Poeticlaw Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 I was reviewing some past articles one where the were talking about drafting Big mike williamms to make our line the heavist in the NFL. Then it got me thinking we have been mentioned several times over previous seasons as either haveing thee heaviest or one of the heaviest lines in the NFL. Having a heavy line is great if you are going to utilize a power running game which we seem to get awy form more often than not. Having to heavy of a line means the pass protection isnt going to be as good which is probably why all our QBS since Kelly have beem failing miserably. ( just noting the posibility not stating the QBS have been elite or anything) It seems in review that its better to have lighter more nimble line man that can play both the run and the Pass. It seems if they were a little lighter the could be a little quicker on the feet to get underneath in the pass rush which we have been destroyed of on many occasions. So my question to the fan base is it possible that our line is too heavy to play both pass and RUN?
Wooderson Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 I think it certainly is something to consider. Our line being so big, it makes it that much more difficult to fire off the ball quickly. For example, if our linemen can't get to the hole faster than the LB reads the play, then it could be a serious problem for the play.
Long Time Fan Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 One more problem with too heavy a OL, is that they cannot pull and trap on any run going wide or around the ends, they just are to slow to get there to lead the play.
Dan Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 The problem is not the size of the line, but how the game plan is designed around that line. Our brilliant staff have put together one of the largest offensive lines in football, yet they insist on running an offense designed for a small, quick group of linemen. So, the question is... will we get new linemen, will we change our offense to a power run/ball control offense, or will we continue to fuddle around reading football for dummies?
DrFishfinder Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 The problem is not the size of the line, but how the game plan is designed around that line. Our brilliant staff have put together one of the largest offensive lines in football, yet they insist on running an offense designed for a small, quick group of linemen. So, the question is... will we get new linemen, will we change our offense to a power run/ball control offense, or will we continue to fuddle around reading football for dummies? Kind of difficult to design a game plan around huge, ponderous blobs that can't run block, pass block or pick up blitzes. .....OK, that was a little harsh. Actually the OL played better towards the end of the season, especially pass blocking and blitz pickups. But rarely did the the RB's and the OL seem to be in sync in the running game, the operative word being "seem". Maybe it's me, but it appeared that Lynch got over 1k yds in spite of the OL, not because of them. I dunno.... after Jauron got his stay of execution, I'm bitching about everything. Hrmph.
Adam Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Size doesn't matter so much as explosiveness- the ability to fire out of ones stance and into the opposition. We are particularly weak at center and right tackle and could use upgrades at guard. The days of being able to fall forward and push people out of the way are over. I'd prefer to go to smaller, athletic OL's capable of zone blocking. The NG's in our division are a bit much for one guy to handle- those centers are hard to find. I think combo blocking would work better
Dan Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Kind of difficult to design a game plan around huge, ponderous blobs that can't run block, pass block or pick up blitzes. .....OK, that was a little harsh. Actually the OL played better towards the end of the season, especially pass blocking and blitz pickups. But rarely did the the RB's and the OL seem to be in sync in the running game, the operative word being "seem". Maybe it's me, but it appeared that Lynch got over 1k yds in spite of the OL, not because of them. I dunno.... after Jauron got his stay of execution, I'm bitching about everything. Hrmph. I agree. Lynch definitely got his yards on his own. No doubt. I know it's unpopular, but IMO, the run game improved because Preston replaced Fowler. I'm not saying Preston should be our starter next season. I'm just suggesting that he seemed to be better than Fowler. Funny, but since Jauron got his stay of execution, I care much less about any of it. I have zero confidence that any player via the draft or FA will change a single thing. We'll still see a marginally competitive team that folds like a cheap suit in the tough games. Maybe I'm wrong, but until this teams proves otherwise, next season is something I'll watch but have no hopes for.
stuckincincy Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 So my question to the fan base is it possible that our line is too heavy to play both pass and RUN? That...or a QB who seems to look for the easiest out. Reliably.
BuffaloBill Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 I dunno.... after Jauron got his stay of execution, I'm bitching about everything. Hrmph. So are 99.9% of the rest of Bills Nation .... I'm right there with you but I am trying to turn my sights to a new season we are 0-0 so farso Jauron gets to .500 ball for now.
Armchair GM Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 That...or a QB who seems to look for the easiest out. Reliably. Obviously there is room for improvement. However, I'd have to disagree that our OL is too heavy. More times than not, Edwards had ALL DAY to throw, and absolutely NO running back, excluded Barry Sanders, gains 1K on "his own." The way I see it, the answers are right in front of us. Kirk Chambers proved, IMO, the he deserves a shot to start at RT. Peters, however you look at him, should be signed to an extension...2 straight Pro Bowl elections, by players and coaches which says more than fan balloting. Walker and Butler are solid G's and Bell is a work in progress that will contribute in '09...he did spend pretty much all of '08 in the weight room. All of this is why I can't see going after a C in Rd.1 or 2. C is the most cerebral off all of the line and we don;t have time for a young guy to come in and develop. Duke should be resigned as a back up and Matt Birk should be pursued, if not stalked, in FA. That with a late round selection of another C, for development, is the way to go.
DrFishfinder Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 I agree. Lynch definitely got his yards on his own. No doubt. I know it's unpopular, but IMO, the run game improved because Preston replaced Fowler. I'm not saying Preston should be our starter next season. I'm just suggesting that he seemed to be better than Fowler. Funny, but since Jauron got his stay of execution, I care much less about any of it. I have zero confidence that any player via the draft or FA will change a single thing. We'll still see a marginally competitive team that folds like a cheap suit in the tough games. Maybe I'm wrong, but until this teams proves otherwise, next season is something I'll watch but have no hopes for. You could be right about Preston. After the great 2008 nose-dive, I watched games mostly out of morbid fascination. Well...that and the fact that I can sit out on the back patio with the laptop, high speed wireless and a batch of cigars to do my part at eroding what's left of the ozone layer. Unless Jauron goes through some magical transformation from whateverthehell he is now, to an actual competent NFL head coach, I think our best hope is that the Bills are 1-7 or 2-6 by mid season and Ralph has to replace him.
DrFishfinder Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 So are 99.9% of the rest of Bills Nation .... I'm right there with you but I am trying to turn my sights to a new season we are 0-0 so farso Jauron gets to .500 ball for now. Pssst........Jauron hasn't gotten to ".500 ball" in three seasons. I give you credit for your optimisim, though. My rose colored glasses broke. "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst" somebody
Trader Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 Kind of difficult to design a game plan around huge, ponderous blobs that can't run block, pass block or pick up blitzes. .....OK, that was a little harsh. Actually the OL played better towards the end of the season, especially pass blocking and blitz pickups. But rarely did the the RB's and the OL seem to be in sync in the running game, the operative word being "seem". Maybe it's me, but it appeared that Lynch got over 1k yds in spite of the OL, not because of them. I dunno.... after Jauron got his stay of execution, I'm bitching about everything. Hrmph. Our linemen do not seem to have any pop. I don't think they are big I don't think they are athletic enough or strong enough or conditioned enough maybe just too fat.
Fingon Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 we were top 10 in rushing in the last 8 games... so i say no.
kanatablues Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 Obviously there is room for improvement. However, I'd have to disagree that our OL is too heavy. More times than not, Edwards had ALL DAY to throw, and absolutely NO running back, excluded Barry Sanders, gains 1K on "his own." The way I see it, the answers are right in front of us. Kirk Chambers proved, IMO, the he deserves a shot to start at RT. Peters, however you look at him, should be signed to an extension...2 straight Pro Bowl elections, by players and coaches which says more than fan balloting. Walker and Butler are solid G's and Bell is a work in progress that will contribute in '09...he did spend pretty much all of '08 in the weight room. All of this is why I can't see going after a C in Rd.1 or 2. C is the most cerebral off all of the line and we don;t have time for a young guy to come in and develop. Duke should be resigned as a back up and Matt Birk should be pursued, if not stalked, in FA. That with a late round selection of another C, for development, is the way to go. Hilarious, stalking ... I agree with pretty much all of this, it is pretty much what I've been saying. Birk is a vet who won't put up with any crap, perhaps he can get Dock to play up to his contract again. Peters biggest asset is his speed and footwork, despite his size ... I like our line. There were some issues with the running game mid-season but I think they started to straighten them out, part was the line and playcalling but some also belonged to 23 ... he seemed to dance and not his the holes quickly enough. Run blocking is much easier than pass blocking ... our OC was a rook too, I expect much more out of our offense next year. Lol, I hope experience will make a difference, because I'm not sure they'll be doing much to help the offense in FA or the draft. Last point, this is a deep year for centers in this draft, yeah everyone loves Mack but it'd be better to pick up a center later and have them learn under Birk ... there's no way a talented rook center steps in and does a better job than even an average vet center. Mangold wasn't very good his first few years.
Tcali Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 Kind of difficult to design a game plan around huge, ponderous blobs that can't run block, pass block or pick up blitzes. .....OK, that was a little harsh. Actually the OL played better towards the end of the season, especially pass blocking and blitz pickups. But rarely did the the RB's and the OL seem to be in sync in the running game, the operative word being "seem". Maybe it's me, but it appeared that Lynch got over 1k yds in spite of the OL, not because of them. I dunno.... after Jauron got his stay of execution, I'm bitching about everything. Hrmph. yeah our O line did play better toward the end of the season...so there is SOME hope there.
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 I agree. Lynch definitely got his yards on his own. No doubt. I know it's unpopular, but IMO, the run game improved because Preston replaced Fowler. I'm not saying Preston should be our starter next season. I'm just suggesting that he seemed to be better than Fowler. I hope the Bills brain trust doesn't even bother talking to Fowler or Preston and lets them just slip on down the chute and out of the league via free agency. The running game got better when Butler got healthier and had 2 working legs to stand on. If Butler hadn't been helping Preston out much of the year, Edwards would've been in a body bag.
JPicc2114 Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 Heavy O lines are usually good at passblocking but they lack the speed to get down field in run blocking and being able to pull effectively.
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