Sources: Cassel formally accepts franchise tag....

[ExiledInIllinois]

He knows how to cheat, it is worth keeping him.

[MattM]

Or a Donahoe II who gave up a 1st rd pick for Drew Bledsoe.

 

He put up Pro Bowl stats those first 8 games for us--too bad that didn't last, but remember, for a good bit it really looked like we were the ones who took them on that trade. Overall, I'd call that one a wash personally.

[Mr. WEO]

I don't get the KC talk at all--you hear a lot of that on Patsy* message boards just because of the Pioli connection. First off, Pioli isn't stupid so he knows Cassel is a system QB (heck, he helped set up the system) and more importantly, the Chiefs have Tyler Thigpen on the cheap and considering the talent he had around him compared to what Cassel had around him, I'd go as far as to say that Thigpen had a better year. I just don't see the Chiefs being in the Cassle hunt. Like Cassel, this mere second year player got better as the season progressed (at least pre-year end bad weather games):

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/...1/game_log.html

 

Thigpen didn't play with two of the best WR in the League (although Bowe and Gonzalez are good players) behind one of the best O-lines in the League (and yet he still had about half the sacks Cassel took). This is also only Thigpen's second year in the League, compared to four for Matty C.

 

Bowe and Gonzalez had more catches and TDs than Moss and Welker, so I woudn't say Thigpen was starving for WR talent.

 

Also, who was Welker before he met Bill Bellichick? As for Moss----we've seen over and over that he stands out when matched with a top QB. Without one, he puts forth a different effort. One might argue that those two are "system WRs", I guess.

 

I agree that Pioli is not going to bid for Cassel. He will see what he's got in Yancy Thigpen. Detroit, hard to say. They are going to spend a ton on a first pick QB (Stafford), but I doubt they would part with the picks. Those are what will make Cassel tough to move. Then again, the Lions have squandered their first round picks worse than that many times.

[MattM]

Bowe and Gonzalez had more catches and TDs than Moss and Welker, so I woudn't say Thigpen was starving for WR talent.

 

Also, who was Welker before he met Bill Bellichick? As for Moss----we've seen over and over that he stands out when matched with a top QB. Without one, he puts forth a different effort. One might argue that those two are "system WRs", I guess.

 

I agree that Pioli is not going to bid for Cassel. He will see what he's got in Yancy Thigpen. Detroit, hard to say. They are going to spend a ton on a first pick QB (Stafford), but I doubt they would part with the picks. Those are what will make Cassel tough to move. Then again, the Lions have squandered their first round picks worse than that many times.

 

Remember, the Lions also have the #20 pick from Dallas for Roy Williams I believe as well as the overall first. That's what the Pats* will ask for from them for Cassel. I just hope they're smart enough to "just say no".....

[Mr. WEO]

Remember, the Lions also have the #20 pick from Dallas for Roy Williams I believe as well as the overall first. That's what the Pats* will ask for from them for Cassel. I just hope they're smart enough to "just say no".....

 

If they don't say no, and give the Pats their #20, then they got Cassel for Roy (who?) Williams, essentially. That's a great deal---especially given that they would be looking at at least what Oakland's 400 lb QB Russell got as the last #1 pick QB---$60 million, $31 MIL guaranteed. At least they know he can play while getting sacked a lot.

[VOR]

This was a no-brainer move for Cassel/his agent. Everyone knows that Cassel isn't even close to a franchise player and that the Patriots only franchised him to get something in trade for him. But now he's at-worst guaranteed to make $14.651M for the next year, which is more than he probably dreamed he'd ever make in his career, let alone one season. The question is, will any team be stupid enough to offer him $14M a year plus trade away a 1st round pick? Paying for potential (like the #1 overall pick, whose contract isn't even as large as the one Cassel will have to look for) is one thing, but while Cassel has played and won games in the NFL, he didn't prove he could beat good teams and that will be a major red flag.

 

The move also put the Patriots in a huge cap bind, because now they're just $3.9M under the cap, and that will still probably be about $1M short of covering the rookie salary cap. They'll also need about $2M to tender RFA's and EFA's, plus another $1M for extra space for injuries.

[Wilson from Gamehendge]

He gets traded in late August once the Pats are comfortable that Brady is okay and a desperate team puts a great offer on the table. Nice move by the Pats.

 

agreed.

 

Someone mentioned the Chiefs and Lions getting Quarterbacks before August, but there are plenty of other teams that are in need of a starting caliber Quarterback. Someone else mentioned that Matt Cassel is only a system Quarterback, but I wouldn't bet on it. Sure he had Randy Moss (and Wes Welker, who I would rather have) and a good line ahead of him. However, the line had some injuries and the running game was very inconsistent.

 

I think Cassel is a very intelligent game manager on the field (makes good decisions), and he is mobile with a decent arm. In most Patroits games I saw, he was showing good leadership abilities on the field and sideline. He was also usually always talking to a coach and/or looking at pictures sent down. Interviews show he has a friendly personality.

 

What do I know, eh? All in all, I think this guy is going to be good, but for a team other than the Patriots.

 

*The other teams I was thinking of were: (Besides Kansas City and Detroit)

+ Tennessee Titans - If Kerry Collins retires, or comes to Buffalo (ha.ha) and Vince Young isn't the answer.

+ New York Jets - If Brett Favre retires. Kellan Clemens? Come on.

+ San Francisco 49ers - Sean Hill, J.T. O'Sullivan and Alex Smith? Again, come on.

+ Chicago Bears - Kyle Orton was alright, Rex Grossman is Losman-ish-ly terrible...they need to upgrade.

+ Minnesota Vikings - Tarvaris Jackson is alright, Gus Frerotte don't cut it. Cassel would make them MUCH better.

+ Buffalo Bills -

WILDCARD + Arizona Cardinals - If Kurt Warner retires, they don't seem high on Matt Leinart...he was not this staff's guy to begin with. Imagine if Cassel became "their guy", ahead of Leinart.

 

I would bet they wouldn't trade him to New York, and maybe even Tennesse, being in the AFC. Bet anything could happen with the right deal. This should get interesting...everything starts today with teams being able to release players officially.

[VOR]

agreed.

 

Someone mentioned the Chiefs and Lions getting Quarterbacks before August, but there are plenty of other teams that are in need of a starting caliber Quarterback. Someone else mentioned that Matt Cassel is only a system Quarterback, but I wouldn't bet on it. Sure he had Randy Moss (and Wes Welker, who I would rather have) and a good line ahead of him. However, the line had some injuries and the running game was very inconsistent.

 

I think Cassel is a very intelligent game manager on the field (makes good decisions), and he is mobile with a decent arm. In most Patroits games I saw, he was showing good leadership abilities on the field and sideline. He was also usually always talking to a coach and/or looking at pictures sent down. Interviews show he has a friendly personality.

 

What do I know, eh? All in all, I think this guy is going to be good, but for a team other than the Patriots.

 

*The other teams I was thinking of were: (Besides Kansas City and Detroit)

+ Tennessee Titans - If Kerry Collins retires, or comes to Buffalo (ha.ha) and Vince Young isn't the answer.

+ New York Jets - If Brett Favre retires. Kellan Clemens? Come on.

+ San Francisco 49ers - Sean Hill, J.T. O'Sullivan and Alex Smith? Again, come on.

+ Chicago Bears - Kyle Orton was alright, Rex Grossman is Losman-ish-ly terrible...they need to upgrade.

+ Minnesota Vikings - Tarvaris Jackson is alright, Gus Frerotte don't cut it. Cassel would make them MUCH better.

+ Buffalo Bills -

WILDCARD + Arizona Cardinals - If Kurt Warner retires, they don't seem high on Matt Leinart...he was not this staff's guy to begin with. Imagine if Cassel became "their guy", ahead of Leinart.

 

I would bet they wouldn't trade him to New York, and maybe even Tennesse, being in the AFC. Bet anything could happen with the right deal. This should get interesting...everything starts today with teams being able to release players officially.

It all depends on what contract numbers Cassel is seeking/has to seek. Since he's been designated a franchise player and the NFLPA has a vested interest in seeing the tag continue to increase, I can't see them allowing anything but a contract averaging at least the franchise tag tender (as has been the case all along). If that holds true, I cannot see any team offering him almost $14.7M a year. The guy can't throw deep and routinely threw behind receivers, while getting sacked a ton behind the exact same O-line that protected Brady so well last year. And when big games came around, he came up small.

[Willis990]

It all depends on what contract numbers Cassel is seeking/has to seek. Since he's been designated a franchise player and the NFLPA has a vested interest in seeing the tag continue to increase, I can't see them allowing anything but a contract averaging at least the franchise tag tender (as has been the case all along). If that holds true, I cannot see any team offering him almost $14.7M a year. The guy can't throw deep and routinely threw behind receivers, while getting sacked a ton behind the exact same O-line that protected Brady so well last year. And when big games came around, he came up small.

 

He has not played since HS. What scouts are looking at is his improvement week to week in the NFL. He killed Miami's D where Trent couldn't do anything against them. Cassell's line: 30 43 415 69.8 64 3 1 114.0

Trent's line against Miami: 21 35 227 60.0 33 0 1 67.2

[VOR]

He has not played since HS. What scouts are looking at is his improvement week to week in the NFL. He killed Miami's D where Trent couldn't do anything against them. Cassell's line: 30 43 415 69.8 64 3 1 114.0

Trent's line against Miami: 21 35 227 60.0 33 0 1 67.2

Cassel's week to week improvement had more to do with facing poor defenses, if not the same poor defenses, than with him suddenly getting it after 4 years in the same offensive system. When he faced a real defense like the Steelers, and even against the Seahawks, his numbers were less than impressive. And if you're going to pay $14M a year for a guy, you want him to be able to play well against even good defenses.

[Willis990]

Cassel's week to week improvement had more to do with facing poor defenses, if not the same poor defenses, than with him suddenly getting it after 4 years in the same offensive system. When he faced a real defense like the Steelers, and even against the Seahawks, his numbers were less than impressive. And if you're going to pay $14M a year for a guy, you want him to be able to play well against even good defenses.

 

 

He will not get 14 million but he will get between 8-10 AAV on a 5-6 year deal. The union can't do anything about it.

[VOR]

He will not get 14 million but he will get between 8-10 AAV on a 5-6 year deal. The union can't do anything about it.

Considering no franchise player has ever signed for less than his franchise tender, I'm betting the union CAN and does do a lot about protecting their coveted franchise tag. But I guess we'll see.

[Mr. WEO]

This was a no-brainer move for Cassel/his agent. Everyone knows that Cassel isn't even close to a franchise player and that the Patriots only franchised him to get something in trade for him. But now he's at-worst guaranteed to make $14.651M for the next year, which is more than he probably dreamed he'd ever make in his career, let alone one season. The question is, will any team be stupid enough to offer him $14M a year plus trade away a 1st round pick? Paying for potential (like the #1 overall pick, whose contract isn't even as large as the one Cassel will have to look for) is one thing, but while Cassel has played and won games in the NFL, he didn't prove he could beat good teams and that will be a major red flag.

 

The move also put the Patriots in a huge cap bind, because now they're just $3.9M under the cap, and that will still probably be about $1M short of covering the rookie salary cap. They'll also need about $2M to tender RFA's and EFA's, plus another $1M for extra space for injuries.

 

So you're saying it would be better to "pay for potential" on some college boy than for a guy who won 11 games in his first starting season since high school?? Wow. Hey, I think there is a spot for you in the "inner circle" of Ralph's "brain trust".

 

And Cassel couldn't beat the good teams in his first year and only 11 games? Hey, maybe the Ptriots will trade up or swap 1st rounders so they can replace the obviously problematic Matt Cassell!

 

And, again, take a look at Russell's contract in Oakland. Whoever picks that QB 1st (Detroit), will pay more than $60 million for "potential" (how's that working out for Oakland so far--over $30 million invested at this point, how many wins?). I don't know who was the last QB franchised and traded, so I am not so sure that whoever gets Cassel will need to offer a contract with "an average" of $14 mil a year.

[Ramius]

So you're saying it would be better to "pay for potential" on some college boy than for a guy who won 11 games in his first starting season since high school?? Wow. Hey, I think there is a spot for you in the "inner circle" of Ralph's "brain trust".

 

And Cassel couldn't beat the good teams in his first year and only 11 games? Hey, maybe the Ptriots will trade up or swap 1st rounders so they can replace the obviously problematic Matt Cassell!

 

And, again, take a look at Russell's contract in Oakland. Whoever picks that QB 1st (Detroit), will pay more than $60 million for "potential" (how's that working out for Oakland so far--over $30 million invested at this point, how many wins?). I don't know who was the last QB franchised and traded, so I am not so sure that whoever gets Cassel will need to offer a contract with "an average" of $14 mil a year.

 

I've looked back, and every "tag and traded" player has signed a new contract equal to or exceeding the franchise tag value. However, cassel is a unique and unprecedented situation. "Normally" a franchise tagged player is worth top-5 money. On the open market, every tagged player prior to cassel would have gotten a deal equal to or exceeding the tag value. Cassel sure as hell isn't. He'd get 7-8 mil on the open market, which is why these negotiations are interesting. The NFLPA has never had a situation where a tagged player signs for less than the tag (assuming cassel is indeed traded).

[nucci]

He gets traded in late August once the Pats are comfortable that Brady is okay and a desperate team puts a great offer on the table. Nice move by the Pats.

That sounds logical, but who will trade for him and pay him $14M? Plus give up a high pick? He is not worth that much. The Pats could be stuck with him for this year.

[Mr. WEO]

I've looked back, and every "tag and traded" player has signed a new contract equal to or exceeding the franchise tag value. However, cassel is a unique and unprecedented situation. "Normally" a franchise tagged player is worth top-5 money. On the open market, every tagged player prior to cassel would have gotten a deal equal to or exceeding the tag value. Cassel sure as hell isn't. He'd get 7-8 mil on the open market, which is why these negotiations are interesting. The NFLPA has never had a situation where a tagged player signs for less than the tag (assuming cassel is indeed traded).

 

His situation is unique because is a QB. The money is an order of magnitude beyond what a WR, an OT or even DB would command if franchised. There is no precedent for this. That and the fact that he is Matt Cassel, NOT Tom Brady, will make it very difficult for the NFLPA to make a persuasive argument that he should be treated like Nate Clements, for example.

 

I'm guessing that's what the Pats are assuming.

[Ramius]

His situation is unique because is a QB. The money is an order of magnitude beyond what a WR, an OT or even DB would command if franchised. There is no precedent for this. That and the fact that he is Matt Cassel, NOT Tom Brady, will make it very difficult for the NFLPA to make a persuasive argument that he should be treated like Nate Clements, for example.

 

I'm guessing that's what the Pats are assuming.

 

The simple premise is that any tagged and traded player has never signed for less than the franchise tag. Clements was tagged, but he hit the open market the following year. What VOR and I are referring to is the situation where Cassel is traded to some other team where he would presumably sign a long term extension. If he's not traded, my point is moot, because he'll play out the season under the franchise tender and make his 14 million.

[Mr. WEO]

The simple premise is that any tagged and traded player has never signed for less than the franchise tag. Clements was tagged, but he hit the open market the following year. What VOR and I are referring to is the situation where Cassel is traded to some other team where he would presumably sign a long term extension. If he's not traded, my point is moot, because he'll play out the season under the franchise tender and make his 14 million.

 

Even so, if he is tagged and traded this year, my point stands--it would be unprecedented for a QB and would therefore be difficult for the NFLPA to simply point to the past as a justification for such a demand. There is none for this postition.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Note to people who say we should franchise Greer. This is why you don't do that. If the player knows he really isn't going to get top five salary on the open market, you sign the tender. This year an added twist might be that salaries tend to be down a bit becasue of economy. Teams may not be willing to spend as much. However tender offers are based on past year, so by accepting again good way to get top $$

[Pneumonic]

The union only has a beef with the team doing the tagging, that they are in compliance with the terms of the CBA that specifies that they act in good faith to employ tagged player at the franchise tender amount. IOW, this sets the bar for a long term extension given to a tagged player by the team that has tagged him. If the Pats wish to retain Cassel and give him a long terms deal than they have to act in good faith by offering him a deal that pays him the franchise amount over that deal.

 

Once traded, the union can't do jack as it's the market, and not the players union, which sets player contract value. Cassel will get whatever some team is willing to pay him.