BuffaloBill Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I am not trying to judge anyone's standards just curious what other people think. My hunch is that as time has moved forward and life has changed we often come to think of what were once luxury items as necessities. For example, do you really need a TV to survive? (Much less flat panels in nearly every room and HD to boot.) Same can be said for the expansion of the concept of a "phone." Now might include landline, cell phone or smart phone and broadband. Point in all of this is that there are expenses associated with each of these luxury / necessity items. Would we be better off across the U.S. (or world) if people cut back their expectations some? or - Is progress and quality of life better served by an evolving mindset that accommodates the idea that what was once a luxury is now really a necessity? Don't get me wrong I'm not going to live with the Amish any time soon but I do believe we all get a skewed sense of reality because there is the tendency in our society to play keep up with the Jones (who are in turn trying to keep up with the Smiths, etc). What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 For me required items, laptop, internet, cell phone, gym membership, Sunday ticket Things that can be dropped: Phone Landline Easting out frequently Decreasing the Cable package. Sharing internet with the neighbor Gambling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I am not trying to judge anyone's standards just curious what other people think. My hunch is that as time has moved forward and life has changed we often come to think of what were once luxury items as necessities. For example, do you really need a TV to survive? (Much less flat panels in nearly every room and HD to boot.) Same can be said for the expansion of the concept of a "phone." Now might include landline, cell phone or smart phone and broadband. Point in all of this is that there are expenses associated with each of these luxury / necessity items. Would we be better off across the U.S. (or world) if people cut back their expectations some? or - Is progress and quality of life better served by an evolving mindset that accommodates the idea that what was once a luxury is now really a necessity? Don't get me wrong I'm not going to live with the Amish any time soon but I do believe we all get a skewed sense of reality because there is the tendency in our society to play keep up with the Jones (who are in turn trying to keep up with the Smiths, etc). What do you think? If you're doing it with your own money, no problem. Going into debt for those non-necessities is why we have problems. This includes buying a home, though of course almost everyone needs a loan for that. But requiring the 20% down payment, as it used to be, makes sure only those who know how to save and manage their money are getting into debt like that. Credit cards and easy home/car loans are the tools of the economic decline (in the very long term view). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millbank Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Mennonite and Amish lifestyle not so bad. I am not trying to judge anyone's standards just curious what other people think. My hunch is that as time has moved forward and life has changed we often come to think of what were once luxury items as necessities. For example, do you really need a TV to survive? (Much less flat panels in nearly every room and HD to boot.) Same can be said for the expansion of the concept of a "phone." Now might include landline, cell phone or smart phone and broadband. Point in all of this is that there are expenses associated with each of these luxury / necessity items. Would we be better off across the U.S. (or world) if people cut back their expectations some? or - Is progress and quality of life better served by an evolving mindset that accommodates the idea that what was once a luxury is now really a necessity? Don't get me wrong I'm not going to live with the Amish any time soon but I do believe we all get a skewed sense of reality because there is the tendency in our society to play keep up with the Jones (who are in turn trying to keep up with the Smiths, etc). What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 There's only two things in life that make it worth livin'. That's guitars that tune good and firm feelin' women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) Mennonite and Amish lifestyle not so bad. Not at all. Henry Thoreau stated in Walden Pond that clothing, shelter, heat, and food - are the only necessities. He was right. As Henry was prostrate in pain and dying, his brother asked him if he made peace with God. Henry, always the wit, replied "I never knew we were fighting"' Edited January 30, 2009 by stuckincincy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millbank Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 i will admit a bias regarding Mennonites From Jacobs Ladder, A Young man with a pad and pencil approached Jacob while he worked. "What are the most important things in life?" asked the youth eagerly. "The most important things in life are not things" said Jacob. "Okay so what do you hold dear?" Again the pencil was ready. "Not what, who," said Jacob. The young man scratched his head. "Are you saying that people are the most important things in life?" "No," said Jacob. What's most important is not to treat people as things." Not at all. Henry Thoreau stated in Walden Pond that clothing, shelter, heat, and food - are the only necessities. He was right. As Henry was prostrate in pain and dying, his brother asked him if he made peace with God. Henry, always the wit, replied "I never knew we were fighting"' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Henry Thoreau stated in Walden Pond that clothing, shelter, heat, and food - are the only necessities. Is that the one where the main character dies of dehydration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 For me required items, laptop, internet, cell phone, gym membership, Sunday ticket How did our ancestors ever survive without those necessities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 Mennonite and Amish lifestyle not so bad. I agree for some but like any lifestyle you hve to be accepting of it and if you did not grow up in it be prepared to embrace it fully. I hope nobody took my comment wrong I was just trying to say that I am not about to make some drastice change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 Credit cards and easy home/car loans are the tools of the economic decline (in the very long term view). Agree to a point but credit wisely used is not bad. My wife and I are fortunate because we carry only a mortgagage at this point. Pay off cards every month and pay cash for cars. Part of the reason for the post Is that I am well aware of people that make solid six figure incomes but are so leveraged they live paycheck to paycheck. My job has exposed me to this dynamic for 20 years. It is sad to think that people in these situations put themselves under significant stress due to their choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 How did our ancestors ever survive without those necessities? its an enigma to me. It was a response to what i would prefer to have to maintain my health and sanity in tough times. Everything else could be dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 its an enigma to me. It was a response to what i would prefer to have to maintain my health and sanity in tough times. Everything else could be dropped. Your list was: laptop, internet, cell phone, gym membership, Sunday ticket I guess it depends on the definition of "tough times" Laptop: what does a laptop provide that you absolutely need to find shelter, food, water, and heat? Internet: Before the intarweb people would jack off to porno videos, before that dirty magazines, before that people would find someone to have actual sex with Cell Phone: The telephone, which you stated you could do without a landline, was invented in the late 19th century. How did people survive before this wonderous invention? Gym Membership: You can do pushups, go out and run, or do various physical activities that will provide fitness Sunday ticket: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Agree to a point but credit wisely used is not bad. My wife and I are fortunate because we carry only a mortgagage at this point. Pay off cards every month and pay cash for cars. Part of the reason for the post Is that I am well aware of people that make solid six figure incomes but are so leveraged they live paycheck to paycheck. My job has exposed me to this dynamic for 20 years. It is sad to think that people in these situations put themselves under significant stress due to their choices. Yes, there are plenty of people that use CC's wisely. But really, the ones who use them that way generally don't really even NEED them, they're just convenient (I use mine for the "rewards", since I pay them off every month). Of course, if everyone used their cards that way, they wouldn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 Of course, if everyone used their cards that way, they wouldn't exist. Maybe but not automatic. Remember merchants pay a fee to the card also. May be 1% to 3% ddpending on volume. Perfect example was that I knew I was going to pay cash for my wife's car this year. I asked the dealer if I could put it on two cards to max out out reward points (my limits would easily have allowed for this). They would not do it because of the cost to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Maybe but not automatic. Remember merchants pay a fee to the card also. May be 1% to 3% ddpending on volume. Perfect example was that I knew I was going to pay cash for my wife's car this year. I asked the dealer if I could put it on two cards to max out out reward points (my limits would easily have allowed for this). They would not do it because of the cost to them. Yeah, but that doesn't even come close to what they make on interest. The fees wouldn't sustain the companies, and there would be so few of them all of these places wouldn't even accept credit cards on a standard basis. It would be a completely different lifestyle if debt wasn't such a normality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Your list was: laptop, internet, cell phone, gym membership, Sunday ticket I guess it depends on the definition of "tough times" Laptop: what does a laptop provide that you absolutely need to find shelter, food, water, and heat? Internet: Before the intarweb people would jack off to porno videos, before that dirty magazines, before that people would find someone to have actual sex with Cell Phone: The telephone, which you stated you could do without a landline, was invented in the late 19th century. How did people survive before this wonderous invention? Gym Membership: You can do pushups, go out and run, or do various physical activities that will provide fitness Sunday ticket: Assuming I am trying to get back on my feet Laptop/Internet: Job searches, craigslist, stock trading, printing resumes, etc Cell phone: Same as above, contact with friends and family, cheaper than a landline Gym Membership, I agree with you Sunday TicketL 1$/day for one of my passions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Yeah, but that doesn't even come close to what they make on interest. The fees wouldn't sustain the companies, and there would be so few of them all of these places wouldn't even accept credit cards on a standard basis. It would be a completely different lifestyle if debt wasn't such a normality. Trust me, they make tons of money on fees. 1-3% of EVERY transaction in the world. Businesses accept credit cards due to studies showing people will spend more money, more frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Trust me, they make tons of money on fees. 1-3% of EVERY transaction in the world. Businesses accept credit cards due to studies showing people will spend more money, more frequently. When gasoline prices were going crazy, I read an article about some stations refusing to take cards for that very reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 They would not do it because of the cost to them. If a company accepts credit cards, they can't give a discount for using cash. You could report them to the CC companies and they'd lose their right to accept cards in the future. Same thing for stores that require a minimum purchase. http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/cc/20010418a.asp How did our ancestors ever survive without those necessities? That's a little unfair, don't you think? Do you need a car? Our ancestors didn't have cars, so therefore you don't need one either, right? Times change, and so do requirements. If you're looking at a base necessity for living - then food, water, clothing, shelter are all you "need." But to "live" -- you need more. I will say that the Sunday Ticket necessity is a bit out there, but hey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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