San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 The devolution into extremism is simply one of the sadder aspects of humanity. It happens in the larger culture with folks from MSNBC to Fox-TV making big bucks off pandering to extreme views even though both networks are often quite stupid in their depictions of reality. If this can happen regarding the serious issues of war and peace, its no wonder that also it becomes a part of important trivia like the NFL. I think that the attitude which can serve one best is to generally roll your eyes at this silliness and comment from time to time on the bizarrely extreme view of the world that was shown in the lead post in this thread. You're absolutely right on this Dazed, I don't know if people are too mentally lazy to thoughtfully engage topics or if they've been conditioned by the media to be hyperbolic, contrary, and knee-jerk but there's a huge shortage in our society of people who can look at a situation evenly and objectively and with understanding. For instance, there's been numerous NFL teams in the past few years which have gone from worst to first. That right there tells you that the difference between winning and losing, and success and failure in this entire world is considerably smaller than those who make it a hobby to criticize other people's life's work would imagine to think. Between two extremes is a vast expanse of middle ground. Between black and white is a multitude of shades of grey. The failure to recognize this is part of what social commentators often call "the dumbing down of America." And it's too bad it's so prevalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Quint Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I liek winning too. That's why I could care less how many tds a QB throws. The guy wanted to kill himself and quit football 6 months ago. You call that a winner? I disagree with the poster that he's a draft bust, but he certainly isn't a solid QB and he hasn't played up to the level of the 3rd overall pick. That doesn't necessarily make him an all out bust, but he's not off to a very strong start in his career. If he can overcome all the turnovers, his personal problems, and his inaccuracy, then he may be able to make it, but the people who think that he has some sort of all world talent or is a proven winner are mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 The guy wanted to kill himself and quit football 6 months ago. You call that a winner? I disagree with the poster that he's a draft bust, but he certainly isn't a solid QB and he hasn't played up to the level of the 3rd overall pick. That doesn't necessarily make him an all out bust, but he's not off to a very strong start in his career. If he can overcome all the turnovers, his personal problems, and his inaccuracy, then he may be able to make it, but the people who think that he has some sort of all world talent or is a proven winner are mistaken. I make my judgement that he is a winner based on his college record and NFL record. You can base it on his mental issues 6 months ago if you like. He does have all world talent and to deny it is foolish. All skill position players who get drafted in the top 3 have big time talent. Talent doesn't equal success but don't deny the obvious. Again, I'm not trying to say he's the next coming of Montana but take a break from the negativity people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 The guy wanted to kill himself and quit football 6 months ago. You call that a winner? Actually, I'd call that irrelevant. And, we don't know that he actually considered suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I'd say that he has to be right up there at this point. The guy was a #3 overall pick with expectations that exceed the place that he was selected at. how can expectations get any higher then they are for the #3 overall pick? pretty much the same as the #1 overall pick especially for QBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Quint Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Actually, I'd call that irrelevant. And, we don't know that he actually considered suicide. Its true that we don't know for sure what he was thinking, but mentioning it several times to your therapist, as you drive away from your house with a gun is a pretty telling sign that it did at least cross his mind. But you're right that this wouldn't have any bearing on if he's a winner in the NFL or not. I just threw it in there. Wanting to quit football is another story. Who wants someone on their team who doesn't want to be there? Especially at the NFL level. Like I said before, if he can overcome turnovers, his personal problems, and his inaccuracy, then he might make it as a QB in the NFL. But he hasn't proven anything so far other than that they drafted him too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Wanting to quit football is another story. Who wants someone on their team who doesn't want to be there? Especially at the NFL level. Bret Favre actually quit. Did anyone question his desire, or whether he had it in him to be a winner, last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Quint Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Bret Favre actually quit. Did anyone question his desire, or whether he had it in him to be a winner, last year? Favre wanted to quit prior to his 3rd season because the crowd booed him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Favre wanted to quit prior to his 3rd season because the crowd booed him? No. But, I was just responding to your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Vince Young, as he was in rookie year, is a hell of an athlete, but an absolute garbage passer. Which is why he'll never be anything more than a mediocre QB. Time and time again, it has been proven that you can't win consistently without a good passer. The titans may make the playoffs with him behind the helm, but they'll never reach the top unless VY becomes a passer. 9 TD, 17 INT seasons (22 TD and 32 INT's on his career) with a career 68 passer rating aren't going to take the titans anywhere. Sure he'll make the highlite reels, but if the titans want to win, VY will have to develop more into a passer and less of a scrambler. Collins is a huge reason why the titans did so well this year. He didn't turn the ball over. With young at the helm, chances are the titans go 9-7/10-6 instead of 13-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Quint Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 No. But, I was just responding to your point. Electing to come out of retirement after 16(?) NFL seasons shows that he did want to play. VY, a 3rd year player, said that he wanted to quit football. I guess they do share one similarity, but its hard to compare those two in any respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Electing to come out of retirement after 16(?) NFL seasons shows that he did want to play. VY, a 3rd year player, said that he wanted to quit football. I guess they do share one similarity, but its hard to compare those two in any respect. I was just busting your chops. I understand the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Quint Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I was just busting your chops. I understand the difference. I figured as much considering the source, but you just never know the extent to which some people will go to prove their side of something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I can't believe what I'm reading. I understand that some may not approve of Vince Young... ...but to call a player that is arguably better than any Buffalo Bill right now one of the great all-time busts is absolutely insane. I have no idea how people actually rallied around the OP. VY was the rookie of the year, led his team to the playoffs the following year, and is still incredibly young. Calling him a bust pretty much tells me that you're not worthy to be a Bills fan. How can you honestly be dissatisfied with a player that most of us would like to have on our team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I can't believe what I'm reading. I understand that some may not approve of Vince Young... ...but to call a player that is arguably better than any Buffalo Bill right now one of the great all-time busts is absolutely insane. I have no idea how people actually rallied around the OP. VY was the rookie of the year, led his team to the playoffs the following year, and is still incredibly young. Calling him a bust pretty much tells me that you're not worthy to be a Bills fan. How can you honestly be dissatisfied with a player that most of us would like to have on our team? While I agree with your premise, let's not go too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax bill backer Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Vince young was the best qb to never win a hiesman. maybe the best qb in college all time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I can't believe what I'm reading. I understand that some may not approve of Vince Young... ...but to call a player that is arguably better than any Buffalo Bill right now one of the great all-time busts is absolutely insane. I have no idea how people actually rallied around the OP. VY was the rookie of the year, led his team to the playoffs the following year, and is still incredibly young. Calling him a bust pretty much tells me that you're not worthy to be a Bills fan. How can you honestly be dissatisfied with a player that most of us would like to have on our team? and by leading his team to the playoffs, you mean riding on the back of a great defense? THe only reason the titans were even in 90% of their games was because the defense didn't allow the other team to capitalize on VY's gigantic amount of turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I can't believe what I'm reading. I understand that some may not approve of Vince Young... ...but to call a player that is arguably better than any Buffalo Bill right now one of the great all-time busts is absolutely insane. I have no idea how people actually rallied around the OP. VY was the rookie of the year, led his team to the playoffs the following year, and is still incredibly young. Calling him a bust pretty much tells me that you're not worthy to be a Bills fan. How can you honestly be dissatisfied with a player that most of us would like to have on our team? I hate to sound like a broken record, but I refuse to apologize for not wanting a QB with a 68.8 QB rating who's only gotten worse since his rookie year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Vince Young, as he was in rookie year, is a hell of an athlete, but an absolute garbage passer. Which is why he'll never be anything more than a mediocre QB. Time and time again, it has been proven that you can't win consistently without a good passer. The titans may make the playoffs with him behind the helm, but they'll never reach the top unless VY becomes a passer. 9 TD, 17 INT seasons (22 TD and 32 INT's on his career) with a career 68 passer rating aren't going to take the titans anywhere. Sure he'll make the highlite reels, but if the titans want to win, VY will have to develop more into a passer and less of a scrambler. Collins is a huge reason why the titans did so well this year. He didn't turn the ball over. With young at the helm, chances are the titans go 9-7/10-6 instead of 13-3. I might be crazy but the kid has only played two seasons. He makes mistakes sure but he makes up for alot of them with spectacular plays as well. Is it possible he could improve his passing? Vince Young never had to play in a traditional Qb role in college and I think he has adapted about as well as could be expected. IMO he was more about potential than he was polish coming out of college. I completely agree with you that he needs to be a passer first to have success in the NFL but that doesn't happen over night. Meanwhile prior to his injury he won games for his team with his athletic ability. You might be right that VY drops a couple more games than Collins this year. On the otherhand maybe the Titans aren't one and done in the playoffs and VY makes something happen where Collins couldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I hate to sound like a broken record, but I refuse to apologize for not wanting a QB with a 68.8 QB rating who's only gotten worse since his rookie year. He played one year after his rookie season and was injured alot of it! What are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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