Ramius Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 If I use my neighbor's wireless internet to download movies and burn them to DVDs, is that more or less illegal than throwing a cup of beer at Ron Artest? That depends on the amount of time needed to fry, the amount of pickle juice used, and whether or not your neighbor has a tail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I have wrestled with this myself, having been know to "wardrive" a neighborhood when I desperately have to send an e-mail or find a location on Google maps. If you are transmitting an unsecured signal off your property, and you intercept said signal in a public space, like the street, it should not be illegal, assuming you are not causing harm, other than to slow down ones speed a tad. It's like someone who walks around naked in their home with the lights on and curtains open. Are you guilty of leering if you catch a glimpse from the street? PTR If you ever saw my neighbors you would not be wanting any glimpses ... scary .. very scary is what I say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millbank Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 reminded me of the Retatta recipe discussion Darin's famous words start the thread on its way in post 10..... I'm not sure I'd be tossing that name around when you've publically admitted it takes you an hour to cook this friggin abortion. Of course, that may include the drive to the store and the other 43 minutes it takes you to pick the shell out of the pan. "Ow, hot. Ow, hot. Ow, hot!" Fried eggs, pasta, and pickle juice? That's not a recipe, it's wicked hangover Saturday morning breakfast at the college bachelor pad with all the food left in the house. Well, unless you're pregnant. - good reading of times that were That depends on the amount of time needed to fry, the amount of pickle juice used, and whether or not your neighbor has a tail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Don't leave your lawnmower outside and go in for a drink. Someone could load it into their truck, go cut their lawn, and return it. You should have secured it. What if you leave your lawnmower on my driveway without my permission with a sign that says, "Feel free to use me?" That's what you're doing with an unsecured wireless router. no a fair analogy is .. if someone is playing music loudly, and you can hear it in your house, is it legal for you to listen to it? That's exactly what I say -- you're sending waves (sound vs radio) out of your house. If you don't want someone to use it, then don't broadcast it for them to use. The law is very fuzzy on this - some think it's illegal, some say it's not. Cracking WEP/WPA/WPA2 would be illegal. But if it's an open system, it's not as cut and dry. When you connect to an unsecured wireless network, your computer and router have this conversation: PC: Is there anybody out there with a network connection? Router: I'm here! PC: May I connect to you? Router: Sure can! PC: Will you please give me an IP address and tell me what your gateway is? Router: You may use IP 1.2.3.4 and gateway 1.2.3.254 PC: Thank you! So this isn't much different than knocking on someone's door to use their bathroom or telephone, except the computers are doing the talking. Shouldn't be illegal, but the laws haven't been tested much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 What if you leave your lawnmower on my driveway without my permission with a sign that says, "Feel free to use me?" That's what you're doing with an unsecured wireless router. That's exactly what I say -- you're sending waves (sound vs radio) out of your house. If you don't want someone to use it, then don't broadcast it for them to use. The law is very fuzzy on this - some think it's illegal, some say it's not. Cracking WEP/WPA/WPA2 would be illegal. But if it's an open system, it's not as cut and dry. When you connect to an unsecured wireless network, your computer and router have this conversation: PC: Is there anybody out there with a network connection? Router: I'm here! PC: May I connect to you? Router: Sure can! PC: Will you please give me an IP address and tell me what your gateway is? Router: You may use IP 1.2.3.4 and gateway 1.2.3.254 PC: Thank you! So this isn't much different than knocking on someone's door to use their bathroom or telephone, except the computers are doing the talking. Shouldn't be illegal, but the laws haven't been tested much. Good post, Fez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 So this isn't much different than knocking on someone's door to use their bathroom or telephone, except the computers are doing the talking. Shouldn't be illegal, but the laws haven't been tested much. The proper analogy is - knocking on someone's door to use their bathroom or telephone, and if they're not home, going in and doing your business without the owner's knowledge. Much fuzzier, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 The proper analogy is - knocking on someone's door to use their bathroom or telephone, and if they're not home, going in and doing your business without the owner's knowledge. Much fuzzier, isn't it? More like you knock on their door, and their butler answers the door and lets you use the bathroom or telephone. The computer asks permission, the router grants permission. Not fuzzy at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Legalities aside, for me - morally/ethically - how it is being used makes a difference. If you are trying to hack into someone's computer - or are using a neighbor's connection daily as your own because you are too cheap to buy a connection yourself - then that's wrong. If I'm visiting my in laws in Buffalo - who have no computer/connection, or go to the beach say - and can pick up a connection in the neighborhood/area to check my email or do some superficial browsing - I have no guilt about that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Plastic Cup Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 If I use my neighbor's wireless internet to download movies and burn them to DVDs, is that more or less illegal than throwing a cup of beer at Ron Artest? Come on. That punk ass B word deserved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Come on. That punk ass B word deserved it. Actually, he was minding his own business when the cup got thrown at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 No, it is being broadcast for all to use. If they didn't want it used, they would lock it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 No, it is being broadcast for all to use. If they didn't want it used, they would lock it. What if they are unaware that it is open, or don't understand how to lock it? (Again, I'm more or less on the if it is open, it is OK to use, but I don't assume that people leave it open on purpose.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 There's a concert in the park, tickets are $60.00 each, while it is a crime to bust in the gate, it's ok to sit a block away and listen to it. If they don't wan't you to hear it, they can host it in a dome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Plastic Cup Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Actually, he was minding his own business when the cup got thrown at him. Didn't say he wasn't. But he had it coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 What if they are unaware that it is open, or don't understand how to lock it? (Again, I'm more or less on the if it is open, it is OK to use, but I don't assume that people leave it open on purpose.) Ignorance is no defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Didn't say he wasn't. But he had it coming. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Ignorance is no defense. Ignorance of the law is no defense. Ignorance of technology is another thing, entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In space no one can hear Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Man arrested for using stores internet access (he was sitting in his car, in the stores parking lot) Another arrest has been made over someone leeching a WiFi network without authorization, this time in Michigan. The leecher could have faced a five-year prison sentence and a $10,000 penalty but won't since it's his first offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Ignorance of the law is no defense. Ignorance of technology is another thing, entirely. It doesn't change the end result, either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 What if they are unaware that it is open, or don't understand how to lock it? (Again, I'm more or less on the if it is open, it is OK to use, but I don't assume that people leave it open on purpose.) How is an end user supposed to know whether it's a free public hot-spot or a private router broadcasting for all to use? Most people who have their PC's wireless turned on don't actually pick from a list -- they just connect to whatever is broadcasting in range (or at least that's a setting). That makes it even more of a gray area, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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