San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Many of us are hoping that Boston College defensive tackle B.J. Raji is there for us to pluck at #11 overall. Keep in mind though that if that were to happen he might not make a huge impact right away. For purposes of this discussion I'm going to post where these players were drafted and what their Scout's Inc grade was at the time. Presently Raji gets a grade of 97. In 2006 as has been stated many times on these pages, we took Donte Whitner (#8 overall, 94 grade) when Haloti Ngata (#12 overall, 96 grade) and Broderick Bunkley (#14, overall, 97 grade) were still available. Both of those tackles are excellent players now but were pretty inconsequential their rookie years. Ngata had a bigger impact as a rookie. In 2007, the Houston Texans selected Amobi Okoye (#10 overall, 95 grade). He's a promising player but has not become an impact player yet. In 2008, Kansas City took Glenn Dorsey (#5, 98 grade) and New Orleans took Sedrick Ellis (#7 overall, 97 grade). But players showed flashes of excellence but also the typical inconsistency associated with being a rookie at the position. So in short, if you're hoping for an impact player at #11, don't hold your breathe. Whoever we draft will probably make a bigger impact their second year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 The supermostexcellent © methodology proved that taking a 1st round DT means guaranteed success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Remember Walt Patulski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 going along with the topic, haynesworth took a while before he became a dominant DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I'm willing to wait. We're not making a deep playoff run in 2009 as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 The supermostexcellent © methodology proved that taking a 1st round DT means guaranteed success. That's $0.02 please, Cap'n McGillicuddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Many of us are hoping that Boston College defensive tackle B.J. Raji is there for us to pluck at #11 overall. Keep in mind though that if that were to happen he might not make a huge impact right away. For purposes of this discussion I'm going to post where these players were drafted and what their Scout's Inc grade was at the time. Presently Raji gets a grade of 97. In 2006 as has been stated many times on these pages, we took Donte Whitner (#8 overall, 94 grade) when Haloti Ngata (#12 overall, 96 grade) and Broderick Bunkley (#14, overall, 97 grade) were still available. Both of those tackles are excellent players now but were pretty inconsequential their rookie years. Ngata had a bigger impact as a rookie. In 2007, the Houston Texans selected Amobi Okoye (#10 overall, 95 grade). He's a promising player but has not become an impact player yet. In 2008, Kansas City took Glenn Dorsey (#5, 98 grade) and New Orleans took Sedrick Ellis (#7 overall, 97 grade). But players showed flashes of excellence but also the typical inconsistency associated with being a rookie at the position. So in short, if you're hoping for an impact player at #11, don't hold your breathe. Whoever we draft will probably make a bigger impact their second year. Okoye had a nice rookie campaign, but struggled a bit last year. If the Texans do something 'bout their opposite DE (Weaver ain't the answer) and if they could ever get any decent play out of their other first round DT Travis Johnson, he may fare better. Ngata had a solid rookie year, but did come on afterward. Ellis didn't have a bad year. He started off slow, but by the end of the year, he justified 'Nawlins taking him so high. He definitely had a better season overall than did Mr Dorsey. Then again, Dorsey is in KC, which is a mess right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 The more I think about Raji, the more I think he is a "sure thing" in my view. I love the idea of having Stroud and Raji crushing interior O-lineman. Most likely he wouldn't play at a probowl level his rookie year, but it's not like Kyle Williams is a slouch, so having Raji come in for situational or on a rotation basis doesn't sound bad to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I agree that there is a risk to drafting dts. As was said, many are busts and others take a long time to develop. The problem however, is the good ones are usually taken early and never hit the free agent market. I like what New England has done. When they have an early 1st round pick they have drafted dts. All three of their starting dts were selected in the first half of round 1. Mayo last season was an exception, but they did not need to draft another tackle. When you have an opportunity to draft an athletic big man, you have to go for it. Good linebackers, safetys, corners, rbs, and wrs can be found later in the draft and in free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperKillerRobots Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I agree that there is a risk to drafting dts. As was said, many are busts and others take a long time to develop. The problem however, is the good ones are usually taken early and never hit the free agent market. I like what New England has done. When they have an early 1st round pick they have drafted dts. All three of their starting dts were selected in the first half of round 1. Mayo last season was an exception, but they did not need to draft another tackle. When you have an opportunity to draft an athletic big man, you have to go for it. Good linebackers, safetys, corners, rbs, and wrs can be found later in the draft and in free agency. I think this is basically correct. Discounting whether a guy will pan out or not I would say that a great percentage of players who are "big, athletic" guys go in the first round. It doesn't even necessarily have to be a lineman, because players of any position who fit the "big, athletic" label go early unless there are serious concerns about their ability to play. For every UDFA like Jason Peters or Antonio Gates there are probably 15 guys who go in the first round. The moral of the story is that if you want to take a chance on a guy like that, you have to spend a high pick. It makes a lot of sense to go after one of those players when you have the chance. They are they type of guys who get your draft labeled crap after the first year and then brilliant after three or four. We need one of those brilliant after three or four years drafts to get back into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 The supermostexcellent © methodology proved that taking a 1st round DT means guaranteed success. You missed your calling; you should have dedicated your life to building straw men. Thanks for driving away one of the best football posters in the history of this board; you incessant misplaced superiority based on a modicum of knowledge is such a wonderful substitute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 You missed your calling; you should have dedicated your life to building straw men.Thanks for driving away one of the best football posters in the history of this board; you incessant misplaced superiority based on a modicum of knowledge is such a wonderful substitute. Got it. So now calling someone out for misrepresenting the facts by intentionally skewing their existing data and excluding data that didn't fit their little theory is a "straw man." But you're right. We need more people who make up facts and falsehoods to fit whatever their agenda may be. Since you apparently missed the point of those arguments, everyone agreed that beefing up the DL is a good thing. It was the B.S. methodology that we were arguing about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjohns85 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 i know there are some exceptions, but isnt there somewhat of a learning curve for all positions( other than maybe rb) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 i know there are some exceptions, but isnt there somewhat of a learning curve for all positions( other than maybe rb) No doubt. I'm not quite clear on what if anything is being disputed here. Raji might end up to be a colossal bust or he might be the next great defensive tackle. No one knows at this point. I just thought it was an interesting discussion because part of the joy of being a hard core sports fan is talking about these things. As I stated, it's just a precautionary note. I hope he drops to us though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I don't give two turds about your typical infantile pedantic semantics. The guy has been gone 6 months and you're still running around squeaking about it like a 9 yr old. When a community loses observant, insightful men like that and is instead forced to suffer self-important little children like you, this board is much the worse off for it. But you don't care about that do ya? Got it. So now calling someone out for misrepresenting the facts by intentionally skewing their existing data and excluding data that didn't fit their little theory is a "straw man." But you're right. We need more people who make up facts and falsehoods to fit whatever their agenda may be. Since you apparently missed the point of those arguments, everyone agreed that beefing up the DL is a good thing. It was the B.S. methodology that we were arguing about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I don't give two turds about your typical infantile pedantic semantics. The guy has been gone 6 months and you're still running around squeaking about it like a 9 yr old.When a community loses observant, insightful men like that and is instead forced to suffer self-important little children like you, this board is much the worse off for it. But you don't care about that do ya? Who? What? Or is it just none of my damn business, which is fine as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I don't give two turds about your typical infantile pedantic semantics. The guy has been gone 6 months and you're still running around squeaking about it like a 9 yr old.When a community loses observant, insightful men like that and is instead forced to suffer self-important little children like you, this board is much the worse off for it. But you don't care about that do ya? He posts a straw man argument, he gets called out for it, and you defend him. Ramius posts a straw man argument, and you call him out for it. Hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 He posts a straw man argument, he gets called out for it, and you defend him. Ramius posts a straw man argument, and you call him out for it. Hmm... I believe his original argument was that a defensive front is important enough that you should spend valuable assets to build one. I couldn't have given a fart in the wind about how they went about arguing about it. What I do give a fart about is that he then continually stalked and harassed the guy all over the board, regardless of the subject he was discussing, to the point where one of the most insightful posters we've ever had got tired of it and left. And all the rest of us got out of the deal was the continued presence of some self-important little dillhole who couldn't tell the difference between a draw and a trap. The board is a worse place today because of ramius' continuing misplaced superiority. And he still just keeps at it. Who's he going to annoy out of here next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I believe his original argument was that a defensive front is important enough that you should spend valuable assets to build one. I couldn't have given a fart in the wind about how they went about arguing about it.What I do give a fart about is that he then continually stalked and harassed the guy all over the board, regardless of the subject he was discussing, to the point where one of the most insightful posters we've ever had got tired of it and left. And all the rest of us got out of the deal was the continued presence of some self-important little dillhole who couldn't tell the difference between a draw and a trap. The board is a worse place today because of ramius' continuing misplaced superiority. And he still just keeps at it. Who's he going to annoy out of here next? Check your PMs in a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Who? What? Or is it just none of my damn business, which is fine as well. AKC. I didn't even realize he was gone. That's truly unfortunate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts