Alphadawg7 Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Ok, I am just so baffled by those who claim QB is not the problem and blame everything on DJ, Ralph, Peters, or DE...So I am going to spell it out for you right here in black and white...QB PRODUCTION...of should I say LACK of production has been the biggest factor to our losing seasons the last 2 years. Not saying, DE isnt a major need, or that DJ didnt make mistakes, but no other factor has held this club back as much as QB production... Seriously look at these stats. These are the combined stats of JP and Trent for the last 2 seasons where all the blame is being put on DJ...Once you see these stats, ask yourself "How can a coach win in the NFL with this little producton and insane amount of turnovers from his QB's, the most important position on the field?" Not to mention, this is with our staff being incredibly cautious with our QB's and limiting the risks they take, yet they still turn the ball over an embarrasing amount of times... 2007: Yards: 2834 = 177 yards per game TD's: 11 INT's 14 TD:INT ratio: .79:1 Sacks: 26 2008: Yards: 3283 = 205 yards per game TD's: 13 INT's: 15 TD:INT ratio: .87:1 Sacks: 38 Summary, in 32 games our QB's have passed for only 24 TD's total (unbelievably pathetic), 29 INT's (awful), have a TD:INT ratio less than 1:1 at .83:1, average ONLY 191.16 yards per game (incredibly pathetic) and have been sacked 64 times (or twice a game, not terrible, but not very good). Also, during that span, Trent has 5 LOST fumbles and JP has 6 LOST fumbles for another 11 turnovers...so TD to turnover ratio plummets to .60:1 when you factor that in...(horrendous) How is DJ supposed to win when in the last 32 games his QB's passed pathetically for: 1. ONLY 24 TD's 2. ONLY 191 yards per game 3. Turned the ball over 40 times with 29 INT's 4. Have TD:INT ratio of a pathetic .83:1 5. Have been sacked 64 times Seriously? How? I know someone is going to argue that the coaching scheme was too predicatable and simple...well what the h*ll do you expect them to do with the passing scheme when the QB's are performing so poorly? Make it more complicated? Everytime they start showing confidence in the QB's and expand, they let the staff down and regress...therefore the scheme stays simple... So, please expalin to me how that HORRIBLE production is less of a factor than our sack total or our coaching staff... The fact we won 7 games both years is a MIRACLE when you also factor in the massive injuries in 2007 and the critical losses of Crowell and Schobel this year as well as the injuries to other players...Even if we had no injuries, winning 7 games either year with this pathetic QB production is still a miracle. Now for you Trent supporters...read carefully...THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION OF WHAT TRENT WILL BE ONE DAY, ITS A DISCUSSION OF WHAT OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM WAS IN 2007 AND 2008. Potential has ZERO relevance when analyzing actual play on the field as potential is based on something that HAS NOT HAPPENED YET...and this discussion is on what has already happened.
KD in CA Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Oh look, it's another Trent bash thread from Betadog. Yawn.
BillsVet Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Ok, I am just so baffled by those who claim QB is not the problem and blame everything on DJ, Ralph, Peters, or DE. What does Matt Cassel's mother think about our QB situation? And which pilots are you working on right now? Question: If Matt Cassel receives the franchise tag, doesn't his mother get some credit for her son's success? And if you're handling cameras for a pilot that never gets the air, do you and Matt Cassel's mother get an IMDB credit?
San-O Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 QB play has been pretty bad, agreed. Coaching has been awful: take DJ off the sidelines during games and the Bills are probably more like 9 - 7 this year and also last year. Also, someone better figure out how to get the ball in the endzone WITH TE in there, or else it's going to be a lot more of the same this year.
SWVABillsFan Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Because defense is simpler than offense a team should always have an offensive minded coach. While I like DJ, he is a defensive coorinator and not a head coach. When you are losing games by 3-10 point margins you have to find a way to put those kind of points on the board. A defensive, conservative minded coach just can't do that.
Alphadawg7 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 Oh look, it's another Trent bash thread from Betadog. Yawn. Nice insightful response... I find it amusing that when ever you present the delusional Trent is so great posters with actual facts and in game play, they either dont respond or come back with some lame post like this... Why is that? Maybe because you can't argue with the stats? QB is one of the few positions that stats tell the bulk of the story... Also, notice how you made it about Trent and I made it about COMBINED QB play, not just Trent even though the bulk of those stats are from Trent as he had 24 starts to JP's 8...
rackemrack Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 so lets draft a QB at #11 problem solved and trade for peyton manning to be the backup and make trent #3
Alphadawg7 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 What does Matt Cassel's mother think about our QB situation? And which pilots are you working on right now? Question: If Matt Cassel receives the franchise tag, doesn't his mother get some credit for her son's success? And if you're handling cameras for a pilot that never gets the air, do you and Matt Cassel's mother get an IMDB credit? An even dumber response...but I would expect nothing else from you as your posts frequently mock others and offer no real intelligence to any conversation... I love how when someone provides you with actual facts and evidence you either dont reply anymore or reply with personal attacks that have no bearing to the topic becuase you have nothing intelligent to say... Your name says Billsvet but you post like you are 12 years old...
H2o Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 You have to factor in the guys up front who are supposed to be blocking for that QB supposedly allowing them to disect defenses and get the ball out without too much harrassment from the opposing team's front. That hasn't really happened. In another thread they're comparing TrINT to Derek, but all I'm saying is look at the guy's OL. Last year Cleveland was a top 5 OL. That's when DA put up MOST of those #'s.
Alphadawg7 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 LMAO... I love how the bulk of the replies have no intelligent response or argument against the QB production not being our biggest problem...they just post stupid responses where they mock the thread, or say something stupid like we should trade for manning, or take pot shots at my career or friendship with Barbara... Thanks for cementing my point...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 You have to factor in the guys up front who are supposed to be blocking for that QB supposedly allowing them to disect defenses and get the ball out without too much harrassment from the opposing team's front. That hasn't really happened. In another thread they're comparing TrINT to Derek, but all I'm saying is look at the guy's OL. Last year Cleveland was a top 5 OL. That's when DA put up MOST of those #'s. Last year the Cleveland O Line struggled, however, Dereks better stats did come when the O Line was playing much better, so you are right about the O Line. Like I said though, QB isnt the only factor, however, its been the biggest factor. Our O Line has played good enough for our QB's to produce better than they have. In fact, in 2007, Peters had a dominating year and our QB production was still terrible even though he was the one protecting his back. There are a lot of reasons we dont win, but QB has been the biggest factor by far...someone posted if DJ wasnt on the sidelines we win 9 games instead of 7...guess what, NE won 11 games and didnt make the playoffs, so winning 9 only gets us a lower draft pick...BETTER QB play wins us 5 more games and the division crown...(cle, Jets, Mia, NE and SF)...
SWVABillsFan Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Losman is gone, Hamdan is a #3 or worse at his best, so Trent is the guy. The only knock I have on the guy is no cannon arm. I want to give the guy an awesome receiving TE and another viable speedy WR. Get a good center and when them positions are in good order we can tell whether the QB is any good. Why do people consistently start threads on the starters when in the forsee-able future there probably won't be any change. You want to bash someone bash that whimp a**ed center buffalo has. Then bash the front office for not getting players they have had a chance to get.
Adam Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 I don't care if we put an orange cone at QB! Fix the lines and the rest will follow.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 How's this for a semi-intelligent reply? The woes of an eleven man unit which depends on choreography and precision for success usually cannot be reduced to one factor. As a sophisticated analyst would frame the issue, there can be % blame apportioned to several areas. I think most of us can agree that we have subpar weapons in the passing game. I think most of us can agree that we have an average offensive line. I think most of can agree that we had a first year offensive coordinator installing a slightly new system. I think most of can agree that Trent is a young quarterback. He has 23 career starts. I think most of us can agree that somewhere around 99% of all young quarterbacks struggle. So IMO blaming the poor offensive performance solely on quarterback play is a gross oversimplification. Why can't we say something like: 30% blame: poor receiving corp 25% blame: average offensive line 25% blame: Newer system/New offensive coordinator 20% blame: Poor quarterback play You can split hairs on the % of blame but to put it all on one factor is ridiculous to me.
VJ91 Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 LMAO... I love how the bulk of the replies have no intelligent response or argument against the QB production not being our biggest problem...they just post stupid responses where they mock the thread, or say something stupid like we should trade for manning, or take pot shots at my career or friendship with Barbara... Thanks for cementing my point... I think people out here take pot shots at your personal info because we have no way of knowing if it is true or not So if you are posting stuff like "Matt Cassel is going to do this because I'm friends with his Mom and she told me so", you are just opening yourself up for ridicule. Nobody out here cares if you are friends with Mrs. Cassel, and those that do care, don't believe you anyway. I just enjoy posting my Bills' and NFL opinions, while keeping my personal info to myself. You would be smart to do the same from here on in. As far as your post about Lost-man and Edwards stats the past two seasons, they are facts, and indisputable, obviously. But I put more blame on the Bills' biggest, tallest, fattest and weakest OL in the NFL, both guys have had to play behind. If those overpaid, passionless fatties would figure out how to run block, Edwards or any decent QB (leaving Lost-man out), would have much better stats as Lynch and Jackson were averaging 4.5 yards per carry.
Simon Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 I find it amusing that when ever you present the delusional Trent is so great posters with actual facts and in game play, they either dont respond or come back with some lame post like this... Why is that? Maybe because you can't argue with the stats? Maybe it's because, unlike you, some of us have actually played the game before and understand that the only people that rely on stats are jocksniffers like you.
Alphadawg7 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 How's this for a semi-intelligent reply? The woes of an eleven man unit which depends on choreography and precision for success usually cannot be reduced to one factor. As a sophisticated analyst would frame the issue, there can be % blame apportioned to several areas. I think most of us can agree that we have subpar weapons in the passing game. I think most of us can agree that we have an average offensive line. I think most of can agree that we had a first year offensive coordinator installing a slightly new system. I think most of can agree that Trent is a young quarterback. He has 23 career starts. I think most of us can agree that somewhere around 99% of all young quarterbacks struggle. So IMO blaming the poor offensive performance solely on quarterback play is a gross oversimplification. Why can't we say something like: 30% blame: poor receiving corp 25% blame: average offensive line 25% blame: Newer system/New offensive coordinator 20% blame: Poor quarterback play You can split hairs on the % of blame but to put it all on one factor is ridiculous to me. Lol, nice reply, and I respect your opinnion and thought you put into it... However, I disagree with 30% poor recieving corp...when JP was productive in 2006, so was Evans. Reed is the most underapprieciated player on our team and our ineptness at passing the ball keeps his stats modest as well as Evans. Offensive line is not great, but not terrible either. Center is our only glaring and big weak spot...but the O Line provided plenty of passing time this season that saw our QB's do literally nothing with it. Agree, newer system adds to it, but the system was simplified to account for the young QB problem. The issue I have is that all these posters who support Trent say he is young and that is why he struggles...then they go on to talk about him like he isnt struggling in other posts (not saying you do this, but many do). Do we have several holes, sure...but our biggest has been POOR QB play...the fact remains, how can a team win with this kind of production? Seriously, what has to happen for a team to win when your QB's combine for a measly 24 passing TD's, 40 turnovers, and 190 yards passing a game over 2 full seasons and 32 games? I will tell you...your D has to play out of this world and hold teams under 14 points, your D has to score points for you, your ST has to score points for you, your HC has to be perfect, your team has to have minimal injuries and none to key players, and your Run game has to dominate. So unless we are dominant and nearly perfect in all other areas of the game, we won't be able to over come such inept play at QB, and anyone who has ever played at a competitive level understands this. There is a reason the QB gets all the credit and all the blame, because his performance has more impact on the outcome of a game than any other single position. Also, I posted in caps that this thread is not to speculate on what Trent MAY become in the future, it is a direct recap and analysis of what held us back the most in 07 and 08...how anyone can argue differently after seeing the meesly production is shocking to say the least... One last thing, this isnt a thread about Trent, its about our QB's combined...thats both JP and Trent...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 How's this for a semi-intelligent reply? The woes of an eleven man unit which depends on choreography and precision for success usually cannot be reduced to one factor. As a sophisticated analyst would frame the issue, there can be % blame apportioned to several areas. I think most of us can agree that we have subpar weapons in the passing game. I think most of us can agree that we have an average offensive line. I think most of can agree that we had a first year offensive coordinator installing a slightly new system. I think most of can agree that Trent is a young quarterback. He has 23 career starts. I think most of us can agree that somewhere around 99% of all young quarterbacks struggle. So IMO blaming the poor offensive performance solely on quarterback play is a gross oversimplification. Why can't we say something like: 30% blame: poor receiving corp 25% blame: average offensive line 25% blame: Newer system/New offensive coordinator 20% blame: Poor quarterback play You can split hairs on the % of blame but to put it all on one factor is ridiculous to me. I would pretty much agree, however I would only put about 10% on the receivers & 40% on Trent. The Bills have good receivers. If Manning or Brady were at QB there would be no problem with the receivers. It has been well documented that there were receivers open a lot last year & Trent did not get them the ball. Fitzgerald & Bolden could have been on the field for the Bills last year & it wouldn't have mattered. A receiver has to have the ball thrown to them to make a play.
BillsVet Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 An even dumber response...but I would expect nothing else from you as your posts frequently mock others and offer no real intelligence to any conversation... I love how when someone provides you with actual facts and evidence you either dont reply anymore or reply with personal attacks that have no bearing to the topic becuase you have nothing intelligent to say... Your name says Billsvet but you post like you are 12 years old... First, my name is "BillsVet" because I am a military veteran and obviously a Bills fan. The only season since 1988 that I missed was 2004 when I was deployed. You got yourself off to a bad start on this board by quoting sources that you attempted in vain to prove. So much so that it came down to your "proof" being a pilot television show and whether or not it was on IMDB. Pretty lame if you ask me. Your inside source was allegedly Matt Cassel's mother, which isn't much of a source on anyone but her son. Regardless of whether you like it, Trent Edwards is the QB of this team. He doesn't miss on draft picks, he doesn't sign free agents, he doesn't hire lame duck coaches who never should have been hired after failing in Chicago. He doesn't hire OC's who've never been in the position and who never would have been without Buffalo. He doesn't put the game plan together, but he is an integral part of this team. You want a QB with less than 2 seasons of NFL starts to play like an All Pro. When you refer to QB play, you're making a veiled reference against TE and we all know it. In the short time you've been here, you've managed to alienate a lot of people, particularly those who don't wholeheartedly agree with your tired rationale. I'll be critical of TE when he has a bad game. The first quarter of the Cleveland MNF game was about as bad as a QB can play. He had a lack of confidence, but his rookie OC and rookie QB coach did nothing to react to the Browns defense. People criticize TE as the checkdown man, and there were guys open, but try playing QB with 6-7 guys in coverage on every down. I didn't care for the way you introduced yourself onto this board. Get over yourself.
Alphadawg7 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 I think people out here take pot shots at your personal info because we have no way of knowing if it is true or not So if you are posting stuff like "Matt Cassel is going to do this because I'm friends with his Mom and she told me so", you are just opening yourself up for ridicule. Nobody out here cares if you are friends with Mrs. Cassel, and those that do care, don't believe you anyway. I just enjoy posting my Bills' and NFL opinions, while keeping my personal info to myself. You would be smart to do the same from here on in. As far as your post about Lost-man and Edwards stats the past two seasons, they are facts, and indisputable, obviously. But I put more blame on the Bills' biggest, tallest, fattest and weakest OL in the NFL, both guys have had to play behind. If those overpaid, passionless fatties would figure out how to run block, Edwards or any decent QB (leaving Lost-man out), would have much better stats as Lynch and Jackson were averaging 4.5 yards per carry. I get ya...I got some insight from Barbara that I found interesting and shared it...I have talked to her a few times since, and trust me the contents of those conversations will never grace these boards again...it really wasnt worth it...I sent her a link to thread, she was rolling and we had a good laugh over it as she poked fun at how irritated I got... I dont really share personal info with the exception of that post...for instance, I played college ball for 4 years in the Pac 10 and been asked a few times where and when, but I leave it out, its not important and don't need people that much in my business...
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