cantstopbeastmode Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I keep reading on here about how what the team really needs is this or that. If we had Kurt Warner, we'd be in the playoffs. If we didn't trade for JP, we could have Bob Sanders. If we had "difference makers," maybe we'd have a chance. YOU GUYS WILL NEVER GET IT. Look at our favorite division rival, the Patriots. They lost THE BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE in week one and substituted him with A GUY WHO HASN'T STARTED SINCE HIGH SCHOOL. They lost their first rd rb and beat us with BenJarvus Green Ellis. People say that great players can overcome poor coaching but not vice versa. NO. ITS THE EXACT OPPOSITE. If some of you claim that Jim Leonhard has become a "difference maker," then you're just wrong. He's the same guy he was here. You guys would be surprised to see how big of difference makers Lynch, Trent, Lee, Roscoe, Leodis, Poz, Stroud, Mitchell, Jackson, Greer, and Whitner are. Give us Bill Belichick and I bet we're pretty damn near close playing last sunday. They made it to 11-5 with Cassel and Ellis as their studs. They won in the past with Troy Brown as the #1 WR. They went 11-5 after one of their main difference makers, Asante Samuel, left. Get a clue. If anything, we're really good at drafting difference makers. Not too many teams have picked up Mckelvin, Lynch, Posluszny, etc in the past 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Its belicheat on this broad. Sour grapes make a bitter wine or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanatablues Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Sigh. Yeah, all good points but you can't draft a coach or pick one up in FA ... the team has never paid top $$$ for coaches/GM. Not that there aren't alot of bad-to-average, overpaid coaches out there also. I believe that RW was willing to give it a shot a few years ago when he gave Donahoe the reins to the team ... that turned out so poorly, it just kinda feels like he's given up shooting for a championship and is willing to settle for good. And if your goal is simply respectability, your chances of achieving it as reasonable; your chances of winning the SuperBowl are nil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I keep reading on here about how what the team really needs is this or that. If we had Kurt Warner, we'd be in the playoffs. If we didn't trade for JP, we could have Bob Sanders. If we had "difference makers," maybe we'd have a chance. YOU GUYS WILL NEVER GET IT. Look at our favorite division rival, the Patriots. They lost THE BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE in week one and substituted him with A GUY WHO HASN'T STARTED SINCE HIGH SCHOOL. They lost their first rd rb and beat us with BenJarvus Green Ellis. People say that great players can overcome poor coaching but not vice versa. NO. ITS THE EXACT OPPOSITE. If some of you claim that Jim Leonhard has become a "difference maker," then you're just wrong. He's the same guy he was here. You guys would be surprised to see how big of difference makers Lynch, Trent, Lee, Roscoe, Leodis, Poz, Stroud, Mitchell, Jackson, Greer, and Whitner are. Give us Bill Belichick and I bet we're pretty damn near close playing last sunday. They made it to 11-5 with Cassel and Ellis as their studs. They won in the past with Troy Brown as the #1 WR. They went 11-5 after one of their main difference makers, Asante Samuel, left. Get a clue. If anything, we're really good at drafting difference makers. Not too many teams have picked up Mckelvin, Lynch, Posluszny, etc in the past 2 years. Maybe YOU don't get it. Great coaching vs great talent is a debate that will never end. The real answer is you need BOTH! Belicheat wasn't a great coach until Bledsoe got hurt. Bill Parcels won two championships with the Giants and zero championships with the Pats, Jets and Cowboys. Did he become a weaker coach? Or did he not have the same talent? Cowher took years and years to win a Super Bowl. Tomlin took only 2 years. Better coach? Who knows? Vermeil didn't win with Philly or KC, but he did win one with St. Louis. Jimmy Johnson won three championships with Dallas and none with Miami. In the meantime, Switzer won one with JJ's team in Dallas. I can go on and on. There is no clear cut answer. But you do need a little bit of both and I hate to quote DJ but you need some luck on your side as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Maybe YOU don't get it. Great coaching vs great talent is a debate that will never end. The real answer is you need BOTH! Belicheat wasn't a great coach until Bledsoe got hurt. Bill Parcels won two championships with the Giants and zero championships with the Pats, Jets and Cowboys. Did he become a weaker coach? Or did he not have the same talent. Cowher took years and years to win a Super Bowl. Tomlin took only 2 years. Better coach? Who knows? Vermeil didn't win with Philly or KC, but he did win one with St. Louis. Jimmy Johnson won three championships with Dallas and none with Miami. In the meantime, Switzer won one with JJ's team in Dallas. I can go on and on. There is no clear cut answer. But you do need a little bit of both and I hate to quote DJ but you need some luck on your side as well. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOOBY Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Mix luck, talent, health and good coaching & I'll show you a near SB winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 ..and IF we didn't skip on Tom Brady 6 times, we could be world beaters. we can play this stupid what-if game all day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Here's an interesting question. Name ONE head coach that won Super Bowls with two different teams? Now name me at least one player that won championships on multiple teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Here's an interesting question. Name ONE head coach that won Super Bowls with two different teams? Now name me at least one player that won championships on multiple teams? can't think of the coach one, but adam vinatieri pops into mind for the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I keep reading on here about how what the team really needs is this or that. If we had Kurt Warner, we'd be in the playoffs. If we didn't trade for JP, we could have Bob Sanders. If we had "difference makers," maybe we'd have a chance. YOU GUYS WILL NEVER GET IT. Look at our favorite division rival, the Patriots. They lost THE BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE in week one and substituted him with A GUY WHO HASN'T STARTED SINCE HIGH SCHOOL. They lost their first rd rb and beat us with BenJarvus Green Ellis. People say that great players can overcome poor coaching but not vice versa. NO. ITS THE EXACT OPPOSITE. If some of you claim that Jim Leonhard has become a "difference maker," then you're just wrong. He's the same guy he was here. You guys would be surprised to see how big of difference makers Lynch, Trent, Lee, Roscoe, Leodis, Poz, Stroud, Mitchell, Jackson, Greer, and Whitner are. Give us Bill Belichick and I bet we're pretty damn near close playing last sunday. They made it to 11-5 with Cassel and Ellis as their studs. They won in the past with Troy Brown as the #1 WR. They went 11-5 after one of their main difference makers, Asante Samuel, left. Get a clue. If anything, we're really good at drafting difference makers.Not too many teams have picked up Mckelvin, Lynch, Posluszny, etc in the past 2 years. First off, as quick as you are to criticize others and the knowledge you have, why aren't you a GM in the NFL?-See BOLD There are just as many success stories with questionable coaching as there are with questionable players and great coaches. San Diego was in the AFC Championship Game, and if you are saying that Norv Turner is great and he has no players, I take that back about you being a GM. Marv Levy was never much more than a good Special Teams coach in the NFL until he got to Buffalo. The only real success he had as a head coach was in the CFL. As far as the Bills playing sunday if Belicheat was our coach? Now that is a fantasy. What would he be able to do to add 5-6 wins to our record? Maybe put some stickum on JP's hands so he didn't fumble, hold the ball for Lindell on the kicks he missed at the end of games (Cleveland) that might have won it for us? Maybe stand next to Jason Peters and help him block so he doesn't give up a league leading number of sacks? Maybe let him get behind center so he won't make the abundance of bad judgment throws that both of our quarterbacks made? Not too many teams have picked up Mckelvin, Lynch, Posluszny, etc in the past 2 years.[/i] -? How can they pick up a player that is already on a roster? I guess I will use your phrase-GET A CLUE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 can't think of the coach one, but adam vinatieri pops into mind for the second. Exactly right. As a matter of fact, no head coach has EVER won a championship with two different teams. EVER. Charles Haley and Deion Sanders are a couple more examples of guys that won SB's with different teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson from Gamehendge Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Here's an interesting question. Name ONE head coach that won Super Bowls with two different teams? No Head Coach Won a Super Bowl with 2 different teams, BUT 5 have led 2 different teams to the Super Bowl. Don Shula, Colts & Miami Bill Parcells, Giants & Patriots Dick Vermeil, Eagles & Rams Dan Reeves, Broncos & Falcons Mike Holmgren, Packers & Seahawks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I keep reading on here about how what the team really needs is this or that. If we had Kurt Warner, we'd be in the playoffs. If we didn't trade for JP, we could have Bob Sanders. If we had "difference makers," maybe we'd have a chance. YOU GUYS WILL NEVER GET IT. Look at our favorite division rival, the Patriots. They lost THE BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE in week one and substituted him with A GUY WHO HASN'T STARTED SINCE HIGH SCHOOL. They lost their first rd rb and beat us with BenJarvus Green Ellis. People say that great players can overcome poor coaching but not vice versa. NO. ITS THE EXACT OPPOSITE. If some of you claim that Jim Leonhard has become a "difference maker," then you're just wrong. He's the same guy he was here. You guys would be surprised to see how big of difference makers Lynch, Trent, Lee, Roscoe, Leodis, Poz, Stroud, Mitchell, Jackson, Greer, and Whitner are. Give us Bill Belichick and I bet we're pretty damn near close playing last sunday. They made it to 11-5 with Cassel and Ellis as their studs. They won in the past with Troy Brown as the #1 WR. They went 11-5 after one of their main difference makers, Asante Samuel, left. Get a clue. If anything, we're really good at drafting difference makers. Not too many teams have picked up Mckelvin, Lynch, Posluszny, etc in the past 2 years. Good points and fair argument...but if it is as cut and dry as that, why didnt Bellicheat have any success in Cleveland? You left something out too about NE...Brady...Good QB's make average WR's into good WR's...look at McNabb...he wins and produces with no help at WR... As far as your points on Cassel...he was in NE for a reason...the kid has talent and there was a reason NE didnt go out and maintain a backup QB that had experience. As smart as Bellicheat is, do you honestly think they would have kept a backup QB with no starting experience since high school as his #2 unless he hadnt been showing he could run this offense in practice and the offseason? Heck, a few seasons ago, fans were so enamored with what Cassel did in the preseason people started wondering if NE should trade Brady after he had an ok season the year before...absurd grumbles of course and that was all squashed of course when Brady came out and had a great season, but it doesnt dismiss the flash of potentail Cassel had shown. Everyone likes to point out his lack of starting in college and play up Bellicheat on this, but the kid can play. Look at Warner...he worked in a grocery store and played in Arena league...Did he have success because Vermiel is a genius or because he could play some ball? Players come out of nowhere to have success all the time. The truth is, the OVERALL talent in NE has been great. They build on players who fit there system better than any team in the league, and that has a lot to do with the GM too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 By the way... St Louis was dead last in the league...Warner steps in and they win the Super Bowl...it was essentially the same team, except for Warner... AZ has been a league wide doormat its entire existence...In comes Warner and they are in the Super Bowl with the same offensive players they have had essentially... Dont underestimate the value of a quarterback on the success of a franchise. There is a reason they get all the credit and all the blame...because they impact the game that much. We have enough talent on this team to win, and if you take Warner off AZ, we are more talented then them as a whole. You cant win in this league with poor QB production UNLESS you have a dominant D like a Titans, Balt, or Pitt level D that will also score you points and keep the score low. Otherwise, you are screwed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Maybe YOU don't get it. Great coaching vs great talent is a debate that will never end. The real answer is you need BOTH! Belicheat wasn't a great coach until Bledsoe got hurt. Bill Parcels won two championships with the Giants and zero championships with the Pats, Jets and Cowboys. Did he become a weaker coach? Or did he not have the same talent? Cowher took years and years to win a Super Bowl. Tomlin took only 2 years. Better coach? Who knows? Vermeil didn't win with Philly or KC, but he did win one with St. Louis. Jimmy Johnson won three championships with Dallas and none with Miami. In the meantime, Switzer won one with JJ's team in Dallas. I can go on and on. There is no clear cut answer. But you do need a little bit of both and I hate to quote DJ but you need some luck on your side as well. Ok Ok I get it, you need a good coach and good players. But what I dont get is why the Bills cant seem to get either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Maybe YOU don't get it. Great coaching vs great talent is a debate that will never end. The real answer is you need BOTH! Belicheat wasn't a great coach until Bledsoe got hurt. Bill Parcels won two championships with the Giants and zero championships with the Pats, Jets and Cowboys. Did he become a weaker coach? Or did he not have the same talent? Cowher took years and years to win a Super Bowl. Tomlin took only 2 years. Better coach? Who knows? Vermeil didn't win with Philly or KC, but he did win one with St. Louis. Jimmy Johnson won three championships with Dallas and none with Miami. In the meantime, Switzer won one with JJ's team in Dallas. I can go on and on. There is no clear cut answer. But you do need a little bit of both and I hate to quote DJ but you need some luck on your side as well. --and pete carrol was a lousy coach until he got away from the wooden indian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 By the way... St Louis was dead last in the league...Warner steps in and they win the Super Bowl...it was essentially the same team, except for Warner... AZ has been a league wide doormat its entire existence...In comes Warner and they are in the Super Bowl with the same offensive players they have had essentially... Dont underestimate the value of a quarterback on the success of a franchise. There is a reason they get all the credit and all the blame...because they impact the game that much. We have enough talent on this team to win, and if you take Warner off AZ, we are more talented then them as a whole. You cant win in this league with poor QB production UNLESS you have a dominant D like a Titans, Balt, or Pitt level D that will also score you points and keep the score low. Otherwise, you are screwed... Quite possibly the funniest thing I have read all year. Fitzgerald>>>Evans, Boldin>>>>>>>>The rest of our WRs combined. Levi Brown>Walker, Docket>> Our D Line, Dansby>Poz, A. Wilson>>>Whitner, Whoever their Center and TEs are>>>>Our C and TEs. Cromartie>McKelvin...its really too early to call, but he played in the SB, and not because the guy infront of him on the depth chart was injured. Mike Gandy sucks, but he is a former Bill.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 By the way... St Louis was dead last in the league...Warner steps in and they win the Super Bowl...it was essentially the same team, except for Warner... AZ has been a league wide doormat its entire existence...In comes Warner and they are in the Super Bowl with the same offensive players they have had essentially... Dont underestimate the value of a quarterback on the success of a franchise. There is a reason they get all the credit and all the blame...because they impact the game that much. We have enough talent on this team to win, and if you take Warner off AZ, we are more talented then them as a whole. You cant win in this league with poor QB production UNLESS you have a dominant D like a Titans, Balt, or Pitt level D that will also score you points and keep the score low. Otherwise, you are screwed... o stop it...our D couldnt stop the UB Dental School intramural team from scoring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyDingo Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Maybe YOU don't get it. Great coaching vs great talent is a debate that will never end. The real answer is you need BOTH! Belicheat wasn't a great coach until Bledsoe got hurt. What he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 can't think of the coach one, but adam vinatieri pops into mind for the second. Weeb Ewbank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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