Big Turk Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Bills finished with a composite score of 254, 14.5 points better than runner up Tennessee...Bobby April the genius... Dallas Morning News rankings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Bills finished with a composite score of 254, 14.5 points better than runner up Tennessee...Bobby April the genius... Dallas Morning News rankings Nice and I applaud April but ST's play does not get you into the playoffs. I would much rather have solid offensive and defensive play. I posted earlier this year that Ithink the Bills emphasis on ST's may be disproportionately detracting from other aspects of the game. I think you need to be solid in ST's as they can cost you games but offensive production and takeaways on defense are far more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PearlHowardman Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 ...ST's play does not get you into the playoffs. We have a QB Trent Edwards that will never get us to the playoffs. We have an owner Ralph Wilson that will never get us to the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Nice and I applaud April but ST's play does not get you into the playoffs. I would much rather have solid offensive and defensive play. I posted earlier this year that Ithink the Bills emphasis on ST's may be disproportionately detracting from other aspects of the game. I think you need to be solid in ST's as they can cost you games but offensive production and takeaways on defense are far more important. Disagree....I think the ST is doing outstanding and it needs to be to get great field position...The OFfense or Defense have not been able to capitalize on such a stellar ST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Cool. Gosselin knows his stuff too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Disagree....I think the ST is doing outstanding and it needs to be to get great field position...The OFfense or Defense have not been able to capitalize on such a stellar ST. Pitt 20 and the Cards 28. Apparently, they are able to do more elsewhere. Buffalo is too oversold on ST's. I'll take a solid offense and defense any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 Pitt 20 and the Cards 28. Apparently, they are able to do more elsewhere. Buffalo is too oversold on ST's. I'll take a solid offense and defense any day of the week. This is all true, but your logic is ultimately flawed. You are saying if you have A, you necessarily cannot have B or C and if you have B or C, you necessarily cannot have A. I don't believe that to be true by any stretch of the imagination. Good offenses and defenses are almost always a result of drafting highly skilled players in the first few rounds. Yes, you can get lucky sometimes and get a late round gem every now and then, but the vast majority of the major contributors in the NFL are from the first 3 rounds of the draft. Teams just don't draft special teams players here---those are likely 6th, 7th and UFA selections. The Bills do not have to get worse on special teams to get better on offense or defense, unless you believe the 3rd and 4th string LBs are going to be star players in this league. Perhaps the 3rd string OT and TE will make a major impact on this team. I highly doubt it, if only because they will rarely see the field even if the Bills shifted their focus away from special teams. Having great depth certainly helps, but the difference between someone who can't play special teams and someone who can and then the difference between their ability levels at their position is likely to be minimal to non-existent. I mean can you really say that another teams 4th string LB is better than our 4th string LB? What is your decision based on? Neither one of them has played in more than 15 plays this year(outside of ST), so I am not sure exactly how this argument holds any water. Basically what you are telling me is that when other teams special teams players get in the game for the combined 5-10 plays each game they have a greater impact than ours, which IMHO they really don't, mainly because they aren't very good options or don't have enough skill to make a major impact. Am I to believe that because McKelvin is one of the best returners in the NFL that he therefore cannot play CB? You try and make a case for cause and effect, ie, since our special teams players are good, they therefore cannot play their positions, but IMHO there is an extremely weak to non-existent correlation between the two... If anything, having special teams as good as ours should make both our offense and defense look better than they really are because they give the offense exceptional starting field position(is there any other team in the NFL where the opposition would rather give us the ball at the 35 yard line by kicking to one of the upbacks than to kick off to our return man?) meaning they have to get fewer yards to score than other teams, if forced to punt, the better field position combined with our great punter and coverage teams means the opposition is starting further back, which should then help the defense force more punts because the other team has to string together more first downs to score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Bills finished with a composite score of 254, 14.5 points better than runner up Tennessee...Bobby April the genius... Dallas Morning News rankings without our STs we may have ended up 0-16 like those kooky Lions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 If indeed we had the NFL's top special teams unit for 3rd time in 5 years, than it's clear that ST's are not a significant driver of playoff teams. Yawn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Yes, let's trade-in the best ST's at the "I'd rather have a better offense or defense" store, shall we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Yes, let's trade-in the best ST's at the "I'd rather have a better offense or defense" store, shall we? Yea we had better, because it's clear that if we keep doing what we've been doing, we're not headed to the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Nice and I applaud April but ST's play does not get you into the playoffs. I would much rather have solid offensive and defensive play. I posted earlier this year that Ithink the Bills emphasis on ST's may be disproportionately detracting from other aspects of the game. I think you need to be solid in ST's as they can cost you games but offensive production and takeaways on defense are far more important. Agreed. Special teams are overrated. Averaging 5 yards of extra field position doesn't mean squat when you can't convert a 3d down or stop the run. I mean it's nice to have solid ST, but it can't begin to make up for incompetence in the offense and defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 We have a QB Trent Edwards that will never get us to the playoffs. We have an owner Ralph Wilson that will never get us to the playoffs. You must be quite the football expert to feel qualified to make a statement like that. So educated me, oh expert, how is it that you know Trent Edwards is incapable of EVER making the playoffs as the Bills' starting quarterback. Just a hunch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Nice and I applaud April but ST's play does not get you into the playoffs. I would much rather have solid offensive and defensive play. I posted earlier this year that Ithink the Bills emphasis on ST's may be disproportionately detracting from other aspects of the game. I think you need to be solid in ST's as they can cost you games but offensive production and takeaways on defense are far more important. I've remember Desmond Howard winning the SB MVP award for his ST performance. I remember the Bears-Cardinals game where Devin Hester single handedly changed the game by his returns and brought the Bears back to win. Dante Hall was a player of that caliber for KC about 5 years ago. Brian Mitchell, Eric Metcalf, Darrel Green, Deion Sanders, do all these names ring a bell? Your focus on ST doesn't take anything away from your team, it adds to the success there of. If we have guys that are properly coached as to their assignments, wrap up on their tackles, and work together as a cohesive unit it = poor starting field position for our oppenents. More field to cover usually equals a higher rate of success for your defense and less points on the board for the opposing team. If we have guys who are coached properly as to their assignments, put a helmet on an opposing player, and create holes for our talented returners it = oustanding field position for our offense, if not points on the board. In all, ST teams is important and ours is consistently at the top with Bobby April at the helm. I hope we don't ever let this guy walk away from our organization. Now if we could just get an offense and defense to match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 I see this conversation is going nowhere, mainly because numerous people seem to be operating under the false logic that if you have very good special teams, that somehow means your offense and defense must suck. The 3rd and 4th string players that make up the majority of special teams players do not see the light of day in an NFL game usually, so exactly how do these players make the offense or defense suck? Again, if anything, good special teams play will make an offense and defense better than they are because of favorable field position causing the field to be shorter for you and longer for your opponents and scoring extra points. That is bad how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I see this conversation is going nowhere, mainly because numerous people seem to be operating under the false logic that if you have very good special teams, that somehow means your offense and defense must suck. The 3rd and 4th string players that make up the majority of special teams players do not see the light of day in an NFL game usually, so exactly how do these players make the offense or defense suck? Again, if anything, good special teams play will make an offense and defense better than they are because of favorable field position causing the field to be shorter for you and longer for your opponents and scoring extra points. That is bad how? All true - including your previous post, about how the good ST performance aids the Off/Def. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Can we make April the HC yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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