/dev/null Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 http://infotech.indiatimes.com/News/IBM_to...how/4085361.cms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjamie12 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 http://infotech.indiatimes.com/News/IBM_to...how/4085361.cms That's really not a bad idea at all.... I mean, there have to be at least a few of those people that were laid off that would want to live abroad for a few years, right? If I were given the option, right now, of staying here and being laid off versus moving to India or an Eastern European country, I would certainly have to think very long and hard about it. The advancement opportunities in a company like IBM after a move like that can (and most likely would) be tremendous as soon as the global economy turns around. I would bet that you'd set yourself up pretty nicely with that move. It's certainly not for everyone, but a very good opportunity for some nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 That's really not a bad idea at all.... I mean, there have to be at least a few of those people that were laid off that would want to live abroad for a few years, right? If I were given the option, right now, of staying here and being laid off versus moving to India or an Eastern European country, I would certainly have to think very long and hard about it. The advancement opportunities in a company like IBM after a move like that can (and most likely would) be tremendous as soon as the global economy turns around. I would bet that you'd set yourself up pretty nicely with that move. It's certainly not for everyone, but a very good opportunity for some nonetheless. A family member of mine is living in Taiwan with his wife and two children. With the way things are going, the ex-pat community around the world will surely grow. I can see the headline now: "Lazy American workers just don't want to move and work overseas." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Is this really any different than generations of Buffalonians and others fleeing the bleak economic future of the decaying big government states? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Is this really any different than generations of Buffalonians and others fleeing the bleak economic future of the decaying big government states? No. Except I went to another supposedly "decaying gov't state"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 That's really not a bad idea at all.... I mean, there have to be at least a few of those people that were laid off that would want to live abroad for a few years, right? If I were given the option, right now, of staying here and being laid off versus moving to India or an Eastern European country, I would certainly have to think very long and hard about it. The advancement opportunities in a company like IBM after a move like that can (and most likely would) be tremendous as soon as the global economy turns around. I would bet that you'd set yourself up pretty nicely with that move. It's certainly not for everyone, but a very good opportunity for some nonetheless. You, my friend, are a true blue nutcase. You need help! IBM is making an offer that they have no intention of following through with. They will not hire or transfer ANY American and move them overseas. The cost would be prohibitive. This is just a PR stunt by IBM so they can get good media coverage. They're moving the jobs to save money, not spend money. Plus, they know no American is going to move over there and work for slave wages with the false-hope of being promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 You, my friend, are a true blue nutcase. You need help! IBM is making an offer that they have no intention of following through with. They will not hire or transfer ANY American and move them overseas. The cost would be prohibitive. This is just a PR stunt by IBM so they can get good media coverage. They're moving the jobs to save money, not spend money. Plus, they know no American is going to move over there and work for slave wages with the false-hope of being promoted. Maybe. I will tell you... If I worked for IBM I would take them up on the offer. I did similar when I started working for the Corps of Enginners... Out of college, I started in BFLO at 22 working in hydrographic survey as an survey aid... Making 6 bucks an hour... Traveling 5 days a week between Toldeo, OH and Watertown, NY... Sometimes staying out of town on weekends to get the per diem expenses... Between Rock River, OH and Erie, PA I probably spent the most time holed up in... The important thing is I got my foot in the door... That job with BFLO district went away quickly (within 2 years) when there was a RIF and one of the hydraulic survey crews (mine) was eliminated... I bounced to the lock at Black Rock for a spell and then bounced to the midwest back in survey (moved to the midwest making 8 bucks an hour... Even convinced them to PCS me and pay for my moving expenses (unheard of in such a low paying job)) and then on to my present job... I now make well over well over 5 times an hour and have over 15 years federal service. I laugh at all the people that they (the Corps) may have tried get to first take the original job and those people who turned them down because of the low wage. Point is, everything has a silver lining... Even though my first wages were low, I basically lived off the travel expenses paid and the per diem/milelage when I was on TDY with survey... funny how things work out when YOU TRY and are willing to do anything. Heck, I would move to India and if I was not married now and had young children, I would surely take the Corps up on their numerous (and desparate) offers of doing some TDY in Iraq... Some I have worked with have been there on multiple assignments making well over double what they make at their permanent duty station. Again... I would call IBM's bluff... I am pretty much set, I sure hope the younger generation knows an opportunity when they see it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Maybe. I will tell you... If I worked for IBM I would take them up on the offer. I did similar when I started working for the Corps of Enginners... Out of college, I started in BFLO at 22 working in hydrographic survey as an survey aid... Making 6 bucks an hour... Traveling 5 days a week between Toldeo, OH and Watertown, NY... Sometimes staying out of town on weekends to get the per diem expenses... Between Rock River, OH and Erie, PA I probably spent the most time holed up in... The important thing is I got my foot in the door... That job with BFLO district went away quickly (within 2 years) when there was a RIF and one of the hydraulic survey crews (mine) was eliminated... I bounced to the lock at Black Rock for a spell and then bounced to the midwest back in survey (moved to the midwest making 8 bucks an hour... Even convinced them to PCS me and pay for my moving expenses (unheard of in such a low paying job)) and then on to my present job... I now make well over well over 5 times an hour and have over 15 years federal service. I laugh at all the people that they (the Corps) may have tried get to first take the original job and those people who turned them down because of the low wage. Point is, everything has a silver lining... Even though my first wages were low, I basically lived off the travel expenses paid and the per diem/milelage when I was on TDY with survey... funny how things work out when YOU TRY and are willing to do anything. Heck, I would move to India and if I was not married now and had young children, I would surely take the Corps up on their numerous (and desparate) offers of doing some TDY in Iraq... Some I have worked with have been there on multiple assignments making well over double what they make at their permanent duty station. Again... I would call IBM's bluff... I am pretty much set, I sure hope the younger generation knows an opportunity when they see it! I don't doubt your story. However, I don't think this is a very similiar situation. If it is, then I'm wrong. But I truely would not take them up on their offer under any circumstances. It's a family thing . . . like you related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I don't doubt your story. However, I don't think this is a very similiar situation. If it is, then I'm wrong. But I truely would not take them up on their offer under any circumstances. It's a family thing . . . like you related. I do understand... Big difference between relocating to one end of the earth than what I did 650 miles away... At least I could see my family and drive back to BFLO... My now wife at the time was even going to school at the U of I in Champaign/Urbana... So that made things easy if you know what I mean!!... Even early on if I was spending say the weekend anywhere between Conneaut and Toledo, Ohio... I could still shoot down to Champaign and shave half a trip off and still be on per diem!... Just as long as I back to work at one of those harbors by 0700 Monday... Sucked when I was in Fair Haven, Sodus, Irondequoit or anywhere else on Lake Ontario! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I do understand... Big difference between relocating to one end of the earth than what I did 650 miles away... At least I could see my family and drive back to BFLO... My now wife at the time was even going to school at the U of I in Champaign/Urbana... So that made things easy if you know what I mean!!... Even early on if I was spending say the weekend anywhere between Conneaut and Toledo, Ohio... I could still shoot down to Champaign and shave half a trip off and still be on per diem!... Just as long as I back to work at one of those harbors by 0700 Monday... Sucked when I was in Fair Haven, Sodus, Irondequoit or anywhere else on Lake Ontario! Interesting. Sounds like you made the best of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjamie12 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 You, my friend, are a true blue nutcase. You need help! IBM is making an offer that they have no intention of following through with. They will not hire or transfer ANY American and move them overseas. The cost would be prohibitive. This is just a PR stunt by IBM so they can get good media coverage. They're moving the jobs to save money, not spend money. Plus, they know no American is going to move over there and work for slave wages with the false-hope of being promoted. I don't know what IBM's 'true' intentions are any more than you do... Just a quick scan of the jobs showed many, many jobs in Prague or Budapest (so I'll assume that at least some of those Eastern European job offers would be there). You DO realize people voluntarily leave this country to go work in places like that for many reasons, all the time, right? All I know is this: If I had the choice of staying here in Hamburg with no job, or moving to Prague for a few years? It would be a tough choice... I'd probably end up in Prague. You've got to go where the jobs are, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I don't know what IBM's 'true' intentions are any more than you do... Just a quick scan of the jobs showed many, many jobs in Prague or Budapest (so I'll assume that at least some of those Eastern European job offers would be there). You DO realize people voluntarily leave this country to go work in places like that for many reasons, all the time, right? All I know is this: If I had the choice of staying here in Hamburg with no job, or moving to Prague for a few years? It would be a tough choice... I'd probably end up in Prague. You've got to go where the jobs are, don't you? I would never leave this country to get a job. Actually, I might go to Canada but that's about it. Because you don't know how what's going to happen to that country from a government perspective. Look what happened to Cuba. Remember when the mafia had gambling casinos there and Castro came in. They lost everything. Not that it was very legit, but you know what I'm talking about? The same thing can happen, especially in a country like India or China. So let IBM and all those stupid companies move. I hope they lose their sh--. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I would never leave this country to get a job. Actually, I might go to Canada but that's about it. Because you don't know how what's going to happen to that country from a government perspective. Look what happened to Cuba. Remember when the mafia had gambling casinos there and Castro came in. They lost everything. Not that it was very legit, but you know what I'm talking about? The same thing can happen, especially in a country like India or China. So let IBM and all those stupid companies move. I hope they lose their sh--. Also take for example about the poor ex-pats around WWII in the Pacific... Was it Midway? Or should I really cringe, China. That is the chance you take I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjamie12 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Also take for example about the poor ex-pats around WWII in the Pacific... Was it Midway? Or should I really cringe, China. That is the chance you take I guess. There's no question you're taking a chance... but in this hypothetical example, wouldn't you ALSO be taking a chance by sticking around Hamburg hoping to land a job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 There's no question you're taking a chance... but in this hypothetical example, wouldn't you ALSO be taking a chance by sticking around Hamburg hoping to land a job? Heck, where I have been working the last 15 or so years! I tell my wife if she ever comes out and brings me lunch or visits and is cutting across 127th street through Calumet Park, Illinois to 130th street (Chicago)... And gets a flat tire... KEEP ON DRIVING on the rim till you get to the gate... What is a phucked up car in the grand scheme of things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I don't know what IBM's 'true' intentions are any more than you do... Just a quick scan of the jobs showed many, many jobs in Prague or Budapest (so I'll assume that at least some of those Eastern European job offers would be there). You DO realize people voluntarily leave this country to go work in places like that for many reasons, all the time, right? All I know is this: If I had the choice of staying here in Hamburg with no job, or moving to Prague for a few years? It would be a tough choice... I'd probably end up in Prague. You've got to go where the jobs are, don't you? Ever do any fishing in 18 mile ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 IBM secretly has laid off over 5K US employees the day after announcing record 2008 profits. The claim to provide financial support sounds alot better than what is actually happening, the article is full of the IBM political machine at work. While the CEO was off kissing up to Obama he was laying of thousands while taking more and more in options and bonuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 You, my friend, are a true blue nutcase. You need help! IBM is making an offer that they have no intention of following through with. They will not hire or transfer ANY American and move them overseas. The cost would be prohibitive. This is just a PR stunt by IBM so they can get good media coverage. They're moving the jobs to save money, not spend money. Plus, they know no American is going to move over there and work for slave wages with the false-hope of being promoted. Not true. Why would the cost be prohibitive? They said they would pay local wages. So the only extra costs are moving expenses, which is a pretty cheap one-time expense for getting a guy in place who you know can perform. And slave wages are relative. Are you saying that no New Yorker would ever leave the city and work for slave wages in Virginia, NC, or Texas? And what about the 90's, when Americans began flocking to places like Prague? If you think they were making American salaries - or even Irish, for that matter - yopu are sorely mistaken. Pretty dumb post, frankly, and it's becoming hard to tell if you are doing it intentionally. Are you trying to imitate ieatcrayonz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Not true. Why would the cost be prohibitive? They said they would pay local wages. So the only extra costs are moving expenses, which is a pretty cheap one-time expense for getting a guy in place who you know can perform. And slave wages are relative. Are you saying that no New Yorker would ever leave the city and work for slave wages in Virginia, NC, or Texas? And what about the 90's, when Americans began flocking to places like Prague? If you think they were making American salaries - or even Irish, for that matter - yopu are sorely mistaken. Pretty dumb post, frankly, and it's becoming hard to tell if you are doing it intentionally. Are you trying to imitate ieatcrayonz? No it's not dumb. I see your point, however, I don't agree with it. From what I understand, friggin companies won't even pay moving expenses any longer. So I doubt very seriously that IBM will really hire Americans in the jobs they say they're going to. And I think it's foolish to take jobs in places like Prague, but that's my own view point, given all that's considered when taking a job. I will say I would rather work for 25k a year and not travel, rather than work a career or job for 100K a year and be on the road for something like 200 days a year. I think that's just nuts. There's no quality of life. Some others would think I'm nuts. But I hate travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 From what I understand, friggin companies won't even pay moving expenses any longer. So I doubt very seriously that IBM will really hire Americans in the jobs they say they're going to. Given a choice between starting up an operation with all unknown local employees and being able to seed it with some known employees from the 'head office' at a one-time cost of 10k per employee, I would jump at the chance of ensuring that there are some employees in place that are attuned to the way the company likes to do business. As it is, a company frequently need to direct a manager to relocate, and an involuntary relocation costs more like 100k. So a handfull of 10's on top of that is nothing, and well worth the advantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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