HotPocket Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Wow, just wow. With what seems like a few freaky plane incidents recently I think I'll stick to the train if needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Don't freak out about flying because of this, it's still much safer than driving - if this was 50 people, that's like what, 20 car crashes? And this was the only even in 2.5 years, in that time,there have been about 100,000 people killed in car wrecks in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Yes -de-icing boots. The high wing placement was mentioned by one the phone-in pilots, in the context that it is not very viewable from the cockpit. He did mention that the wipers can be a tip-off. Not high wing PLACEMENT...the aspect. Length divided by width. It's very high on that plane, which means very effecient cruise but not a whole hell of a lot of lift. Slow down for landing, put ice on the wing, then bank into a 270-degree turn, and it's at least theoretically easy to stall a plane with that wing. Whether or not it's easy to stall THAT plane, I don't know. It'll be the first thing the NTSB looks at, no doubt, because it's the most obvious. Turns out my sister was thinking of flying into Buffalo for the long weekend. Decided not to. Had she, she would have been on that plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Don't freak out about flying because of this, it's still much safer than driving - if this was 50 people, that's like what, 20 car crashes? And this was the only even in 2.5 years, in that time,there have been about 100,000 people killed in car wrecks in the US. Exactly. People are afraid of instantaneous, but usually complacent when something is slow and stretched over a long period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 It does, of course. But it only works if its turned ON. The FIRST thing the NTSB is going to look at in the wreckage is the control panel containing the de-ice switch and see what position its in. And even if it WAS on, if conditions were really bad, it may not be effective enough. Even a little bit of ice will cause any plane to drop out of the sky like a rock. I just read that even 1mm of ice on the leading edge will cause a wing to lose 25% of its lift. And being this is a prop plane, its even more sucesptible to icing, as propellers are little wings, just turning sideways. So get ice on their leading edges and not only do you lose lift, you lose thrust. Bad. Pilot error not to turn on the anti icing system is always possible of course[i know of a for hire part 135 operator, who should be a pro, who crashed a 207 in the middle of Anchorage,out of fuel because he never thought to turn the fuel selector from left tank to right tank] But I believe a plane certified to fly into known icing conditions would have a de-icing system for the props. We will not really know for some months what caused this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kegtapr Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Wow, just wow. With what seems like a few freaky plane incidents recently I think I'll stick to the train if needed? As others have said, flying is safer then most other forms of travel. I'd take a plane over a car any day. It's the lack of control over the situation that scares most people. When you're on the ground, you at least feel like you can do something to save yourself. When you're in the air, you're at the complete mercy of someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 For those without CNN access right now, go here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Not high wing PLACEMENT...the aspect. Length divided by width. It's very high on that plane, which means very effecient cruise but not a whole hell of a lot of lift. Slow down for landing, put ice on the wing, then bank into a 270-degree turn, and it's at least theoretically easy to stall a plane with that wing. Whether or not it's easy to stall THAT plane, I don't know. It'll be the first thing the NTSB looks at, no doubt, because it's the most obvious. Turns out my sister was thinking of flying into Buffalo for the long weekend. Decided not to. Had she, she would have been on that plane. Got it. I see what you say about a stall. I noticed that the wing width looked shortish. I listened to 3 perhaps 4, of the - phone in pilots. They were complimentary of the craft in general - one mentioned that it's an easy plane to fly. None mentioned stall propensity - but they wouldn't. In contrast to the tv yahoos, all properly avoided speculation. That flight is the one that my sister-in-law takes to visit Bflo. for holidays. It used to be jet service, but as Continental parceled out the flight to a "Connection Partner" the past few years, the route was serviced by a turboprop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Not high wing PLACEMENT...the aspect. Length divided by width. It's very high on that plane, which means very effecient cruise but not a whole hell of a lot of lift. Slow down for landing, put ice on the wing, then bank into a 270-degree turn, and it's at least theoretically easy to stall a plane with that wing. Whether or not it's easy to stall THAT plane, I don't know. It'll be the first thing the NTSB looks at, no doubt, because it's the most obvious. Turns out my sister was thinking of flying into Buffalo for the long weekend. Decided not to. Had she, she would have been on that plane. That is very cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Not high wing PLACEMENT...the aspect. Length divided by width. It's very high on that plane, which means very effecient cruise but not a whole hell of a lot of lift. Slow down for landing, put ice on the wing, then bank into a 270-degree turn, and it's at least theoretically easy to stall a plane with that wing. Whether or not it's easy to stall THAT plane, I don't know. It'll be the first thing the NTSB looks at, no doubt, because it's the most obvious. Turns out my sister was thinking of flying into Buffalo for the long weekend. Decided not to. Had she, she would have been on that plane. I think you meant a 30 degree turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Got it. I see what you say about a stall. I noticed that the wing width looked shortish. I listened to 3 perhaps 4, of the - phone in pilots. They were complimentary of the craft in general - one mentioned that it's an easy plane to fly. None mentioned stall propensity - but they wouldn't. In contrast to the tv yahoos, all properly avoided speculation. That flight is the one that my sister-in-law takes to visit Bflo. for holidays. It used to be jet service, but as Continental parceled out the flight to a "Connection Partner" the past few years, the route was serviced by a turboprop. They had one pilot on CNN - live, in studio - who at least implied that the stall characteristics were unfriendly - little warning, unfriendly handling, and not quick to recover. And again...that's coming from CNN, whose coverage so far is completely underwhelming, to put it mildly. They ran that tidbit just after their story about the "miraculous escape from death" of a woman in Newark who "courageously" decided to take a different flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelloNewman Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 This is why I will NEVER EVER fly a prop plane which is what it was here. Those planes are accidents waiting to happen especially in the winter. Unlike jets...they do not do well in icy conditions whereas jets can tolerate icy conditions better. These prop planes are unsteady, and not safe compared to jets, and have less expereinced pilots flying them. My prayers go out as well.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 That is very cool. IF you mean it's cool that she wasn't on the plane, then yes I agree (though her friend's parent's house sustained serious fire damage). If you mean it's cool that she could have been...go have another stroke. I think you meant a 30 degree turn Actually I meant a 90 degree turn, heading from roughly northwest to roughly southwest. Of course, 270 degrees achieves the same result... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 They had one pilot on CNN - live, in studio - who at least implied that the stall characteristics were unfriendly - little warning, unfriendly handling, and not quick to recover. And again...that's coming from CNN, whose coverage so far is completely underwhelming, to put it mildly. They ran that tidbit just after their story about the "miraculous escape from death" of a woman in Newark who "courageously" decided to take a different flight. I got up at 2 AM to take a wizz, and turned on the tv to check the weather report. The Weather Channel android with perfect stage make-up mentioned the crash, so I flipped over to the cable crowd. The national tv news crowd are in the main, beyond insipid. How they get to adulthood without a whit of general knowledge about anything is a curiosity unexplained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Turns out my sister was thinking of flying into Buffalo for the long weekend. Decided not to. Had she, she would have been on that plane. Wow good news for your family ... It can be a small world at times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyemike Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 As others have said, flying is safer then most other forms of travel. I'd take a plane over a car any day. It's the lack of control over the situation that scares most people. When you're on the ground, you at least feel like you can do something to save yourself. When you're in the air, you're at the complete mercy of someone else. Exactly, kegtapr. I'm not the world's greatest flyer; in fact, I get very nervous before I board a plane. But it is because of the reason you stated: a lack of control. The odds are greater to get killed in a car crash on the way to work than a plane crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I think you meant a 30 degree turn I don't think the resident genius knows a whole lot about flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 IF you mean it's cool that she wasn't on the plane, then yes I agree (though her friend's parent's house sustained serious fire damage). If you mean it's cool that she could have been...go have another stroke. Actually I meant a 90 degree turn, heading from roughly northwest to roughly southwest. Of course, 270 degrees achieves the same result... Don't be a ing idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I don't think the resident genius knows a whole lot about flying. He does. And I knew what he meant.... I just took my shot becuase its not often I get the chance to correct him on something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 This is why I will NEVER EVER fly a prop plane which is what it was here. Those planes are accidents waiting to happen especially in the winter. Unlike jets...they do not do well in icy conditions whereas jets can tolerate icy conditions better. These prop planes are unsteady, and not safe compared to jets, and have less expereinced pilots flying them. My prayers go out as well.......... Watch for geese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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