BuffaloBud Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Rime ice being mentioned in some sources as a potential cause. Definition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 This is sadly horrific. Really puts into perspective some of the stuff we bicker about on these boards, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Rime ice being mentioned in some sources as a potential cause. Definition Thanks. Here are some pictures. How two people escaped that house is mystifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I just looked at the site through Google Earth and it's absolutely amazing only one house was hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomcat Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 It puts life in perspective. Give your love ones a hug and tell them you love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I think it had to have been ice. He was about 5-6 miles out from landing. So he was on final approach and the aircraft was configured for landing. Gear down, flaps 30 or maybe even 40 (fully deployed). It also means he was at or close to minimum flying speed....maybe 20-30 knots above it, max. So IF it was ice and he lost lift, there was virtually no extra energy or speed available to him Ice is THE worst. Even a little can cause a wing to lose major amounts of lift. Sad event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Real Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Very very sad. Rest in Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiew Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Damn...these tragedies are so much more intense when they involve an area you're familiar with. I'm at work now and can't get any news coverage. I heard that the plane actually exploded before it landed. Any more details yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 What a horrible tragedy. My thoughts and prayers go out to the family of the victims. You tube link of immediate aftermath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I think it had to have been ice. He was about 5-6 miles out from landing. So he was on final approach and the aircraft was configured for landing. Gear down, flaps 30 or maybe even 40 (fully deployed). It also means he was at or close to minimum flying speed....maybe 20-30 knots above it, max. So IF it was ice and he lost lift, there was virtually no extra energy or speed available to him Ice is THE worst. Even a little can cause a wing to lose major amounts of lift. Sad event. I would think a 10000 lb plus twin turbo prop would have deicing equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I would think a 10000 lb plus twin turbo prop would have deicing equipment. It does, of course. But it only works if its turned ON. The FIRST thing the NTSB is going to look at in the wreckage is the control panel containing the de-ice switch and see what position its in. And even if it WAS on, if conditions were really bad, it may not be effective enough. Even a little bit of ice will cause any plane to drop out of the sky like a rock. I just read that even 1mm of ice on the leading edge will cause a wing to lose 25% of its lift. And being this is a prop plane, its even more sucesptible to icing, as propellers are little wings, just turning sideways. So get ice on their leading edges and not only do you lose lift, you lose thrust. Bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 To get a picture of the house from Google Maps go to the map page and enter 6038 Long St. clarence center new york. It is very important that you use that exact sentence in the search field. It will then take you to a picture of the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Sad, sad news. Have they released a passenger list yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBud Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Clarence Center Fire Dept is only 5 houses away from site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi82 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 sad news. i'm taking trains from now on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullpen Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 What a horrible tragedy. My thoughts and prayers go out to the family of the victims. You tube link of immediate aftermath. My God... unreal. My wife told me about it this morning and it wasn't until I was actually on my way to work that it really started to sink in what had happened. Thoughts and prayers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 It does, of course. But it only works if its turned ON. The FIRST thing the NTSB is going to look at in the wreckage is the control panel containing the de-ice switch and see what position its in. And even if it WAS on, if conditions were really bad, it may not be effective enough. I heard a pilot on one of the cable channels talking about the Dash 8. He said that the engine intakes are heated all the time. He also said that pilots have familiarity with the Bflo. area, and icing. He felt that the wing de-icers were likely on. They are the bladder type on that craft. One witness said he heard the engines sputtering, while several others said that the they were throttled up. That nose dive makes me wonder if there was a mechanical/electrical/hydraulic malfunction that caused the elevators to snap fully down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 It does, of course. But it only works if its turned ON. The FIRST thing the NTSB is going to look at in the wreckage is the control panel containing the de-ice switch and see what position its in. And even if it WAS on, if conditions were really bad, it may not be effective enough. Even a little bit of ice will cause any plane to drop out of the sky like a rock. Not if it's left on. The Q400 uses deicing boots, I thnk. And high-aspect wings like on that plane are susceptible to icing problems. BTW, witnesses report gear was up. I used to live under the flight path; usually planes lowered their gear a little further south (closer to Harris Hill or Eastern Hills Mall). It looks like, judging by CNN's pathetic coverage, the plane was turning left into its final approach over Clarence Center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Not if it's left on. The Q400 uses deicing boots, I thnk. And high-aspect wings like on that plane are susceptible to icing problems. BTW, witnesses report gear was up. I used to live under the flight path; usually planes lowered their gear a little further south (closer to Harris Hill or Eastern Hills Mall). It looks like, judging by CNN's pathetic coverage, the plane was turning left into its final approach over Clarence Center. Yes -de-icing boots. The high wing placement was mentioned by one the phone-in pilots, in the context that it is not very viewable from the cockpit. He did mention that the wipers can be a tip-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Not if it's left on. The Q400 uses deicing boots, I thnk. And high-aspect wings like on that plane are susceptible to icing problems. BTW, witnesses report gear was up. I used to live under the flight path; usually planes lowered their gear a little further south (closer to Harris Hill or Eastern Hills Mall). It looks like, judging by CNN's pathetic coverage, the plane was turning left into its final approach over Clarence Center. Im looking at the coverage in CNN and in the picture there, it looks like the gear was down. But this is wild speculation on my part. From the ATC transcript, he was cleared to land after establishing himself on the landing system. OK...so maybe this....if he was at about 2,500 feet, he was either configured for landing...or configurING. Wheich means flaps coming down and gear coming down. Could it be that maybe a flap or other control surface.....even the gear, jammed when coming down? If so, that could cuase a lot of problems at slow speed and with the icing condistions, would be compounded pretty bad. Last trasmission was acknowledgement of turning and establishment instructions. 15:17 - 3407: left 260, 2,300 til established and cleared ils 23 approach, colgan 3407 Oh and I dont buy the witness "engines sputtering" thing. EVERY accident witness account for EVERY accident out there includes mention of "engines sputtering." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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