Biggest Difference Between Bills and 09 Super Bowl Teams

[thewildrabbit]

I love how you pick out losses that had our BACKUP QB in that everyone hates and then blame the coaching staff for the loss...Our loss to SF had nothing to do with coaching...we couldnt move the ball with our lame duck QB...

 

The amazing refusal to aknowledge our clear LACK of production at QB is astonishing...geezus...

What is astonishing is your lack of intelligence! Are you serious? How can you NOT blame the coaching for that loss against the 49ers? Marshawn Lynch had 134 yards rushing up to the 3rd QTR and the genius coaching staff used him ONE TIME in the 4th QTR and had the BACK QB constantly throw instead.The Bills were down by 7 pts and it might as well have been 30 the way they kept calling pass plays.

 

So you blame the QB and not the coaches because even though SF was dropping 6 into coverage every play and wasn't even bothering to stack against the run and the bills just kept trying to throw the ball with a back up QB in the game!!!

 

Another Losman hater who blames him for everything...

[Alphadawg7]

Good Lord....did any of you watch any of the first 4 games this season?

 

Trent had a slump that he couldn't shake out of in the middle of the season...ok, fine. But he took the team on a game-winning drive against Oakland, brought the team back from behind against the Rams, and led a game-winning drive and threw a game-winning TD against Jacksonville. He has it, if you ask me. QB is not the problem right now.

 

Coaching is the biggest difference. Both plays that Whisenhunt challenged & won would have never been challenged by Jauron.

 

You mean the first 4 games where he never once threw for more than 1 TD in any game? You mean the Rams game and Raiders game where he had an 80 and 81 passer rating?

 

Why do you Trent lovers put those 4 games out there as some amazing performance and then also ignore the rest of the year too?

 

Trent Facts to kill the MYTHS:

 

1. Only passed for MORE than 1 TD ONCE in 2008 and it was against one of the absolute worst D's in the league in KC and he thrwe a whopping 2 TD's. On top of that he has only passed for more than 1 TD 3 times in his 24 game career...in fact, he has more games with ZERO TD's than he does with more than 1...

 

2. Passed for LESS than 200 yards 6 times in 08, and thats not counting the AZ game as he got hurt on first drive...in his career he has only passed for more than 200 yards 8 times in 24 games...

 

3. NEVER passed for over 300 yards EVER in his ENTIRE career...

 

4. Struggled in 2008 to get wins against Oak, St. Louis, and Jax (3 of our 7 wins) which were bottom feeders in the NFL and took late game come backs once those teams stopped bringing pressure. 2 of those wins the Bills were bailed out by other players, not Trent, yet Trent gets the credit...

 

5. He had a four game stretch agaisnt Cle, Mia, Jets, and NE where his QB rating was 50, 67, 79, and 49 respectively including 8 INT's and 5 fumbles to only 3 TD's...so if you are going to put so MUCH emphasis on the first 4 games (where he only had 2 decent games, and none were great) why do you choose to ignore this 4 game stretch...

 

6. Trent has played 24 games...let me say again, TWENTY FOUR games...NOT FOUR...so why on earth do the Trent lovers focus on ONE four game stretch where he never passed for more than 1 TD, played agaisnt 4 of the worst teams and defenses in the league, and struggled bad in 2 of the games (Rams and Raiders)?

 

And dont even get me started on JP this year...

 

So, anyone who refuses to aknowledge that the MAIN reason we are not in the playoffs in 2008 is anything but the QB has blinders on. DJ is not the main reason we are not in the playoffs...the combined play of JP AND TRENT are the reason we are not in the playoffs...

 

You are even MORE delusional if you dont think Buffalo has a major question mark at QB either...Trent may develop into a good one some day, but he is definitely not there now and UNTIL then we wont be much of a force in this league unless our D some how morphs into the Balt, Steeler, or Titan defense over night...

[Alphadawg7]

What is astonishing is your lack of intelligence! Are you serious? How can you NOT blame the coaching for that loss against the 49ers? Marshawn Lynch had 134 yards rushing up to the 3rd QTR and the genius coaching staff used him ONE TIME in the 4th QTR and had the BACK QB constantly throw instead.The Bills were down by 7 pts and it might as well have been 30 the way they kept calling pass plays.

 

So you blame the QB and not the coaches because even though SF was dropping 6 into coverage every play and wasn't even bothering to stack against the run and the bills just kept trying to throw the ball with a back up QB in the game!!!

 

Another Losman hater who blames him for everything...

 

First off, I was a Losman supporter and even wanted to see him get a chance when Trent was stinking the field up...then he did and played even worse...

 

Second, I just have two questions for you genius...how many points did Buffalo have against that weak SF team in the first 3 quarters where Lynch had amassed 134 yards? Was Bufalo ahead or Behind?

 

Answers: NADA>>>we couldnt score crap even with Lynch running...POINTS win games, not rushing yards...oh, and we were behind in the fourth quarter and couldnt get in the endzone all day running...so they went a different direction to try and get our offense moving again and conserve game time because we were BEHIND and hadnt done a damn thing all day offensively...

 

We should have been up 21 points on that horrid team, but because we had HORRID play from our QB and offense we couldnt get in the game...

 

Oh and before you go out and question others intelligence, do your homework first...Lynch had 2 long carries, including a 50 yarder...take those 2 plays that got us NO TD's away...and he was having a OK day...the 134 yards are VERY misleading...our run game was no where near as effective as his yardage total indicates which is why we didnt score ANY TOUCHDOWNS genius!

[billsfreak]

WINS!

[BuffaloWings]

So, anyone who refuses to aknowledge that the MAIN reason we are not in the playoffs in 2008 is anything but the QB has blinders on. DJ is not the main reason we are not in the playoffs...the combined play of JP AND TRENT are the reason we are not in the playoffs...

 

You are even MORE delusional if you dont think Buffalo has a major question mark at QB either...Trent may develop into a good one some day, but he is definitely not there now and UNTIL then we wont be much of a force in this league unless our D some how morphs into the Balt, Steeler, or Titan defense over night...

You make a good argument as to why the QB play this year led to our downfall. Fine, I can accept that.

 

But are you suggesting that we dump Edwards because his slump led to more conservative play-calling, which led to his decreased confidence, which led to his poor play? I'm not anointing Trent as the next Joe Montana (not even close), but you're ready to give up on him after a year-plus?

[Alphadawg7]

WINS!

 

OMG, how pathetic...

 

LOSSES! You know his other 4 game stretch you want to ignore...

 

By your ridiculous logic you can say Kelsay is a top DE in this league becaue he started in those famous 4 wins to start the season...

[Alphadawg7]

You make a good argument as to why the QB play this year led to our downfall. Fine, I can accept that.

 

But are you suggesting that we dump Edwards because his slump led to more conservative play-calling, which led to his decreased confidence, which led to his poor play? I'm not anointing Trent as the next Joe Montana (not even close), but you're ready to give up on him after a year-plus?

 

By no means am I condemning Trents future, I am referring to the constant cries that Trent has not been the problem to this point and its all on DJ. Trent may develop, but his overall body of work is weak and he has lots of qustion marks. Our struggles are a bigger result of the play from the QB over the last 2 years than coaching. In fact, DJ's 7-9 record in 2007 is considered to be one of the best coaching jobs that year given the injuries, QB problems, rookie QB, etc.

 

The fact that DJ was able to get 14 wins in his last two seasons with a QB who has thrown for more than 1 TD just a measly 3 times in 24 games, has more 0 TD games than multi TD games, never passed for over 300 yards, and has only amassed 8 games of even 200 yards of passing out of his 24 games is a bigger accomplishment than the fans give him credit for. And that is because they are hung up on their man crush with a QB's potential and they ignore his actual in game performance. Thats not even factoring the massive amounts of injuries this team has gone through at critical positioins, including QB where the backup QB played even worse...

 

Will Trent develop? Who knows...I hope so if he is our guy...but the failure to recognize his struggles in his first 2 seasons is just insane to me. I know young QB's struggle, so I am not blaming him for struggling, its expected, but that doesnt change the fact that his struggles directly affect the success of this franchise and until he develops this team will never be better than mediocre.

[cale]

I'd say the biggest difference was coaching. But IMHO Tomlin almost lost that game for the Steelers. I thought Whisenhunt outcoached Tomlin. But the biggest difference in my opinion is that Steelers had more playmakers. The list includes but not limited to Roth-berger, Holmes and Harrison. Even a gimpy Ward made some plays.

 

Which brings me to the Bills. I think on every team there are role players and playmakers. We ask our role players to be playmakers.

 

I think our bona fide playmakers are Evans, Lynch and McKelvin. You can make a case for Freddie Jackson too I think. But I look at our D and I just don't see enough or any playmakers. McKelvin maybe - but he definitely needs seasoning on defense. As a ST I think he is a stand out.

 

As a footnote, I thought Stroud in the first game was going to be our defensive playmaker - then he fizzled out a little bit.

 

C

[Alphadawg7]

You mean the first 4 games where he never once threw for more than 1 TD in any game? You mean the Rams game and Raiders game where he had an 80 and 81 passer rating?

 

Why do you Trent lovers put those 4 games out there as some amazing performance and then also ignore the rest of the year too?

 

Trent Facts to kill the MYTHS:

 

1. Only passed for MORE than 1 TD ONCE in 2008 and it was against one of the absolute worst D's in the league in KC and he thrwe a whopping 2 TD's. On top of that he has only passed for more than 1 TD 3 times in his 24 game career...in fact, he has more games with ZERO TD's than he does with more than 1...

 

2. Passed for LESS than 200 yards 6 times in 08, and thats not counting the AZ game as he got hurt on first drive...in his career he has only passed for more than 200 yards 8 times in 24 games...

 

3. NEVER passed for over 300 yards EVER in his ENTIRE career...

 

4. Struggled in 2008 to get wins against Oak, St. Louis, and Jax (3 of our 7 wins) which were bottom feeders in the NFL and took late game come backs once those teams stopped bringing pressure. 2 of those wins the Bills were bailed out by other players, not Trent, yet Trent gets the credit...

 

5. He had a four game stretch agaisnt Cle, Mia, Jets, and NE where his QB rating was 50, 67, 79, and 49 respectively including 8 INT's and 5 fumbles to only 3 TD's...so if you are going to put so MUCH emphasis on the first 4 games (where he only had 2 decent games, and none were great) why do you choose to ignore this 4 game stretch...

 

6. Trent has played 24 games...let me say again, TWENTY FOUR games...NOT FOUR...so why on earth do the Trent lovers focus on ONE four game stretch where he never passed for more than 1 TD, played agaisnt 4 of the worst teams and defenses in the league, and struggled bad in 2 of the games (Rams and Raiders)?

 

And dont even get me started on JP this year...

 

So, anyone who refuses to aknowledge that the MAIN reason we are not in the playoffs in 2008 is anything but the QB has blinders on. DJ is not the main reason we are not in the playoffs...the combined play of JP AND TRENT are the reason we are not in the playoffs...

 

You are even MORE delusional if you dont think Buffalo has a major question mark at QB either...Trent may develop into a good one some day, but he is definitely not there now and UNTIL then we wont be much of a force in this league unless our D some how morphs into the Balt, Steeler, or Titan defense over night...

 

And just so its clear...this post here that I put up is not saying Trent cant get better and we should dump him, I am addressing the reason why in 2007 and 2008 we did not make the playoffs which is the point of this thread. Most people complain DJ lost us two specific games...well at 9-7 we still miss playoffs.

 

With better QB play, we win those same 2 games against SF and Jets and also beat Mia, Cle, and likely NE...that gives us 11 or 12 wins and we make the playoffs (two of those games was against Mia and NE, so 11 wins would have gotten us in unlike what happened to NE this year when they tied).

[PushthePile]

You mean the first 4 games where he never once threw for more than 1 TD in any game? You mean the Rams game and Raiders game where he had an 80 and 81 passer rating?

 

Why do you Trent lovers put those 4 games out there as some amazing performance and then also ignore the rest of the year too?

 

Trent Facts to kill the MYTHS:

 

1. Only passed for MORE than 1 TD ONCE in 2008 and it was against one of the absolute worst D's in the league in KC and he thrwe a whopping 2 TD's. On top of that he has only passed for more than 1 TD 3 times in his 24 game career...in fact, he has more games with ZERO TD's than he does with more than 1...

 

2. Passed for LESS than 200 yards 6 times in 08, and thats not counting the AZ game as he got hurt on first drive...in his career he has only passed for more than 200 yards 8 times in 24 games...

 

3. NEVER passed for over 300 yards EVER in his ENTIRE career...

 

4. Struggled in 2008 to get wins against Oak, St. Louis, and Jax (3 of our 7 wins) which were bottom feeders in the NFL and took late game come backs once those teams stopped bringing pressure. 2 of those wins the Bills were bailed out by other players, not Trent, yet Trent gets the credit...

 

5. He had a four game stretch agaisnt Cle, Mia, Jets, and NE where his QB rating was 50, 67, 79, and 49 respectively including 8 INT's and 5 fumbles to only 3 TD's...so if you are going to put so MUCH emphasis on the first 4 games (where he only had 2 decent games, and none were great) why do you choose to ignore this 4 game stretch...

 

6. Trent has played 24 games...let me say again, TWENTY FOUR games...NOT FOUR...so why on earth do the Trent lovers focus on ONE four game stretch where he never passed for more than 1 TD, played agaisnt 4 of the worst teams and defenses in the league, and struggled bad in 2 of the games (Rams and Raiders)?

 

And dont even get me started on JP this year...

 

So, anyone who refuses to aknowledge that the MAIN reason we are not in the playoffs in 2008 is anything but the QB has blinders on. DJ is not the main reason we are not in the playoffs...the combined play of JP AND TRENT are the reason we are not in the playoffs...

 

You are even MORE delusional if you dont think Buffalo has a major question mark at QB either...Trent may develop into a good one some day, but he is definitely not there now and UNTIL then we wont be much of a force in this league unless our D some how morphs into the Balt, Steeler, or Titan defense over night...

Outstanding post! Until a QB pans out, every coach in Buffalo is destined for failure. That's just how the NFL works. Jauron has made his share of mistakes but he's not getting much help either. The team's overall talent just magnifies any error. You watch these so-called geniuses and they make just as many bad calls. Every week the media has a field day frying 2 or 3 coachs. The difference is many teams can bail out their coach a few times a year.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I'm surprised only one person said experience. I went with coaching, but experience was a close second. We're a very very young team.

[Alphadawg7]

Outstanding post! Until a QB pans out, every coach in Buffalo is destined for failure. That's just how the NFL works. Jauron has made his share of mistakes but he's not getting much help either. The team's overall talent just magnifies any error. You watch these so-called geniuses and they make just as many bad calls. Every week the media has a field day frying 2 or 3 coachs. The difference is many teams can bail out their coach a few times a year.

 

Thanks...good follow up post you put up and couldnt agree more...

 

You are right, people seem to think somene like Tomlin would be our savior, but he made a lot of coaching blunders and is about as bad a game clock manager our staff has been. It all gets over looked or downplayed because his teams talent over comes them. All coaches make mistakes, even Bellicheat, but its your teams ability to overcome them that determines the magnitude of them.

 

Take the JP fumble in the Jets game for example...many call it a mistake even if JP doesnt fumble, however, if JP doesnt fumble this bad call is likely just a blurb or may not even EVER get mentioned. In fact, some probably call it a gutsy call by a good coach if it works...or the long FG attempt instead of trying to get a few more yards...if Lindell hits it, we hear very little about it...

 

The fact remains......there is no logical and unbiased argument that can be made that in 2008 would have us winning 5 more games than we did this year...that goes double for 2007. However, I can confidently say better QB play could easily resulted in 5 more wins (SF, CLE, JETS, MIA, and NE games) and the there is not denying that. The scary part is the only game we were never really in was the AZ game, you could easily make a case how better QB play could have easily won us any of the 8 other games...

[thewildrabbit]

First off, I was a Losman supporter and even wanted to see him get a chance when Trent was stinking the field up...then he did and played even worse...

 

Second, I just have two questions for you genius...how many points did Buffalo have against that weak SF team in the first 3 quarters where Lynch had amassed 134 yards? Was Bufalo ahead or Behind?

 

Answers: NADA>>>we couldnt score crap even with Lynch running...POINTS win games, not rushing yards...oh, and we were behind in the fourth quarter and couldnt get in the endzone all day running...so they went a different direction to try and get our offense moving again and conserve game time because we were BEHIND and hadnt done a damn thing all day offensively...

 

We should have been up 21 points on that horrid team, but because we had HORRID play from our QB and offense we couldnt get in the game...

 

Oh and before you go out and question others intelligence, do your homework first...Lynch had 2 long carries, including a 50 yarder...take those 2 plays that got us NO TD's away...and he was having a OK day...the 134 yards are VERY misleading...our run game was no where near as effective as his yardage total indicates which is why we didnt score ANY TOUCHDOWNS genius!

Do your homework, your dense and just love to argue on and on even though your arguments lack true substance.

FIRST,I said

What is astonishing is your lack of intelligence! Are you serious? How can you NOT blame the coaching for that loss against the 49ers? Marshawn Lynch had 134 yards rushing up to the 3rd QTR and the genius coaching staff used him ONE TIME in the 4th QTR and had the BACK QB constantly throw instead.The Bills were down by 7 pts and it might as well have been 30 the way they kept calling pass plays.

Did you miss this sentence with your amazing acumen?

 

Second, a different direction? What kind of sense does that make? Even a pee wee football coach can see if his team is running with authority and having trouble passing against stacked coverage you RUN THE BALL!

 

In the 4th QTR of that 49er game the COACHES made the idiotic decision to stop running the ball,even though they were averaging 6.2 yards per rush on the ground. I know Lynch had a big run on one play,still the the Bills were running with authority and the 49ers didn't even try and stack against the run all game long.

 

Lynch had a hot hand in that game and instead of pounding the ball they TRIED to force the backup QB to make plays,plain and simple. You can continue to blame Losman for that loss and that just shows your ignorance. ANY QB would have had trouble throwing into the pass coverage the 49ers used.

[thewildrabbit]

That 49er game:

Take away the 50 yard run for lynch and he still had 84 yards on 15 carries,that is still 5.6 yards per carry. Better rush AVG then the Bills have had all season and the coaches decide to completely stop running and rely on the back up QB to win the game, monumentally moronic IMO.

 

The Bills also had two drives of 15 plays or longer that produced zero points. The first drive, an 18-play, 85-yarder, ended when Lindell banked a 20-yard field goal attempt off the left upright.

 

The second, a 15-play, 75-yarder, ended when backup quarterback J.P. Losman, pressured by end Ray McDonald, threw an incompletion on fourth-and-2 from the 49ers 7 in the fourth quarter.

 

Anyone can argue that the QB lost that game,but to me its like forgetting to walk your dog and then blaming him for the crap on the carpet.If the OC remembers he has a 2nd string QB in there and realizes the 49ers are dropping more into pass coverage then he is sending receivers,then he should have continued to utilize Lynch over Losman.

[billsfreak]

OMG, how pathetic...

 

LOSSES! You know his other 4 game stretch you want to ignore...

 

By your ridiculous logic you can say Kelsay is a top DE in this league becaue he started in those famous 4 wins to start the season...

You are too quick to call someone else Pathetic-look in the mirror. My entry of "Wins" was in reply to the Topic-Difference between Bills and the 09 Super Bowl Teams, I wasn't getting involved in your little tiff of whether QB play was the reason we didn't make the playoffs. That isn't even what this thread is about. How pathetic!

[Alphadawg7]

You are too quick to call someone else Pathetic-look in the mirror. My entry of "Wins" was in reply to the Topic-Difference between Bills and the 09 Super Bowl Teams, I wasn't getting involved in your little tiff of whether QB play was the reason we didn't make the playoffs. That isn't even what this thread is about. How pathetic!

 

My apologies for misunderstanding your post...thought it was an obnoxious reply to the the previous thread posts...my bad

[Alphadawg7]

That 49er game:

Take away the 50 yard run for lynch and he still had 84 yards on 15 carries,that is still 5.6 yards per carry. Better rush AVG then the Bills have had all season and the coaches decide to completely stop running and rely on the back up QB to win the game, monumentally moronic IMO.

 

The Bills also had two drives of 15 plays or longer that produced zero points. The first drive, an 18-play, 85-yarder, ended when Lindell banked a 20-yard field goal attempt off the left upright.

 

The second, a 15-play, 75-yarder, ended when backup quarterback J.P. Losman, pressured by end Ray McDonald, threw an incompletion on fourth-and-2 from the 49ers 7 in the fourth quarter.

 

Anyone can argue that the QB lost that game,but to me its like forgetting to walk your dog and then blaming him for the crap on the carpet.If the OC remembers he has a 2nd string QB in there and realizes the 49ers are dropping more into pass coverage then he is sending receivers,then he should have continued to utilize Lynch over Losman.

 

First off, you sight several times in your post about how our back up QB did this and did that...funny, my point was with BETTER QB play we easily win this game.

 

You argue that we lose because we were down 7 and stopped running...so what...if we had a capable quarterback we are not trying to come back, we are likely up 21 points if you watch that game. So you can argue that with PERFECT coaching maybe we win this game and squeek it out, but with even AVERAGE QB play and production we win that game by a wide margin.

 

So in recap, you and the other guy who completely missed the point or my earlier post, are trying to argue that if we stick with the running game we maybe squeek out a 4th quarter comeback despite the fact we had produced no offensive TD's in the first 3 quarters relying on the running game. Fine, I will give you that as the SF D is not too good anyway...

 

However, the TRUE point of my post is that if we had a CAPABLE QB that game, we would NOT have to come back in the fourth quarter, we would not have multiple 15 play drives with NO points...in fact, if you watch the game we are likely up 14-21 points going into the 4th quarter...

 

Therefore, QB was a bigger factor in our loss than coaching! We were once again handicapped by an INCAPABLE QB who could not get the job done...

[thewildrabbit]

First off, you sight several times in your post about how our back up QB did this and did that...funny, my point was with BETTER QB play we easily win this game.

 

You argue that we lose because we were down 7 and stopped running...so what...if we had a capable quarterback we are not trying to come back, we are likely up 21 points if you watch that game. So you can argue that with PERFECT coaching maybe we win this game and squeek it out, but with even AVERAGE QB play and production we win that game by a wide margin.

 

So in recap, you and the other guy who completely missed the point or my earlier post, are trying to argue that if we stick with the running game we maybe squeek out a 4th quarter comeback despite the fact we had produced no offensive TD's in the first 3 quarters relying on the running game. Fine, I will give you that as the SF D is not too good anyway...

 

However, the TRUE point of my post is that if we had a CAPABLE QB that game, we would NOT have to come back in the fourth quarter, we would not have multiple 15 play drives with NO points...in fact, if you watch the game we are likely up 14-21 points going into the 4th quarter...

 

Therefore, QB was a bigger factor in our loss than coaching! We were once again handicapped by an INCAPABLE QB who could not get the job done...

And if and buts were raisins and nuts we would have Christmas every day, are you completely stupid or just like to keep arguing when you have no valid point. Schonert KNEW he had a backup QB in there and that didn't stop or slow his passing calls, he KNEW the running game was working better then it had all year and yet he still kept calling passing plays.

 

Any decent coach would have stopped calling pass plays and run the ball, how ineffective does the QB need to be before the coaching staff stops trying to throw against a stacked defensive secondary? The Bills had 38 passing plays in that game,sheer stupidity!

 

Like I stated earlier even a Pee Wee league coach would recognize that his QB is ineffective and run the ball more.

[thewildrabbit]

The patriots beat the Bills in the first game with a 4th string RB and a back up QB that hadn't played football since collage,that 4th string RB got over 100 yards rushing against the Bills.

 

Great coaches take whatever talent they have and find a way to utilize them to produce wins,like the Patriots do.

 

Turk Schonert tried to install a high powered passing offense and never backed off that even with a back up QB in the game.much to his and the Bills downfall.

 

Alphadawg, are you Turk Schonert ? or perhaps related to him somehow,otherwise I honestly don't understand your vigorous defense of the Bills moronic play caller. Look at the numbers on this board,most of them think it was the coaching that was at fault this season and not the ill prepared players.

[billsfreak]

My apologies for misunderstanding your post...thought it was an obnoxious reply to the the previous thread posts...my bad

No Biggie. As far as the 4-0 start, yeah it was fun, but I was about as confident as if we were 1-3. With the weak teams we played, and the teams history, I didn't read too much into it. 4 games does not make a season, not even close.