RShirley Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 Has tackling been the main criticism of Whitner? Sammy Morris doesn't think he is a very good tackler
San-O Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 I dont think you can look purely at stats. Didnt the defense improve greatly this season? Wasnt the opposing offense on the field less than in previous years? Didnt we have a better run defense where the safety doesnt need to make the tackle? Just a few things too look at. The Bills were tied for 27th in the league with 10 INTs this past year. Whitner had 0, which is 1 less than he had last year. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...e&Submit=Go
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 Since it is a given that pass defense is not his strong suit, it is in my eyes. I can live with a safety whose coverage skills are somewhat lacking, but makes up for it in terms of his run defense. In the case of Whitner, his run defense this past year was below average and his pass defense even worst. Wait...well what about his ability to make game changing plays? That would also be non-existent. Why does everybody think players can be sorted into two categories: Playmakers and non-playmakers. Do you actually think that there are good players who are just categorically unable to make game-changing plays. To most people here, an opposing cornerback or safety could have a ball thrown directly at him and he would be labelled a "gamechanger". If we get an excellent pass rusher, and due to that Whitner returns 2 INTs for TDs next season, does that suddenly put him in the "gamechanger" category? It's just such a non-academic way to look at things.
Ramius Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 the main reason I think there is such an undercurrent of resentment at Whitner is because he was drafted at 8. That's something that, at this point, does not matter at all. Should we have drafted Ngata there? Sure. But we didn't, so get over it and deal with what we actually have rather than wishing on yesterday. This is TBD. We run 1st round draft picks and good players out town all the time. Its just what we do. Since 1 2004 1st rounder re-signed, another isn't with the team, and we had no 2005 1st, its time to move along to run the 2006 1st rounders out of town.
San-O Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 This is TBD. We run 1st round draft picks and good players out town all the time. Its just what we do. Since 1 2004 1st rounder re-signed, another isn't with the team, and we had no 2005 1st, its time to move along to run the 2006 1st rounders out of town. Well, I think the Front Office has already started, with attempting the unsuccessful trade of McCargo. http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft...0&type=team
Dawgg Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 You factored in everything but his play on the field.....no big deal, who worries about that anyways when handing out millions of dollars. The Bills sure don't care! Whitner was awful last year. I hope he improves this year and earns his paycheck. It would be a nice change from the past 3 years.
RShirley Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 The Bills sure don't care! Whitner was awful last year. I hope he improves this year and earns his paycheck. It would be a nice change from the past 3 years. There are people who will make every excuse in the book for Marv's "golden boy"........ they want it so much in their head to be that it was a great pick......that Marv Levy proved all the naysayers wrong that thought it was a reach at #8. It is called denial.............but if you look with an objective eye, the guy has been a flat out disappointment.
The Dean Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 The Bills sure don't care! Whitner was awful last year, after the injury. Fixed. He was actually pretty good, before it, and wasn't really awful afterward, but wasn't playing at a high level. But, I know you can't be objective in this matter. They should extend Donte, ASAP, as his value is probably lower now, due to the injury (and subsequent relatively poor performance), than it will be later. The alternative is likely that will see him him go somewhere else and just KILL on another team, with a coach who lets him play a more aggressive style. And then we will B word about how they let him go. If you remember, Winfield used to get trashed by many on this board, by those who know little of DB play, because he had few INTs (and didn't make "big plays") Now, all they do is pine for him, and blame the team for letting him go.
Dawgg Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 .but if you look with an objective eye, the guy has been a flat out disappointment. You hit the nail on the head. Very few posters are capable of viewing the Bills' moves from an objective angle. These are the same posters who thought McCargo was a good pick.
The Dean Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 There are people who will make every excuse in the book for Marv's "golden boy"........ they want it so much in their head to be that it was a great pick......that Marv Levy proved all the naysayers wrong that thought it was a reach at #8. It is called denial.............but if you look with an objective eye, the guy has been a flat out disappointment. You hit the nail on the head. Very few posters are capable of viewing the Bills' moves from an objective angle. These are the same posters who thought McCargo was a good pick. When it come to re-signing a player, only an idiot cares about in what round that player was drafted. If the player is valuable to the team, young, affordable, etc, you try to keep him. The whining about who the Bills might have drafted, and if the pick was a mistake, is something that is irrelevant to today's team. Write an article about the history of the Bills, and give your analysis of the mistakes that may have been made, but the discussion of that draft doesn't really matter, when it comes to what to do with Donte, for the Bills' future. Sometimes I have to wonder about the level of pissing and moaning that goes on, here...usually by the same posters...in threads that are devoted to a discussion of what to do NEXT. The inability of some to refrain from airing their grievances in every single thread, makes me think this is a Festivus board, and not a Bills' board. You guys should concentrate on showing your brilliance by discussing what the Bills should (and might realistically) do, to improve, instead of incessantly discussing what occurred several years ago. The drafting of Whitner has been discussed to death. We aren't about to change each others' opinions on whether it was a good, or bad, pick. We can, however, have a positive discussion about what to do next, I would hope.
bananathumb Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 When it come to re-signing a player, only an idiot cares about in what round that player was drafted. If the player is valuable to the team, young, affordable, etc, you try to keep him. The whining about who the Bills might have drafted, and if the pick was a mistake, is something that is irrelevant to today's team. Write an article about the history of the Bills, and give your analysis of the mistakes that may have been made, but the discussion of that draft doesn't really matter, when it comes to what to do with Donte, for the Bills' future. Sometimes I have to wonder about the level of pissing and moaning that goes on, here...usually by the same posters...in threads that are devoted to a discussion of what to do NEXT. The inability of some to refrain from airing their grievances in every single thread, makes me think this is a Festivus board, and not a Bills' board. You guys should concentrate on showing your brilliance by discussing what the Bills should (and might realistically) do, to improve, instead of incessantly discussing what occurred several years ago. The drafting of Whitner has been discussed to death. We aren't about to change each others' opinions on whether it was a good, or bad, pick. We can, however, have a positive discussion about what to do next, I would hope. Whitner is slow (see Johnny Lee burn pat him) Whitner can't cover (see Randy out-leap him the end zone) Whitner can't tackle (see Sammy run over him at the LOS) Want more evidence? He can't make big plays...0 ints in 08. I'd rather have a guy as captain who can take an interception to the house than a guy who invites the team over to his house for nachos.
RShirley Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 When it come to re-signing a player, only an idiot cares about in what round that player was drafted. If the player is valuable to the team, young, affordable, etc, you try to keep him. The whining about who the Bills might have drafted, and if the pick was a mistake, is something that is irrelevant to today's team. Write an article about the history of the Bills, and give your analysis of the mistakes that may have been made, but the discussion of that draft doesn't really matter, when it comes to what to do with Donte, for the Bills' future. Sometimes I have to wonder about the level of pissing and moaning that goes on, here...usually by the same posters...in threads that are devoted to a discussion of what to do NEXT. The inability of some to refrain from airing their grievances in every single thread, makes me think this is a Festivus board, and not a Bills' board. You guys should concentrate on showing your brilliance by discussing what the Bills should (and might realistically) do, to improve, instead of incessantly discussing what occurred several years ago. The drafting of Whitner has been discussed to death. We aren't about to change each others' opinions on whether it was a good, or bad, pick. We can, however, have a positive discussion about what to do next, I would hope. I am not dwelling on the past............I am only trying to point out why people are turning a blind eye to Whitner..........but in terms of the future........I don't know how you can throw tons of money at someone who has been such a disappointment........he has Chris Kelsay written all over him.
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 Whitner is slow (see Johnny Lee burn pat him) Whitner can't cover (see Randy out-leap him the end zone) Whitner can't tackle (see Sammy run over him at the LOS) Want more evidence? He can't make big plays...0 ints in 08. I'd rather have a guy as captain who can take an interception to the house than a guy who invites the team over to his house for nachos. Yeah, missing one tackle and getting beaten by one of the 5 best WRs in the history of the NFL means he sucks. See my post above about him "not being able to make big plays".
IndyJay1234 Posted February 4, 2009 Author Posted February 4, 2009 Wow.. Simply asked if you all thought Donte was getting an extension this week. With all the Hatred for Whitner, Peters, Kelsay, Denney, Schobel, Walker, Dockery, Bills player to be whipping boy next week. Why is this board so surprised/disappointed to see the Bills lose week after week. Obviously the Bills have the wrong players, wrong coach, wrong owner.... Better question... Why do some of you still cheer for the Bills? Is it a desire to be unhappy?
LabattBlue Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 Why does everybody think players can be sorted into two categories: Playmakers and non-playmakers. Do you actually think that there are good players who are just categorically unable to make game-changing plays. To most people here, an opposing cornerback or safety could have a ball thrown directly at him and he would be labelled a "gamechanger". If we get an excellent pass rusher, and due to that Whitner returns 2 INTs for TDs next season, does that suddenly put him in the "gamechanger" category? It's just such a non-academic way to look at things. So you are saying that it is not possible for Whitner to break up a pass or come up with an interception unless the QB is under pressure? This is the guy who the Bills should build a defense around?
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 So you are saying that it is not possible for Whitner to break up a pass or come up with an interception unless the QB is under pressure? This is the guy who the Bills should build a defense around? Well that's how the majority of interceptions occur, and we rarely pressure the QB.
PushthePile Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 Well that's how the majority of interceptions occur, and we rarely pressure the QB. Sage you state the obvious. I'm suprised it's even being contested.
BillnutinHouston Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 Whitner is slow (see Johnny Lee burn pat him) Whitner can't cover (see Randy out-leap him the end zone) Whitner can't tackle (see Sammy run over him at the LOS) Want more evidence? He can't make big plays...0 ints in 08. I'd rather have a guy as captain who can take an interception to the house than a guy who invites the team over to his house for nachos. What he said.
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 This Whitner hate is just getting pathetic. The guy is 23 years old and has been nothing but positive about Buffalo and the Bills since he's been here. He has played multiple positions and has been a rock in a shaky defense. Whitner didn't pick himself #8th, but he at the very bottom of our problems. He's only gonna get better. Oh and Bob Sanders had exactly 0 sacks and 2 INTs after his 3rd season in the NFL. http://www.nfl.com/players/bobsanders/profile?id=SAN287153 Good thing he wasn't on the Bills or some of genius would have run him out of town before he became Defensive player of the year.
The Dean Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 So you are saying that it is not possible for Whitner to break up a pass or come up with an interception unless the QB is under pressure? This is the guy who the Bills should build a defense around? Other than the lack of pressure by the Bills defense line, which has been mentioned, let's not forget that Donte has mostly been used in primary coverage, or playing closer to the line to stop the run. The Bills have rarely let him roam, blitz. or operate without a primary coverage assignment, as most Safeties (Strong and Free). Interceptions, or break-ups usually occur when the safety has some ability to go to the ball, without abandoning an primary assignment. Putting aside the post-injury games for a moment, Whitner rarely got beaten on pass plays (in fact, rarely got thrown on) when he was in primary coverage, and missed very few tackles. Now, all DBs get burnt from time-to-time, and all defensive players miss the occasional tackle (witness Troy P in the SB), or take an occasional bad angle. I don't think anyone claims that Whitner was perfect, and never made a mistake. But, those mistakes were very few, and very far between. His play for the team has been extremely solid, and he has been the most versitle player on the team, invaluable during the injury-packed 2007 season and during a short stretch of 2008. Even Dawwg, a long time Whitner detractor (based on his draft pick) has admitted in the past that Donte was solid, if unspectacular. Now, because of his relatively poor play since returning from the injury (anyone should have been able to see he was struggling out there, physically) Dawgg uses his diminished performance at the end of the season to defame his entire career with the Bills. I'll start taking posters like Dawgg seriously, when they post pros and cons, show up to credit the Bills or the coach/owner/player, when something goes well, focus as much on the future as they do on the past, and drop their obvious agendas, that they push in thread-after-thread.
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