coming from us in some form or another, either through taxes or inflation. ANY TIME they use that money for ANYTHING other than what is authorized to them in the constitution, they are leaning toward socialism. And to answer your question, no we have not always been socialist, but we've have been doing it for a pretty damn long time now. And that bolded part is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've read in a long, long time. Thanks.
Beerball Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 You keep bringing up tax relief. Where do you think all the money that they are using for these packages comes from? Ummmmm...taxes?
Beerball Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Yup. I'll sit this one out. Enjoy your breif time in the sun, as this will get moved to the PPP soon enough. NO!!!! My mama don't allow me to go there.
Acantha Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Came from me. they take a hunk of it from me every year, that's the socialism part of it for me if we are using the person a (me) to person b (whoever the government has been giving it to) theory. You're right. And now it's getting much, much worse. They aren't even pretending to be using this money for things that everyone uses. They're using it to pay for Bob's house. The socialism argument is not restricted to republican or democrat, or just to the stimulus programs. We've been heading down that road for over a century. This is just where we are now. Wait until these stimulus' make things worse, and we have nowhere else to turn. It's not going to be forever until we are no longer our own nation.
Bullpen Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Yup. I'll sit this one out. Enjoy your breif time in the sun, as this will get moved to the PPP soon enough. Ooooo, I don't go over to that board, that's a scary place. Those Mofos over there play for keeps! They would knock my happy-go-lucky ass to the ground and stomp on me!
erynthered Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 yup...a little like flushing a toilet to the septic tank! ....along with all your glorious posts. SPLAT!!
Bullpen Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 ....along with all your glorious posts. SPLAT!! Hey if you all want to have a little fun, there's a nifty thread over on the main board about Mike Tyson as a halfback for the Bills!!!
erynthered Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Ooooo, I don't go over to that board, that's a scary place. Those Mofos over there play for keeps! They would knock my happy-go-lucky ass to the ground and stomp on me! ....they'd SHIV your honky ass. Be afraid, be very afraid!!
erynthered Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 NO!!!! My mama don't allow me to go there. Hey? Wha'd ya have fer lunch? ...........Think I'll have a pizza tonight....
tennesseeboy Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Ummmmm...taxes? Actually we're borrowing most of it from the Chinese. That's another story but its not socialism and its certainly not something new to this administration. I'll defer to the geniuses on the nazi board to figure that one outl. Hey..I'm getting a tax cut. I give a shyt where the money comes from. Got most of my money in gold and the rentals are full and I've got a years worth of mac and cheese.
Beerball Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Hey? Wha'd ya have fer lunch? ...........Think I'll have a pizza tonight.... I had me a Firehouse sub. Yum yum! Quit changing the subject you socialist bastard.
tennesseeboy Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 You're right. And now it's getting much, much worse. They aren't even pretending to be using this money for things that everyone uses. They're using it to pay for Bob's house. The socialism argument is not restricted to republican or democrat, or just to the stimulus programs. We've been heading down that road for over a century. This is just where we are now. Wait until these stimulus' make things worse, and we have nowhere else to turn. It's not going to be forever until we are no longer our own nation. I agree with you. Our government has been more and more socialist since we instituted the sixteenth amendment to the constitution...which I suppose makes our constitution a socialist constitution....so there we are. The stimulus doesn't have all that much to do with it.
Acantha Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Actually we're borrowing most of it from the Chinese. That's another story but its not socialism and its certainly not something new to this administration. I'll defer to the geniuses on the nazi board to figure that one outl. Hey..I'm getting a tax cut. I give a shyt where the money comes from. Got most of my money in gold and the rentals are full and I've got a years worth of mac and cheese. Doesn't take a genius. Borrowed money comes due at some point. And while the title of the thread and article may have started with Obama, the socialism question has nothing specifically to do with him, other than he is continuing what everyone else has done. So the whole, "they do it too" argument is worthless. And if money is taken from me and given to another private citizen (or their business), it sure as hell IS socialism. There is no more clear definition. Lets put it this way: You are doing pretty well, have your houses rented and your gold piled up, and you and your family have 2 cars. Meanwhile, the family down the street got pulled into the credit expansion, is about to lose everything they have, and can't even afford 1 car. One night, an agent of the government comes and takes one of your cars and gives it to the neighbor, free of charge. It's only right, of course. Now this neighbor can use his car to get to a job, and everyone will benefit from that. Sounds good, right? Can't be socialism, cause some how, some way you are going to benefit from him having a car (he'll be able to get a job, and the money he makes will be spent on good, etc...). Of course you probably aren't going to buy another car, cause it will just get taken away from you again, but you know, besides that... Now, how is it different when the agent of the government takes your money instead of your car?
Acantha Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 I agree with you. Our government has been more and more socialist since we instituted the sixteenth amendment to the constitution...which I suppose makes our constitution a socialist constitution....so there we are. The stimulus doesn't have all that much to do with it. There's nothing in the sixteenth amendment that precludes it from being restricted by Article I. The amendmet doesn't make us socialist, only those who don't think they have to follow our constitution (and those who vote for them) do.
tennesseeboy Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 There's nothing in the sixteenth amendment that precludes it from being restricted by Article I. The amendmet doesn't make us socialist, only those who don't think they have to follow our constitution (and those who vote for them) do. The sixteenth amendment allows for an income tax, taking from, as Beerball says, person a and reallocating it to some unknown person b (I'm getting to like beerball's definition) and that is the constitution, whether we like it or not. If the income tax makes us socialist (and there are people who think that.) thenwe are a socialist country...at least using beerball's (and maybe even my) definition.
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